This works?!
Honestly in a mirror match it’s all about knowing what your opponent is capable of since technically you can do it too. Mirror matches are definitely more about playing the player than it is the character.
Characters without fireballs - U1, Characters with fireballs - U2.
Characters that can get either:
Rufus-if you manage to make ex messiah whiff with a normal, u2 is a good punish that’ll reach when u1 wouldn’t at times. Otherwise you can punish all messiah kick follow ups with u1 and use it like you would against any other non-fireball character.
Akuma-If they don’t pick u2 you can OS u2 all day, or just do it on reaction to a teleport/bad air-fireball/gtfo of mix-up. I will use u2 to get out of a mix-up that I feel like is too overwhelming. Most of the cast can’t reach Ken in time before he recovers.
Gief- Reversal u2 punishes ex greenhand on block and it’s a good gtfo option when knocked down, low forward should be used alot against gief so low forwardxxfireball fadc u2 is definitely likely. U1 to anti-air and usual ch srk fadc u1 blah blah.
I think that covers ultra usage…anyone else feel free to comment or correct me.
Fei Long Match up - Really lame. His buttons are better than Ken’s in my opinion. You can’t allow him to set the pace or even get in on you. Every second rekka should be punished in some form or fashion and third rekkas should be ultra punishable on block. Whiffed 1st Rekka should be swept EVERY time. Allowing free chicken wings isn’t tolerable because he’s safe on block. Punish that BS before it gets to you with mp uppercut. Lots of fireballs to annoy him unless he’s got ex chicken wing loaded, use that to your advantange, whiff a normal or hit a button loud in person and make the guy do ex chicken wing and punish appropriately.
Juri Match Up - …I…don’t get this match at all. Some players make it impossible to get in with good anti airs and fireball game. I guess out do her fireball game and wait for the dive kick and punish it? Out patient the Juri player, get the knockdown, adjust your jump in timing from a knockdown to consider her wake up dash and punish punish punish ex pinwheel. Or stuff it, whatever.
That’s all I can do for now, pretty tired. I honestly don’t think you can elaborate more on the Hakan/Dan/Gouken match ups than what I already did. But if someone else wants to, feel free. The more knowledge to share the better.
Wow, you guys kick so much ass! It’ll take me awhile to assimilate all this great info, and I may come back with some questions. But for now, I just want to say thanks! :tup:
crouch tech os with cr.fierce against Rufus is SO good. I finally put this into practice and it’s like a god send lol. Thank you Banana Ken, always helping me out when I need it the most! Showcasing the OS in action.
[media=youtube]P1i_aBSreqg[/media] - Banana Ken vs. Justin Wong
So I know that I’m not gdlk like some of you guys, but U1 over U2 for Blanka? I feel like any smart Blanka would keep his horizontal balls really unpredictable for me to counter with U1, and U2 punishes EX ball, no?
I’m really sorry I keep asking about Blanka specifically guys, it’s my worst MU by far.
I think you’ve mis understood.
You’re not looking to counter Blankas ball with a raw U1, rather the fact that ANY ball that you can hit him out of with a fierce DP can be FADC’ed into full U1.
Blanka is classed as being in an airbourne state and thus you will always get full U1 if you FADC your fierce DP. You just need to keep 2 bars stocked and you can really shut down Blank’s Ball for fear of eating 500 damage.
Peace,
G.
Oh, that makes a lot more sense.
Unfortunately I’m still not good at countering Blanka balls with DP if the opponent spaces them well though.
U should prob stick to just lp if u find that u can’t really hit the dp, it works well for blanka balls u just have to be on top of hitting it and mixing up afterwards to make him afraid of balling
I dunno lately I’ve had success punishing blanka balls with raw U1. That’s just me though. I could be making good reads. Though logically, if you do blanka ball from full screen you’re not doing lp blanka ball, it’s hp or ex ball and I react to that.
But by no means am I saying I rape blanka, Foxisquick murdered me online. I just couldn’t keep him off me once he was in and every uppercut I did whiffed and it was bad…I got bodied lol. I hate Blanka more than any match in all of Street Fighter history.
You guys got any new tips on Akuma? Is U2 def the ultra of choice?
cr lp beats blanka balls man
Maybe it’s just my scrubbiness, but just outside c.MK range is where I can’t react/counter it.
If I try step kick I get ball’d, if I try c.MK, I also get ball’d. I can throw fireballs but that’s risky. Lately all I’ve been doing at that range is reacting to what Blanka does, but I still got a long way to go…
Helpful tip, just pay attention to how he’s charging and you can get a better idea of what move he’s going to do. You’ll be semi-ready when you make your move.
Joutai, I have made some mistakes I’d like you to correct.
ALL of makoto’s hayate’s are indeed punishable on block with heavy SRK.
Also in Honda matchup quote, can you please change it to " True safe jump OS Ultra 1 beats all his wake up options ". So people can understand.
Thanks, I’ll try to go through the other matchups and double check…
Guys! This is a call for everyone who is serious about EVO ( Lilsicx, Dr.Chaos, Ikaru and all the US ken pros )! We should really start breaking down the Yun and Yang matchup.
So far, am thinking ken can out footsie both of them. Am only concerned about their frame traps, yun’s Mp to Hp target combo is great pressure and we should know the frame advantage on it. Because most target combos are punishable ( except for dudley’s ).
I think we can DP between Yang’s slashes, but this is only a theory.
About their dive kicks, Joon says that they can be stuffed with jabs and other normals, maybe we can jump back HK? or HP?
I saw a match where ken did meaty Cr.lk and Yun’s did a reversal light DP and it whiffed…
Discuss Discuss…
Changes made good sir!
I can testify I’ve also done meaty cr.lk and reversal up kicks whiffed on Yun. That was a long time ago and I haven’t played AE in awhile but I do remember that happening.
Might come in handy, **nabbed this from Yun forums:
**
Ultra 1: 9f start 11f invincible
Ultra 2: 10f start 12f invincible
LK Dive kick, 7f start, -3 block, +3 hit
MK Dive kick, 8f start, -3 block, +3 hit
HK Dive kick, 7f start, -4 block, +2 hit
f+MK 20/4/13, 6~23f throw invincible, 7~23 airbourne, -1 block, +2 hit
LP Lunge punch 9/7/22, -9 block, 9~19 feet invincible, airborne after 9f
MP Lunge punch 14/9/17, -7 block, 14~22 feet invincible, airborne after 14f
HP Lunge punch 17/11/14, -9 block, 17~30 feet invincible, airborne after 17f
EX Lunge punch 17/7+2/15, +1 block, 17~25 feet invicible, airborne after 17f
LK Upkicks 5/2(6)4/22, 7f invincible
MK Upkicks 6/2(6)4/32, 7f invincible
HK Upkicks 8/2(6)4/38, 7f invincible
EX Upkicks 4/2(6)4/32, 5f invincible
Palms, +1 on block
EX Palms, -13 on block
LP Shoulder 16/6/14, -3 block, +2 hit
MP Shoulder 21/5/18 -6 block
HP Shoulder 25/4/22 -7 block
EX Shoulder 13/1(1)4/20 -6 block
And here’s Yang:
Move Damage Stun Meter Startup onBlock onHit Notes
sc.LP 20 50 20 4 4 8 SC
sc.MP 55 100 40 5 4 6 SC
sc.HP 7050 10050 6020 6 -5 2 SC
sc.LK 30 50 20 3 1 4 SC
sc.MK 50 100 40 7 -2 launch JC
sc.HK 110 200 60 10 -8 -4
fs.LP 20 50 20 4 4 8 SC
fs.MP 55 100 40 6 -1 2
fs.HP 100 200 60 9 -4 1
fs.LK 30 50 20 3 1 4 SC
fs.MK 70 100 40 7 -1 1
fs.HK 110 200 60 10 -8 -4
cr.LP 20 50 20 4 3 6 SC
cr.MP 80 100 40 5 -2 2
cr.HP 7550 12575 6020 9 -2 1
cr.LK 30 50 20 3 1 4 SC
cr.MK 60 100 40 6 -1 1 SC
cr.HK 90 150 60 8 -7 down
F+MK
DiveKick
F+Throw 120 100 40 3 down r=0.90
B+Throw 130 120 40 3 down r=0.90
Focus1 60 100 20 21 -20 -20
Focus2 80 150 40 29 -14 crumple
Focus3 140 200 60 65 crumple crumple
L-Slash1 30 50 20 8 -2 1
L-Slash2 40 50 20 8 -5 -1
L-Slash3 75 80 20 8 -8 down
M-Slash1 35 50 20 8 -4 -1
M-Slash2 50 50 20 8 -8 -4
M-Slash3 75 80 40 8 -12 down
H-Slash1 40 50 20 8 -6 -3
H-Slash2 55 50 20 8 -10 -6
H-Slash3 80 80 40 8 -14 down
EX-Slash1 60 50 0 7 -1 0
EX-Slash2 32 50 0 5 -3 -2
EX-Slash3 32 70 0 6 -8 -1
EX-Slash4 32 80 0 5 -11 -5
EX-Slash5 40 46 0 8 -13 down
L-DP 7050 10050 60 5 -29 down
M-DP 7055 10050 60 6~24 -24 down
H-DP 7060 100100 60 7~38 -21 down
EX-DP 454565 50100100 0 4~31 -25 down
L-Palm feint
M-Palm 120 150 60 16 -5 2
H-Palm 150 250 60 22 2 down
EX-Palm 150 250 0 25 -10 w-bounce
Grab 10 7 r=0.96
EX-Grab 7 7 r=1.19
Ultra1 480 0 0 8 -28
Ultra2 440 0 0 4~32 -79
Uppercutting between slashes would only apply if they actually performed the 2nd slash…theoretically. 1st slash to 2nd slash is cancellable too so you’d be technically cancelling the recovery of the 1st slash and go into the 2nd slash. Unless there’s special conditions to rekkas THEORETICALLY, yeah it’s possible. Lots of theory, I’ll try to get some testing done and get concrete answers.
Also can confirm jabs beating dive kicks but it’s not 100%, it’s all about timing and knowing when they’re dive kick is gonna happen.
Good info in hear I feel that ken beets yun and yang.I’ve. Playd top level yang but not yun so this will probably change but.I play the match like a mix between rufus and fei but specific frame data is really helpful thx guys.when ae drops ill def. Be in training mode with the twins and sincee I wanna lern yang .ill post my 2cent after as well
Wow! Great info Ikaru, thanks for stealing it :P.
So we can punish all dash punches? I don’t see any Yun or Yangs anymore, but the only Yun I played with once made Lp.Shoulder seem like it’s +1 on block. I should’ve DPed!
Another thing, I think we should keep Yun at CLOSE distance so he doesn’t have enough space to make his dash punches safe!
Like, just outside of his footsie range, and inside his UNSAFE specials range. We own him in footsies, and punish his random dive kicks and specials on block.
My friend have told me that he Ultra’d the twin’s palm with cammy U1, as if it was a hadoken. Maybe we can do the same with EX tatsu or U2?
Yun’s HK DP can EASILY be safejumped if his wakeup is normal and if it’s truly 8frame startup, Kthrow > Backdash > J.hp.
Oh so DPing after Yang’s Lp 1st slash is risky since it’s -2… Hmmm, but 2nd hit is punishable so the best thing to do is DP after 2nd hit, we should find a way to recognize which slash is Lp, Mp or Hp, so we adjust if we should DP after 1st or 2nd hit.
If his slashes are true block strings, then Whatever, it wont hurt us to mash between them. Also, Safe jumping Yang seems harder than safe jumping Yun.
Am as excited as you Lilsicx to break down this matchup in the training mode!! Let’s share all our findings once AE drops. Cheers!!
Does yun and yang palms count as projectiles?