USF4 Ken Match-up Thread: Updating 1st Post Edition!

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:31am

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:31am

Waiting for the delete button.

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:32am

Posting Random Stuff.

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:32am

“I now have the power called family. Ryu…what power have you found?” - from “Ryu Final” by Nakahira Masahiko

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:32am

Delete?

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:32am

Blank

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:33am

I’m so strong in SFIII.

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:33am

Blank

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:33am

Where’s the delete button?

Joutai · March 19, 2011, 2:34am

Delete Button?

CCiNO · March 21, 2011, 6:42pm

Can anyone confirm this? I was playing my friend’s Gief in Super last night, about 20 games and I tried jumping MP a lot and was beat by lariat every time. The best I got was a trade. Did 07239 meant Neutral Jump MP? NJ wise, NJ.MK is probably just as effective and it beats pretty much all of Gief’s air normals too.

lilsicx66 · March 21, 2011, 10:00pm

Honestly it workd for me for awhile then it stopped lol I think it depends on wich lariat they use,when I aplied meety pressure on gief they tried to lariat and it got stuffd then another time I got hit so I took it to the training room and his lariats have difrent properties on invicibility and the good geifs know wich one to use at wich time.unless u know a garenteed way to jump in randomly and beet bth lariats wit mp I reccomend only safe jumping and meety crossups only and even then I don’t like doing that much

Prototype47 · March 21, 2011, 10:23pm

this is magnificent guys always count on the ken army to hold it down

Soren · March 21, 2011, 10:40pm

Yes. 07239 was referring to Ken’s neutral jump medium punch, not the jump forward medium punch but as lilsicx66 pointed out, it can be a bit tricky to use.

TheAbsolution · March 22, 2011, 2:34am

Isn’t it risky to safe jump Gief when he has meter? Doesn’t EX SPD beat that option?

GetTheFruit · March 23, 2011, 2:39am

Yes gief can EX spd your safe jumps, it’s just a guess really. And to be honest, all the good giefs I saw never use Lariat as a reversal unless for crossups I guess. Usually they do lariat from crouching position, since doing it this way makes it less likely to trade.
However, as simple as this may sound, back dash > L.hadoken is the SAFEST option against Gief after kara throw, you have enough time to block EX green hand and whiff punish reversal lariat.
Grounded mixup is surprisingly good against gief if you stand out of his SPD range while he’s waking up, all giefs would expect you to stand there but you can surprise them with a B.mk overhead which has amazing range.

SweetJohnnyV · March 23, 2011, 1:45pm

A few observations:

Characters with no info: Juri and Makoto

Characters with slim info: Adon, Cody, Dan, Fei Long, Gouken, Hakan, and Ibuki

Also, it seems like more could be said about the mirror match. I suspect there are notable aspects to this match that are unique to the mirror.

Finally, one thing that I would find rather useful is pros/cons about which ultra to use vs each character.

Anyone have any wisdom to lay down on these? If so, you have my appreciation :tup:

GetTheFruit · March 23, 2011, 7:21pm

About Adon, there is an automatic safejump after Kara throw, which is K.throw > Forward dash > nj.mp, OS’ed with a late sweep which adds the option of punishing backdashes. It is tough to fight him on the ground, and he has great anti airs. To beat a good adon you must have GREAT reaction. By great reaction I mean reacting to jaguar kicks with SRK or ultra. Also, if adon WHIFFS ANY jaguar kick close to you, be ready to punish with cr.mk > ex tatsu, I have punished a whiffed EX jaguar kick with U2 once. Also, L.jaguar kick leaves adon at a frame disadvantage, it’s even punishable with heavy SRK if you block the first active frame, but try not to punish it if you block it at the tip. Also, adon can EASILY dash under any ambiguous crossup attempt. One thing am not sure about is when being knocked down by Adon, sometimes it’s hard to autocorrect SRK his ambiguous crossups so I’ll leave that to someone else to contribute.

About makoto, try to practice ambiguous J.hp OS sweep against her because she can’t do shit about it, you can OS u2 also. I recently uploaded a video about this J.hp but I deleted it due to copyright issue. Still, I think this post will help you on the spacing of the J.hp after K.throw : http://shoryuken.com/f259/updated-again-kens-unblockable-jump-fp-mk-videos-both-244023/index4.html#post10078533 . Am sorry about the long post, you don’t have to read it all though. Also remember that all her non-EX Hayate are punishable on block.

Cody: meaty cr.lk > st.lk ( OS U2 ) > blockstring/combo is the SAFEST and best option against cody on wakeup. Ambiguous crossups j.hp and unblockable j.mk works really well against him. Also, against a great cody, try not to cr.tech after a 2-blocked-jabs-distance ( out of his throw range ) Just block to stay safe from counterhits, he got some nasty counterhit combos specially if he has U2.

Gouken: One thing I noticed when watching Banana ken fight some gouken on oShinAkumao channel, is L.tatsu FADC> combo/blockstring works will against him on his wakeup ( credits to banana ken ). My opinion is this is kinda a tough matchup for ken, if am playing against a serious Gouken I pick sakura.

Am certain there was a post by G77 about U1/U2 match up preferences, and I remember posting about this also, but couldn’t find the post so I’ll try to wrap it up for you.
For me, I use U1 only against :
Chun: Punish blocked EX.sbk after safejump ( crouch blocked ).

Rufus: After a meaty cr.lk, if he goes for messiah you only eat about 100 damage and he flips over you to the other side, leaving him punishable with U1.

Blanka: U2 NEVER works in this matchup. Also, meaty cr.lk > st.lp ( OS U1 ) on a knocked down, cornered blanka beats all of his options except EX upball which is still punishable on HIT in the corner.

Honda: safejump > OS 1, obviously.

U2 for all other characters because it has high comboability chances if you practice the execution on cr.mk xx hadoken FADC U2, and st.jab > U2. It is also the best thing to OS against bison.

King_D · March 23, 2011, 10:44pm

The adon match isn’t hard if u have good reaction my reactions only good enough most of the time to only react tohim leaving the ground so I stick to reversaling only when he’s close unless he got to predictable. One thing I noticed is that almost all adons even gamerbees will jag kick when they got u in the corner watch for it and if he’s abusing air jag kick (which is a lot harder to punish) focus every once in a while. And also his st.rh seems to be really good at keeping me out if ur good u can focus a part of it but u have to stand at the very edge of the hitbox to punish it wit step kick. And grabbing hIm a lot in kens mixups doesn’t seem that bad because his dps can be grabbed except ex (correct me if iam wrong) so he would have to waste 3 ex bars just to get out safely. And obviously use u1 here

With cody u2 punishes every one of his special moves except lp tornado punch thing and his rush kicks if he spaces them right. Watch out for moments where it looks like he whiffed a move right in front of u cause it could be a setup. I personally do a lot of baiting in this match and I don’t like to jump much. Imo this match is big in kens favor because of u2.

With juri u2 and f.srk punishes her ex pinwheel, she can’t Fadc it too so ur taking away her best reversal. And watch throwin fbs in this match a decent juri could react and instant dive kick. Watch her in the air especially scrub ones for dive kick from across the screen. Imo this match is in our favor. Rtsd

Hakan? Hahaha

Gouken back throw has different timing than his front watch for ex demon flip out of ur mixups and pressure. Watch out for his demon flip cuz he could do the counter one which will make ur m.dp whiff and hell take ur life away when I see him go for it I ex air tatsu. He really can’t hit confirm his stuff like ken so his pressure game isn’t good.

Ibuki block her body in her mixups. Watch for ex dp and focus or dash after it. U can sometimes autocorrect dp her… u1 because I don’t see u2 beaing as usefull and if u tag her wit a focus after blockin her dp its more damage.

Fei imo this matchup is just footsie and knowing when to punish rekka. U1 because u can focus a lot of his thing and if he spaces rekka wrong u get f.dp intoultra

Dan? Hahaha

Makoto, focus her instant air kick. a lot of her command moves can be dp punishes her rush punches can be dp except maybe the lp one they could also be focused.(in ae tho ex is safe and breaks glass). Her anti air sucks so imo jump at her especially after a knockdown. U1

I hate mirror matche but its all about knowin wat could punish our stuff. I focus when iam out of low foward range. I jump or backdashe out of our blockstrings or os c.mp/throw or cr.mk/throw. Imo this is just reading ur opponent. U could us u1 or u2 here both have there uses in this match

I use u2 against guile because they get cocky and think i can’t punish sb. Although it is really hard. His wakeup options are bad to so there’s many chances to hit this.
U2 against sagat because 1 they will get cocky or 2 they will realize I can do it and try to fake me which means I get to get in.
I use u1 against ryu because kara focus and regular focus seems to get me in fine when iam close.
Chun li I use u1 because she likes to get those counter hits so instead I counter hit her.
Bison because I don’t really have a hard time with teleport punishing. And because I seem to catch a lot of bison’s doing pc, which is free full ultra off of airbone f.srk for me.
Akuma u2 because of air fireball. I think I caught an akuma that did instant ex air fb wit u2.
Blanka u1 because balls to the face is annoying
Cammy u2 because otherwise I really couldn’t punish her dp effectively.
Balrog u could use both but I like u2 because it can punish some of his punches. And because they don’t think I could react to there rush punche. And I haven’t tried it yet bue u could throw a fb from the right distance and if he turn punches than u could u2 or dp
O ya and against abel I use u2 because if u guess a tornado throw than u nuetral jump.rh or nj.fp, u2. And u could also use it to punish wheel kicks its hard to get the timing right but u can react to it than u2 at the last second. And if he went for a fake wheel kick it will prob hit it.

I use u1 against frame-trap-happy people, people that’s in the air a lot (except vega). Or people that I get a lot of focuses on (except cammy). I use in matches where f.srk is more useful.
I use u2 mainly for punishing because its so fast. And against people with bad wakeup options
I would use u2 more but my execution is horrible and I have a hard time hit confirming a straight cr.mk to u2

yourboycurt · March 24, 2011, 2:24am

I’m still having a hard time with safe jumping EX SBK. Any tips of vids out there?