USF4 Ken Improvement Thread (+EVO Result)

[DevilKnight]

Looking at the list made by Dr. Chaos, there are a small few things listed that I’d like to bring into question. Now I’m not to think I’m more qualified to talk Ken than Dr. Chaos, I’d just like to ask he hear my concerns.

What we would like to see in Ken for SSF4 are…

Top Priority
*There is no reason these should not be addressed

No problem here.

Medium Priority
*Ken should at the least have 2 of these changes.

-Ken and Ryu’s jab shoryu should be reversed, there is no reason Ryu’s recovers faster when its been the opposite since like Hyper Fighting.

This is very minor and not really a concern, but according to frame data Ken recovers 1 frame earlier than Ryu; a frame saved from taking a frame longer to hit. Also where Ryu’s hits frame 3 with 2 frames invincibilty, Ken’s has 3 frames invincibility to his 4 frame startup; so they’re levelled in these respects.

-A 5 frame sweep like Ryu, so Ken has 2 ways of reliable ways of getting a knockdown instead of 1(throw)

The supposed trade-off for Ken having a slower sweep is the recovery he has makes it significantly than Ryu or Akuma’s sweeps. Given Ken’s shortage of knockdowns, this slower/safer concept isn’t so appropriate.

While a link to his sweep for an untechable knockdown is important or Ken to have, I believe what Ed Ma was getting at when he suggested cutting the start-up by one frame is that it would then be possible for Ken to use a 1 frame link to it with his standing LP, while maintaining the sweep the way it is.

A 5 frame speed might require a recovery extension to keep the balance of things in order, where looking at frames for his links, the only possibilities it allows is a 1 frame link from his crouching jab and a looser link from his standing jab.

Perhaps the 7 frame speed is most appropriate overall.

Low Priority
*Ken doesn’t really need these but would enhance his character very well.

-Ex Shoryuken coming out in 3 frames instead of 5.(Ken needs every bit of damage he can get and being able to combo into his ex srk, without s.jabbing or 1 frame linking would be nice)

Buffs to this move such as giving it the most invincibility, I’m down with. However as an Akuma player, being reversed by this move costs me 30% of my life and I feel it should maintain some extent of susceptibility to safe jumping.

I recognise the importance of linking this move for solid damage and again; given frame data on his normals and link possibilities, perhaps alternatively moving cr.LP hit stun for +6 would be a suitable compromise?

-Command overhead f+hk being +4 on hit(Able to link low forward after it hits, it’s currently -1 on hit)

This overhead may be slow and awkward currently, but on hit it does quite heavy damage and stun. Together with the proposed startup reduction to cr.HP, he could link that to EX Tatsu on hit for 348 damage and 510 stun before FADC extensions etc which for and overhead… is really painful.

[bluASTERiSK]

I agree; SRK whiffs are my worst nightmare. It would be nice if Ken had a way to juggle Ultra without having to Focus-Cancel like Ryu, Sagat, Balrog, and Rufus. But his current Tatsus pretty good in my opinion; his regular fierce punch/kick to fierce Tatsu does 350 damage and leaves you at only -1 on hit, and his EX Tatsu works really well in long distance combos and air combos.

I’d be satisfied as long as Ken is faster than Ryu.

C’mon man, Ken barely whiffs SRKs, I remember he did an EX SRK and I tried to sweep him on the way down and them he did a heavy SRK. AND THIS WAS RIGHT WHEN HE LANDED. Seriously man think about characters that have it worse than you.

[kevgeez]

I agree; SRK whiffs are my worst nightmare. It would be nice if Ken had a way to juggle Ultra without having to Focus-Cancel like Ryu, Sagat, Balrog, and Rufus. But his current Tatsus pretty good in my opinion; his regular fierce punch/kick to fierce Tatsu does 350 damage and leaves you at only -1 on hit, and his EX Tatsu works really well in long distance combos and air combos.

I’d be satisfied as long as Ken is faster than Ryu.

i coulda swore the other guy told you to stfu.

[Dragonplex]

Ken’s Alpha hair was the best. SF3 was pretty good too.

[nk4e]

Jumping off the wall doesn’t seem to do anyone any good in SFIV… However, I’ve never seen the move you’re talking about, so I guess I can’t really judge it.

I’ve only seen one or two episodes of that series.

When he had long hair, I am assuming.

[Deeeeejay_XL]

That and fix EX-tatsu… shouldn’t leave the aggressor (Ken) at 50/50 odds of getting thrown or punished, it should knockdown. All his tatsus should knockdown, damnit.

I disagree, ken’s ex-tatsu is great the way it is… helps out his mix-up game… a knock down would be stupid IMO.

[koudo]

Ken’s Alpha hair was the best. SF3 was pretty good too.

3s > alpha

[Kimmor]

Make his hadoken brown plx

[crazydiamond]

I think they need to make his LP dragon quicker. Just like it always used to be. Also make his neutral MK the same as 3S.

[System_1]

Would like (my 2c):

1. More invicibility frames on jab srk, sick of trading blows with it.
2. More frame advantage on EX Tatsu end, or giving it a knockdown.
3. More consistant method of juggle for his Ultra
4. Better ultra or more reliable/consistent way to pull it off
5. Longer hair with with the yellow more null, something like this just with more colour.

[DevilKnight]

1. More invicibility frames on jab srk, sick of trading blows with it.

Since this has been requested many times in the thread, I feel I should point out that it has invincibility right up until the first frame it hits and this is how all jab Shoryu’s are.

The low invincibility is the trade off for using the jab Shoryu. Additionally; follow-ups are available when you trade with Shoryu’s

[JoontheBaboon]

Hey guys, I just updated this thread with Dr. Chaos’ and Edma’s suggestions (from Mr. Basara!!). From now on, I’ll quote people into the first post if most of us agrees on it.

[Songo_KthX]

I’m not a Ken player, but I’ll say he looks incredibly stupid for a “3D” model. Change his hair to Alpha or 3s hair. Then all the other fixes mentioned.

[natural_ice]

Hair!!!
Hair looks okay, jeez you ladies/homos better head back to the salon where you belong.

[System_1]

Only contribution I have is that the idea that EX tatsu should knock down needs to go away. His mix ups off tatsu are high risk/high reward rather than a safe knockdown, yeh, but it’s one of those things that makes Ken the character he is.

In general, all I would ask of Capcom is to commit to making Ken the rushdown character he should be, rather than being mediocre in both zoning and rushdown. Ken just needs some focus in his design.

Hell they could even make his fireball disappear after a bit like in Marvel vs Capcom, it doesn’t matter. Just give him better tools to pressure opponents.

[DLegasy]

Hair!!!
Hair looks okay, jeez you ladies/homos better head back to the salon where you belong.

It cant bother me that ken looks like a weird teenage girl?

[natural_ice]

Maybe you’re the only one that sees that… and it makes you feel strange in the pants?

[Aggroboy]

Yeah the obsession with an anime/game character’s hair is kinda disturbing :wtf:

[System_1]

Wow, some people straight on the defensive there… one apparantly wants to play Barbie’s Horse Adventure so I guess I shouldn’t be too concerned. But joking aside I don’t find it disturbing, I just find his medium length retina-burning yellow hair doesn’t suit him in this game and I think he suits longer hair with his model (maybe even shorter hair). I wouldn’t really stop at his hair and if I could I’d lower the muscle mass of Ken’s arms back down to third strike levels as it’s just too much in SF4 and looks like a Gears of War reject.

[LordofUltima]

He has a poopy focus, that’s really all I’d change about Ken.