The rolls if i remember right, in the previous games that had them, did not go through fireballs(well except maybe High Tiger)? They were just a deadly mixup tool in A2(and i mean deadly), and just a better way to mantain pressure during block strings. If you roll into fireballs you would get hit.
So if it maintained that function, then it wouldnt seem like just another version of Abel’s roll. Though this doesnt help in letting Ken get any closer, just helping him once he does.
I am hoping for crazy kicks, …man…stressing to just know what he has thats new…driving me mad:grrr:
What would the frames look like? If his roll didn’t go through fireballs, then I’m assuming it was pretty useless in CvS2 (except for those lvl 2 shoryu reppa cancel combos). I didn’t play A2 for real… Just again with fireball until they jump crap. 
I’m with you. I really hope they throw the crazy kicks in, if for nothing else, nostalgia and further making Ken more fun to play than boring Ryu throwing Hadokens all day long…
Ken just needs a better Ultra, unscaled target combo, and long hair. LONG HAIR.
“better Ultra” doesn’t exactly solve Ken’s problems. Shoryu FADC Ultra being a bit beefier certainly couldn’t hurt anything.
Unscaled target combo really isn’t going to help anything. It will still be inferior to c.lk, c.lp as a hit confirm/ pressure tool and to cl.RH as a punisher.
The target combo would need to be completely reworked. Right now, close fierce is -3 or 4 on block, meaning you couldn’t get away with doing the combo as a hit confirm. even moreso, close strong is pretty shitty itself, so both close strong and close fierce suck in this game. They need to rework those normals (or how they work together as a target combo) before that damn thing will ever see a use.
I always forget Ken has his target combo til someone brings it up in this thread.
And goddammit on the long hair… It doesn’t make sense… It’s… It’s… Fuck it… Let’s paint his finger and toe nails while we’re at it.
This!
I think that’d be pretty sweet. I also like to see if they give him the 3s super art it should definitely suit his flashiness. I wonder how they’ll have it combo?
Whatever they do it doesnt matter cause im gonna main ken until my fingers fall off.
Gotta love the Shoryu-Reppa :wgrin:
IMO, give him the shippu minus the ending, the up tatsu. Basically it’s a set up move for something like the ultra (not full), and then give him full ultra on FADC.
Since it doesn’t end in a tatsu, it’s not really the shippu, and it would work quite nicely as a replacement to EX tatsu if they reduced the amount of kicks. That would also lower the combo reduction.
Moves are counted as one set towards combo scaling. His tatsu in a combo doesn’t scale it down 5 times, it’s one move.
:nono:…no thanks, Alpha hair was a big mistake. He grew some balls since then. ken’s hair is the way its suppose to be, listen to Mr. Basara, he knows what he is talking about in regards to gameplay application
I would like to see the crazy kicks back in full force and its Ex to look like the start up of the jinrai-shippu while the Ex.tatsu can look like the end of the jinrai-shippu. But then I would rather see his 2nd Ultra end up being the Jinrai-Shippu and avoid this Ex pseudo Super effect that Shinku-Tatsu has.
Ken needs:
Make him faster than Ryu
Give him his Shippu Jinrai Kyaku
Make his SRK stronger than Ryu’s
Give him some special kick moves like he had in SSTII
Fix his hair
You mean Frame Data? I don’t really know the actual frame data, but its pretty vortex-like. People would blockstring/combo into roll which could either end up in front or behind you, do a c.hp xx roll and then loop you to death. In A2 it was a ‘dash’ of sorts too since you can only walk in that game. Its pretty fast lol.
In CvS2 its much weaker but for anyone that uses Ken in a non-RC Groove (most possibly in K), canceling a blockstring into a lp roll can sometimes be a good pressure tool to continue your assault since you are right next to them again. LP Roll is pretty fast in CvS2 (though slower than A2) and leads you to be in their face again for rushdown/srk/mixup etc. Its also a another alternative in your offense depending on your matchup as opposed to ending a blockstring with Hadouken/Tatsus which either ends the pressure right there or is unsafe.
This is what i mean by, if Ken got a version of his roll from a previous game, it most likely wouldnt help him advance like Abel’s roll would and only is useful once you get in their faces. Which…might be quite useful in complimenting his rushdown plan, but does little to actually start it.
every [real] shoto, and sagat, need a reverse DP. basically, it’d be done with the same motion as a regular DP, but with kick buttons, and instead of coming out normally, it’d come out backwards. same properties and everything. It needs to be option selectable with any punch of the same strength. This means that it would tech if you were getting grabbed, and SRK in the necessary direction depending on whether or not the opponent as crossed over or not.
i feel like all [real]shotos (and sagat) need this, as other characters are too good against them
oh and SRK’s need to be invincible on the way down too
yes, i’m out for neg reps.
I would be wasting so much meter doing EX crazy kick to EX tatsu while hearing SFIII Ken’s voice doing a Shippu…
If his second ultra ended up being Shippu, then it would need to have the Abel “go through fireballs and hurt you really badly” effect. Otherwise, I just don’t see the point of it being in.
With crappy block stun, lenient inputs, and OST, I just don’t see it working. He’d either be getting SRKed, c.lk’ed, or grabbed out of it all the time… Unless it had some invincibility, which would effectively make it a tool against fireballs in the process. I dunno… Maybe if they gave his normals insane frame advantage on block?
Aren’t you cute? If only I had some troll treats… This forum makes me use em up really quickly…
i’m rainchecking you on that. I WANT MY TREATS
and that was an obvious attempt, too obvious probably, so it’s better to call me silly or sarcastic is better than calling me a troll
C’mon Mr. Basara we’ve been through this. Shippu would fit in perfectly as an EX move. It would be a great position, damage, and mid range confirm move that’s light on the meter and can be used multiple times in one round. That was exactly it’s design philosophy all along.
I realise before my suggestion of having it do 240 damage might have been abit much, so I’m saying if it were to be in the game, it should cost 1 EX stock and cause 180 damage.
I know there are harder hitting EX moves out there but none that can provide that kind of positional advantage off of a mid range poke like his cr.mk.
If Ken got this I would play him so much more.
I would most certainly play him more (well… I really only play him now…) if he had a move that could consistently be hit confirmed from a c.mk that cost only 1 ex bar and did about 200 damage. Shit, hit Akuma with that 3 or 4 times, and he’s out of the game. It would make Ken crazy scary in footsies range. It would be one good solution for Ken to do consistent damage without worrying about standing your opponent up for a Tatsu or linking an EX shoryu in combo.
However, I’m just worried about it being OP.
If it is hit confirmable from a c.mk, then we’d have to look at how fast it comes out, how much forward motion the first kick has, and how much invincibility it has.
How many frames of start up would it need to have in order to be hit confirmable from c.mk. Shippu had 2 frames of start up in 3S, if I’m not mistaken. That’s pretty fast for an EX move. the only EX move I can think of that fast currently is Gief’s EX SPD.
In order for it to connect from a c.mk at max range, it will need to move pretty far. I’ll say AT LEAST the distance of Chun’s super in SFIV. That’s not a huge range (probably not as far as Shippu hit in 3s), so I think it’s pretty reasonable to say that is the minimum distance it would have to cover to work.
Also, invincibility. I don’t know how much invincibility Shippu had in 3s. I’m pretty sure you could go through a fireball with it, but I’m also sure you could grab Ken out of it, so I don’t know about this one.
Now, this is almost as good as Chun’s super (does 300 something damage but takes 4 stocks as oppose to our proposed 1 stock). Balrog can’t dash punch you anymore. Sagat and Ryu can’t cancel into fireball up close against you. Honda can’t headbutt. No Blanka balls. You pretty much effectively shut down everything the opponent can do… with 1 ex bar.
And that’s if it has little to no invincibility. Depending on the invincibility it’s given, it could basically be an EX Green Hand that rapes the footsies part of the game into oblivion… with 1 bar!
I may be exaggerating, but this sounds like it is shaping up to be one hell of a move.
After writing it out, it seems like it would be a powerful option to save meter for super in certain match ups if Shippu was the super, instead of Shoryu Reppa. Make it do 300 damage or so, and it becomes pretty viable. But as a 1 bar EX move, it would need some major tweaks.
(Before the shitstorm, I know it will need to be tweaked more to fit SFIV, but as it stands, it just looks too OP to me…)
And I love your new avie, DHEvil.
Well if it’s that much of a problem, give it zero invul. That way it’s only guaranteed if you confirm it first.
But it still shuts fools down with just one bar. Ken would just be bull dogging however he wants. Everyone would be too scared to stick anything out. The lack of invulnerability would just mean it would be slightly less effective in footsies.
I still want Shippu in… We just gotta work it out. One of the updates in the sticky thread talks about some group that got to play a demo of the game that had the 3 new characters along with Guile, Chun, and Ryu. Why not Ken? I’ll tell you why! Capcom is waiting for us to work this Shippu business out. Let’s make it happen, Ken Army! 
In super turbo, (correct me if I’m wrong on this as I’ve like, bare minimum experience with the game) Ken appeared to have a qcf kick that hit twice. It was a roundhouse kick to the face.
I could see this make some kind of return and function like Rufus’ messiah kick.