USF4 Hakan change list. UPDATE: Fix for CR LK

[Oilforthewin]

http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofiend/blog/2014/05/22/usfiv-final-character-change-list

Can´t somehow quote the changes, but we got some nice stuff I think. Changes are in the last post.
Thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKwtsdr6o9o&feature=youtu.be&aUSFIV

[Pritz]

Give me at least regular throw range on unoiled grabs.<div>Give me a little extra frame advantage on some of the medium normals like strong and forward for easier/better links and block strings.</div><div>Make oil last a little longer? </div><div><br></div><div>That’s all he needs in my opinion. </div>

[xpulse]

Oil shower could give more oil by a hair (1-2s sounds fine).<br>Link s.lp from c.lk<br>Super should have crouch cancel<br>Oil dives could have same properties as Super versions (leave un-oiled SPD range alone in this case)<br>Buff un-oiled SPD range to 1/4 of what oiled range is (it looks silly to see the whiff animation when Hakan is clearly all over the other character)<br>Give Hakan a “fake” oil shower move.  New showers will be LK = fake, MK = light, HK = heavy (no one uses MK oil to my knowledge).  Fake oil recovery should be close, if not faster than Yun/Yang fake palm.<br>Range on air throw could be buffed a bit.<br>Legit j.lk crossup<br>

[SynKyller]

Must haves<br><br>- Flying Oil Spin must be Cancellable like regular oil dives.<br>- Jumping Medium Kick a viable cross up (it looks like one so make it act like one).<br><br><br>**Wish he had it, but can live with out **<br><br>- Crouching Fierce or Standing Fierce being an overhead on first hit (Some of you say he doesnt need it but I say he does because it adds another option to him and it keeps Charge back characters on their toes)<br><br>- [From Tbay313] Guard position (AKA Coward Crouch) when oiled should and can be used as a viable Anti-air. <br><br> <br>

[3xfun_wtf]

so the plans for a SFIV update is in the works now… I guess we can use this thread as a means to list what changes we hakan players would like!

• I would rather like cr.lk to be chained when unoiled. For me its just tedious that you hit cr.lk for 3-4 hits… and right when you lose the oil you lose it.
• hakan smash cancel to slide

[crazydiamond]

They really need to make his standing heavy punch (chop) an overhead on the second hit. Here’s why:

• His oil dive only hits characters standing. If you make it an overhead the opponent will be more inclined to stand thus giving Hakan more mixup options with Oil Dive and Crouch Medium Kick > Slide. Or Simply just Slide.

• It even looks like an overhead!

[RagingStormX]

• Coward crouch should be cancellable into Ultra 1 similar to akuma teleport to u2. This will make people think twice about jumping because you can avoid an attack and 720 as they land.

• slide needs to be fadc able even if you hit punch follow up. I see no reason not to.

• its would be nice to have f+HK be a frame or 2 safer on block

• 360 unoiled needs a bit more range at least enough for 2 jabs maybe a bit less. Its just annoying being really close and whiffing still.

[RagingStormX]

• chainable lights preferably s.lk or s.lp.
• better hit boxes on anti air normals

They really need to make his standing heavy punch (chop) an overhead on the second hit. Here’s why:

• His oil dive only hits characters standing. If you make it an overhead the opponent will be more inclined to stand thus giving Hakan more mixup options with Oil Dive and Crouch Medium Kick > Slide. Or Simply just Slide.

• It even looks like an overhead!

He doesn’t need a overhead since he already has 360p or k mix up and oil dive is uncrouchable on wake up anyway even if they don’t stand.

[crazydiamond]

They really need to make his standing heavy punch (chop) an overhead on the second hit. Here’s why:

• His oil dive only hits characters standing. If you make it an overhead the opponent will be more inclined to stand thus giving Hakan more mixup options with Oil Dive and Crouch Medium Kick > Slide. Or Simply just Slide.

• It even looks like an overhead!

He doesn’t need a overhead since he already has 360p or k mix up and oil dive is uncrouchable on wake up anyway even if they don’t stand.

So by that rationale Hugo shouldn’t have an overhead either, yet he has three not including universal overhead. This is about making Hakan more balanced against the other characters. Hakan players shouldn’t have to resort to “oil dive on wake up” the timing is just too risky, if you miss you could be dead. Just give him an overhead.

Also crouching jabs stuff his Oil Rocket.

[crazydiamond]

One other improvement he needs is to fly over characters with missed oil dives much easier. Including LK oil dive. (Maybe only when oiled as it would be like he is slipping over them.) Oil Dive should be a legitimate way to escape the corner if necessary.

[RagingStormX]

They really need to make his standing heavy punch (chop) an overhead on the second hit. Here’s why:

• His oil dive only hits characters standing. If you make it an overhead the opponent will be more inclined to stand thus giving Hakan more mixup options with Oil Dive and Crouch Medium Kick > Slide. Or Simply just Slide.

• It even looks like an overhead!

He doesn’t need a overhead since he already has 360p or k mix up and oil dive is uncrouchable on wake up anyway even if they don’t stand.

So by that rationale Hugo shouldn’t have an overhead either, yet he has three not including universal overhead. This is about making Hakan more balanced against the other characters. Hakan players shouldn’t have to resort to “oil dive on wake up” the timing is just too risky, if you miss you could be dead. Just give him an overhead.

Also crouching jabs stuff his Oil Rocket.

Actually oil dive is incredibly easy and I can do it by visual cue for the uncrouchable. Also if jabs are beating your 360 you are not in range or ticking properly. Third Hugo isn’t even in SF4 and yes he does have a overhead, but he doesnt have a uncrouchable grab that grabs backdashes and jumps. Dhalsim has a fireball so should Necro had gotten one also? Different characters with different playstyles that you can’t really compare just because similarities. Hugo is a grappler and so is Hakan isn’t a valid reason why he genuinly needs a overhead.

[RagingStormX]

One other improvement he needs is to fly over characters with missed oil dives much easier. Including LK oil dive. (Maybe only when oiled as it would be like he is slipping over them.) Oil Dive should be a legitimate way to escape the corner if necessary.

This I can agree with.

[Oilforthewin]

I would also like to add that getting more range for the unoiled SPD, would be also great.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Hakan
Oil Rocket File:Jab.gif 0.97[1.79] 150[170] 100 40/100 - 3 2 56 - - Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Oil Rocket File:strong.gif 0.97[1.56] 160[180] 100 40/100 - 3 2 56 - - Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Oil Rocket File:fierce.gif 0.97[1.50] 180[200] 100 40/100 - 3 2 56 - - Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Oil Rocket File:EX.gif 0.97[1.79] 210[230] 160 -250/0 - 3 2 56 - - 1~4f strike and projectile invincible, Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Range should at least at 1.30 in my opinion, EX version should be still higher.

By the way, Guile players want autocorrecting Flash Kicks(-.-), Dieminion is an example for it, so in other words, nobody thinks about balancing, just about “make my main godlike”. So …
Oh don´t feed the trolls at Capcom Unity.

[RagingStormX]

I would also like to add that getting more range for the unoiled SPD, would be also great.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Hakan
Oil Rocket File:Jab.gif 0.97[1.79] 150[170] 100 40/100 - 3 2 56 - - Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Oil Rocket File:strong.gif 0.97[1.56] 160[180] 100 40/100 - 3 2 56 - - Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Oil Rocket File:fierce.gif 0.97[1.50] 180[200] 100 40/100 - 3 2 56 - - Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Oil Rocket File:EX.gif 0.97[1.79] 210[230] 160 -250/0 - 3 2 56 - - 1~4f strike and projectile invincible, Hard knockdown, [] refers to Oiled state
Range should at least at 1.30 in my opinion, EX version should be still higher.

By the way, Guile players want autocorrecting Flash Kicks(-.-), Dieminion is an example for it, so in other words, nobody thinks about balancing, just about “make my main godlike”. So …
Oh don´t feed the trolls at Capcom Unity.

Man it used to take skill to auto correct dp, now people want to be spoon fed.

[Oilforthewin]

The auto correct shit will make a lot of matchups 7-3 in Guiles favour or even much worse(Guile vs Bison will be 9-1 at least). But when I suggested to make Hakan´s CR.LK special cancelable or able to link into a slide, then I got resistance, because he is already better than Gief and whatever. My suggest isn´t imo really gamebreaking, but was intended to help him to achieve knockdowns much easier or safer.

Over at the Capcom Unity, there is so many bullshit there:
Gouken´s Kongoshin should parry armor breaking moves.
Vega´s claw should deal chip damage.
T.Hawks EX Condor DIve should land after a block at direct nearby at the opponent.
ETC.

[crazydiamond]

They really need to make his standing heavy punch (chop) an overhead on the second hit. Here’s why:

• His oil dive only hits characters standing. If you make it an overhead the opponent will be more inclined to stand thus giving Hakan more mixup options with Oil Dive and Crouch Medium Kick > Slide. Or Simply just Slide.

• It even looks like an overhead!

He doesn’t need a overhead since he already has 360p or k mix up and oil dive is uncrouchable on wake up anyway even if they don’t stand.

So by that rationale Hugo shouldn’t have an overhead either, yet he has three not including universal overhead. This is about making Hakan more balanced against the other characters. Hakan players shouldn’t have to resort to “oil dive on wake up” the timing is just too risky, if you miss you could be dead. Just give him an overhead.

Also crouching jabs stuff his Oil Rocket.

Actually oil dive is incredibly easy and I can do it by visual cue for the uncrouchable. Also if jabs are beating your 360 you are not in range or ticking properly. Third Hugo isn’t even in SF4 and yes he does have a overhead, but he doesnt have a uncrouchable grab that grabs backdashes and jumps. Dhalsim has a fireball so should Necro had gotten one also? Different characters with different playstyles that you can’t really compare just because similarities. Hugo is a grappler and so is Hakan isn’t a valid reason why he genuinly needs a overhead.

They really need to make his standing heavy punch (chop) an overhead on the second hit. Here’s why:

• His oil dive only hits characters standing. If you make it an overhead the opponent will be more inclined to stand thus giving Hakan more mixup options with Oil Dive and Crouch Medium Kick > Slide. Or Simply just Slide.

• It even looks like an overhead!

He doesn’t need a overhead since he already has 360p or k mix up and oil dive is uncrouchable on wake up anyway even if they don’t stand.

So by that rationale Hugo shouldn’t have an overhead either, yet he has three not including universal overhead. This is about making Hakan more balanced against the other characters. Hakan players shouldn’t have to resort to “oil dive on wake up” the timing is just too risky, if you miss you could be dead. Just give him an overhead.

Also crouching jabs stuff his Oil Rocket.

Actually oil dive is incredibly easy and I can do it by visual cue for the uncrouchable. Also if jabs are beating your 360 you are not in range or ticking properly.

Not true. The hitbox of the jab is longer than the hit box of the grab. The only safe grab through crouching jabs is his ex grab.

Just give him his overhead.

[britepixel]

1. make his CC useful.

Make it like Sim’s Yoga Tower where he can cancel recovery or just move the hitbox right back to his feet or something and remove all recovery(not a huge buff tbh). These changes would make the move more viable in close range situations and just in general.

2. Any Oil Up(not just EX Oil) > CC

and/or

3. Oil Up > FA(this would be dope!!!)

4. fix the glitch - for some reason he is able to FADNC after a connecting with FA but is not able to CC. The way I see it Hakan should be enabled to use his FA as much as possible while still being able evade using CC.

For me the main problem in his bad matchups is the difficulty in safely Oiling Up, none of these changes make it risk free but they will even out the playing field a bit more I think.

[Oilforthewin]

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/29846177/hakan-balance-suggestions
The suggestions for Hakan can be posted now.

[ANDSlayers]

I do have an idea for changes but it’ll take some time for me to list them, posting them later.

[Comatonic]

I WAS ALL FKKIN OVER THIS.

My post:

Hakan can be quite marvelous, but when he starts getting the pressure on him heavy or has to keep it up on opponents, he has a huge struggle. His mixup game on wakeup is incredibly dangerous risky and punishable in almost all scenarios by a majority of the cast, however I feel only three changes would really help him, just to give him something when he’s not oiled.

1. a 3frame normal, ideally LP but it could be something a little trickier to use like f. LP or f. LK. Either of these would help with normal pressure that is otherwise “Wait for them to do anything thats not 3 or 4 frames and focus it, or anticipate the tech”.

2.A standing overhead would be nice, iceally st. HP. When unoiled, his entire game is shut out by CROUCHING. I think the dichotomy between his specials when oiled and not is very useful, and honestly, what defines him as a char. Increasing SPD range when unoiled would be another more grappler-common way to make this work, but it would lessen and cheapen him as a character. St. HP as an overhead is a nice long range pressure tool, that between it and f. HK would give him some semblance of a long range threatening poke game when he’s unoiled, and completely change him as a char. Definitely keep it a two hitter, though. If Akuma with all his pressure and options can have a two hit overhead why not Hakan?

3. Change the hitboxes of j. HK so that it crosses up properly. Giving him a jumping game with a crossup would open up whole new worlds for him on wakeup, since with proper timing he already has a bevy of options off of a blocked or hit j. HK. Since it only properly crosses up in the corner, just move the hitbox further up on his body so that he can cross out of the corner as well. When he’s jumping now, he’s either safejumping into a dive setup or SPD, or generally getting reversaled out of the air.

Otherwise I think most of the best changes to him already happened. Oil at the beginning is a blessing, versatility of the dives is a godsend against speedy approachers, but with these three little tweaks, he could actually pose a threat higher in the tier list, or at least defend himself somewhat when unoiled. It’s sad when some people know just to keep him out till oil goes away, and then destroy him.