Useful bit of info on kara-palming!

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
1

Hello all, nice to meet you!
I’m a brazillian scrub Yun player, big fan of kara-palming:wgrin:

well, I discovered something that can be of good use when kara’ing the Kobokushi in Gen’ei jin, especially for pad users like me

anyway, I got a little tired of getting 1 successful kara out of 20 or more palms and tried to apply some new things by experimenting

so, to do the commonly (and probably best) kara palm you input:
st.MP~QCB+st.LK~any P

another one is(where you can hear yun’s TOOP! to confirm the kara):
st.MP~QCB+cr.HK(buffer cr.HK in about 4/5 of the QCB)~any P (personally, almost never got to to work, can’t get any crouching kara move at all)

The thing is, if you kara st.MP to almost every normal, you can get some distance, hence the usage of kara HP, kara f.HP and others

So, combining those facts, I started kara’ing with all normals to see the results:

First I measured the distance gain when kara’ing the st.MP with a normal.
results were as following (taking Yun’s rear foot position, which determines kara-palm start place) :
-st.MP~st.LK (longest)
-st.MP~cr.HK (2nd longest)
-st.MP~st.LP (3rd longest)
-st.MP~st.MK (same as cr.HK)
-st.MP~cr.LK (smallest)

other normals doesn’t give almost any distance (excluding st.HP, f.HP and f.MK. All of them give great distances, but kara-palming after is very hard)

Then, I started testing the kara-palm itself with the normals above, and got another bit of info:
When doing the QCB motion, you have to do it very fast, as stated everywhere
Since I own a ps2 pad, there’s no way I can reach the speed of a quarter circle made on stick so, I often get the second normal to happen in crouch position and ruining the kara. Also said on boards and tutorials, the QCB should be done during st.MP to not ruin the next standing move. But going to frame data…:

In order to succesfully kara anything, you must input the next command during the startup frames of the move:
-st.MP startup: 6 frames (sfIII runs at 60fps, meaning 0.1 second to input qcb+next move for a succesful kara, not mentioning the next kara)

That’s freaking HARD on a pad… so what should I do?

I came up with this:

  • let’s take the move with the most reach and frame startup, to make movements a little bit thumb friendly:wgrin:

analyzing frame data I got this:
st.LK/st.LP/cr.LK (4 frame startup)
st.MK (10 frame startup)
cr.HK (14 frame startup)

so I decided to test each one again, and for my surprise:
the rating of kara-palms I got were like this:
st.LK/st.LP/cr.LK: 3/4 out of 10
cr.HK: 2/3 out of 10

st.MK: 8/9 out of 10!!!

I was thrilled by this, and went berserk on training mode against Ken
nailed 5 palms in a row!

Why? The 10 frames startup grants a little, but significative break to input moves
It also gives the 2nd longer distance, which is suitable for every kara-palm match combo (maybe there’s a problem to land 6, or to do it against the twins/ibuki)

Now, some better info: In case you miss the MK kara palm (input, not timing) the following result actions may save your Gen’eijin combo

  • if the palm is done and missed with LP/HP, you get a double kara LP/HP, that juggles
  • if it’s done with MP (not negative edged), you get st.MP again, or a kara UOH, that resets the opponent (you can follow with a palm, LP lunge punch or upkicks, but opponent can parry)
    -if you miss the last punch(negative edging, unfortunate pad/pressing), the kara MK will hit and juggle opponent

The input of the MK kara palm is like this:
st.MP~st.MK~QCB+any P (you can negative edge MP for more chances to get the palm)

sorry for the long text
I wanted to make it as clear as possible

I ask you all to test it and report your results in the topic please (for me, I feel a little bit like Mester now :wgrin:)

I used default button setting on the ps2 pad, so the most confortable and guaranteed motion I do is: st.MP(triangle)~st.MK(circle)~QCB+HP(R1)
kara’ing from circle to R1 is very comfortable

all tested on PS2 japanese SFIII, in the corner, after many different juggles

hope it helps!

2

Oh, during the practice and research, I got some interesting combo starters for kara-palming nicely without much damage scaling too:

opponent in corner:

-123 string xx Gen’ei jin, st.MP, st.HK, walk up a little, cr.MP, close st.MK, kara-palm x5, ender (start the ender input very fast)
-123 string xx Gen’ei jin, st.MP, st.LK, MK/HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender
-123 string xx Gen’ei jin, st.MP, st.LK, MP shoulder, kara palm x5, ender
-close st. MK, LP shoulder xx Gen’ei jin, LK/MK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender
(thanks to pyrolee and KO for the close st. MK, LP shoulder xx Gen’ei jin)
-MP,HP,b.HP string xx Gen’ei jin, st.HP, HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender
-Palm xx Gen’ei jin, f.HP, HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender

opponent near the corner:
-123 string xx Gen’ei jin, st.MP, st.HK, walk up a little, cr.MP, HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender
-123 string xx Gen’ei jin, st.MP, st.LK, MK/HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender
-close st. MK, LP shoulder xx Gen’ei jin, HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender
-MP,HP,b.HP string xx Gen’ei jin, MP/HP lunge punch, HK upkicks(if needed to get in corner), palm, kara palm x4, ender
-Palm xx Gen’ei jin, kara f.HP or lunge punch, HK upkicks, palm, kara palm x4, ender

Still haven’t tested on everyone, but these work on shotos, and makoto
Also, st.MP, st.HK combos are very TIGHT timed (especially cr.MP, close st.MK follow)

I couldn’t get straight palm combos yet, probably because of the shorter kara

3

If this shit actually works I’ll be happy as hell.

I’m a pad user lol >.>

4

Update:

Hello, just tested st.MK kara palm aganist all characters and the results are favorable:

With exception of the twins, oro, ibuki and remy, you can land a maximum of 5 st.MK kara palms in any situation (or palm + 4 kara st.MK palms). For the exception chars, the limit is 4 palms, due to less range. In fact if you switch the last kara palm for the st.lk, you can hit them 5 times.

Oh, buffer the QCB in between the two normals is really the best bet, as it also ensures easier performing of the LK method later on.

Anyway, you can use them in match combos with more safety, in case of an error.
also, with PS2 default button layout, using HP for the palm is the best choice. Karaing the st.MP and missing the palm requirements, you can get a st.MK for a further karapalm juggle. After a st.MK, timing is not hard at all

about the combos I posted, the st.MP, st.HK, cr.MP, close st.MK/upkicks after a 123 string/lp shoulder is only worth on large framed chars(Hugo, Alex, Necro, Urien), or if you get any char in a chain really close to you

some good moves to get nice range and confidence to start kara palming:
-MP shoulder…/activate GJ, st.MP, st.HP, MP shoulder (corner)
-f. MK x2…
-c.LK, palm… (Boss uses a lot )
-f.HP…(tricky timing, start before yun returns to initial position)
-any lunge punch, palm… (big damage scaling…)
-close st.MK, palm…/close st.MK, dash under, palm…
-upkicks, palm…
-upkicks, close st.MK… (Mester uses a lot)

small note: training MK palms gets the hang necessary to do LK ones, hehe
and there are somethings to get with consistency, for not attempting palms and get an index finger hurting like hell like I did:

-Train first the range setup, by watching the speed of the mp first kara cancel. Watch carefully the distance that yun travel, since you need the maximum length to get a nice kara palm. Starting from opposite sides, perform st.MP~st.LK until getting close to the opponent. If you do it right, it’ll take 7 or 8 reps to close in and hit the kick(5 for hit MK).
-Second, pay attention to the buttons sound, and accelerate your QCB/QCF motions, to stick them in between the normals, without getting any crouch normal, or it’ll ruin your kara palm (the reason the stick is easier is that you can pull lever movements rapid as hell, and button layout helps a lot too). It’ll sound like a very quick “pa pat”. In this video, you can hear the button pressing time: [media=youtube]Eb9kfYHN5v8[/media] (thank you Marko3s!)
-Then proceed the stage strolling with the palm. The “pat” from “pa pat” will now hold together the kick and punch sounds. The correct kara palm occurs when you see yun stagger the LK or MK(and advance a little) animation and go palming (from opposite sides, the 7th/8th palm will hit, if done correctly.)
-Finally, observe the queue after each attack to proceed kara palming. Each palm gets you backwards. Starting before you stop sliding will get you more to the back, starting too late and you’ll miss the kara palm. Easier timings are after a MP shoulder, a normal palm, st.HP and st.MK.

again, big text, hehe
I wanted to put out the small things necessary to do, since the only thing I see in forums or guides are simply to hit the three moves very fast (enough, but very vague to me) Mester-san e-mail talks were very helpful too!

for finishers you can use early canceled normal HK upkicks/f.MK ones, or even KO finishers/palm enders. Replacing the final palm with early lunge punch and close st. MK gives the right timing for hitting the opener palm (use short ~ kara palm to ensure hit)

and damn! it’s nice to see lifebars diminishing 85%!!

hope it helps!

5

Seems a lot easier to pull off than the traditional method. And you’re right… it’s comfortable to pull off on the joypad with triangle, circle and r1. Easy too. My stick is gone right now but I assume it’s easier on the stick as well.

Good shit and thanks for letting everyone know.

6

youre awesome waraboushi
now i can play yun at home this is all really useful

7

Thank you for your kind answers!

Little Update:

Hello all, how’s kara palm training?

Well, when I was taking the training a little further, there are some notes left to point out:

|-you CAN land 6 MK kara palms on the following chars: Chun-li, Makoto, Elena, Necro, Hugo and Q. Big falling hitboxes!

|-if you land six palms in a combo, or the last kara palm from your combo ends your gen’eijin, you can still use some finishers:
-f.hp, kara lunge punch works on shotos, chun-li, elena, makoto, necro, twelve, q and hugo
-mp shoulder(with timing), walk, c.mp, lk upkicks works on dudley, twins, alex, ibuki, urien and oro
-to be sure of hitting a finisher, mp lunge punch or hk upkicks work aganist everyone
(I’m out of home right now, so, I’ll test it thoroughly afterwards)

oh, and there’s something I pulled off by mistake, but it may be very useful
after a 123 chain, I got fired up and released a kara palm. After a hit of the st.mp, I think you can’t kara at all, but I did it, and it comboed! (against Chun, btw)

ah, and a question too. How do you chain, after cr.mk/cr.mp/close st. hp activations?

8

this is only useful info for pad users because kara palming on stick is mad easy >_<

9

hey shodokan123-san! thanks for your help at youtube!

indeed, but it can help getting used with stick action too.
timing is the same after all ^^

today I played on a stick (lousy one), but still managed to perform nicely
raping opponents with only mp and lk (easiest/safest way on a stick IMO, mp~QCB+lk~mp) rules!

Palm error/safe MK release notes also applies for sticks

10

Great work. Thanks a lot, Waraboushi.

N

11

clearly that isn’t true or everyone would be doing them hush

good shit waraboushi i’ll have to try this out

12

Thank you for the sticky Thongboy Bebop!! Good luck True_Tech (and it’s about to become easier, I think)

Ok, some new info, but this time not about mk kara palm, but more general info:

I was strolling into sf3 japanese forums and pages and discovered that there are actually 4(!!) main types of kara palm

  • Kara Palm: QCB+lk~any punch (also called ghetto palm by some people lol)
  • True Kara Palm: mp~QCB+lk~any punch (the “one”)
  • Walking Kara Palm (!!)
  • Walking True Kara Palm (shit!)

by seeing that on japanese pages (In which all of them just mention, but no deep explanation) I decided to test again

soon, I found out that the meaning of walking is to actually perform a whole gen’ei jin corner string holding forward, to fill any frame gaps that you would have standing normally (and I got pissed, after missing so many palms in actual fights, just because of that). By doing that, all the palms naturally become HCB+p, and you can hit consistently every palm involved.

But…when walking and kara’ing the palm, you’ll ultimately get Zenpou Tenshin…and lose the combo…

So, what to do? How to walk and kara palm?
I found an exquisite answer, but may be incorrect (I sent an e-mail to mester, and some posting on forums asking for commands and tips, until it comes, I’ll stick to this):
Since you’re already walking, you cover some distance, and the kara palm doesn’t need to be so big as st.lk…Then I did this:
st.mp~HCB+c.lk~punch
breaking into parts: st.mp~F, DF, D, lk, DB, B+punch

and, it worked!! It also made me learn kara zenpou tenshin (timing is the same!)
Although timing is different from normal kara palm, it’s easier to connect
(if you watch some kara palm videos, some of them you can barely see the st.mp animation, which is the walking true kara palm, and the ones that yun stagger before palming, which denotes true kara palm)

also, walking true kara palm is the only way to connect the palm after F.hp, and thus landing 5/6 palms+finisher after 123 string, getting a full fledged rape(lol). It is also used to land palms easier on Oro, Twins and Ibuki

I’ll post more as soon as the answers reach me

PS: check ou this combo on chun li:
close st.mk xx SJC xx GJ xx palm, kara palm, f.mk, palm, kara palm x 2, hk upkicks or mp lunge punch(GJ end), lp shoulder(as soon as you can), hp palm, mk upkicks(2hits)

132 dmg…damn!

13

Hello all!

today mester’s e-mail came in and he explained to me nicely, but not really technical, so, we’re kinda on the same yet…

anyway, he said that he does it, using same kara timing, but inputting HCB after a little walk. Occasionally a Zenpou Tenshin would come out, but he managed to found out the timing when using his home stick (shit, I’m trying to get a HRAP2, but no luck at all), and it can be used for ALL kara palming attempts

He said that some players supress the zenpou tenshin danger by inputting HCB, F, but he didn’t get it right. He’s also going to test if it is a kara from cr.lk

Thanks to mester for the info!

14

Update:

I just discovered the way to kara palm while walking. Although it doesn’t seem hard, I think it may be because I’m used to timing, but anyway:

It is indeed a cancel from st.mp and st.lk/mk, but, the order of factors changes
so the input is like this (~ stands for kara canceling/slide the buttons/input in flowing sequence):

-while walking (holding forward) st.mp~st.lk/mk~HCB+punch
since HCB is naturally faster than QCB while walking, there should be no problem at all performing it (sometimes you’ll get negative edging for the kick button used, if done in a hurry, thus leading to zenpou tenshin)

oh, remember the start frame notes for both kicks?? making the kara in that order makes walking kara palm MAD easier (but of course, a little less range)

ah, walking “ghetto” palm is not worth learning at all…it’s hard and you can just do any other kara palm to continue the combo

so, now I can list the methods! yay

  • Kara Palm: QCB+st.lk~punch
  • True Kara Palm: st.mp~QCB+st.lk/mk~punch
  • Walking Kara Palm: st.lk/f.mk~HCB+punch
  • Walking True Kara Palm: st.mp~st.lk/mk~HCB+punch

Now, the usage of those new methods are:

  • mainly, to hit a palm after Dakai (f.hp) and ensure a very damaging combo
  • gain distance and time to perform with more safety
  • easier way to hit small characters (twins, ibuki)
  • ONLY way to hit 6 palms on Oro
  • great ground pressure game!

the downside is only that you’re more suscetible to miss the palm, since you’ll be getting the right command most of the time(but sometimes not the right timing), and the zenpou tenshin fear as well. Those palms doesn’t hit also after the close st. mk juggle xx SJ xx GJ glitch of limting the palms to 3 (you still have to stick one senpuu kyaku after the second palm to continue

Mester-san just confirmed the method too! (I watched some videos of him, he sticks to walking kara palms often)

15

Haha, I might be spamming the topic (sorry moderators), but I have some important info on…

-Finishers:

Today I learned yet another limitation on kara palming which is the juggle limit of 6 in an gen’ei jin (Shodokan123 kara palm videos show those too, thanks!)

There is an quick answer to hit a finish after them and do more damage (and win some SA energy, of course) The juggle break rule is only valid for 6 palms in a row, so if you:
1-break the palm string (for st.mk launcher) in the middle (st.mk launch xx SJ xx GJ, palm, kara palm, f.mk/hk upkicks, kara palm x 4…)
2-hit the last palm outside gen’ei jin(for 123 xx GJ,st.mp, f.hp, kara palm x 6)

you can hit a full finisher at situation 1, and a simple, damaging 2 hit finisher for situation 2(last kara palm is already a part of the finisher)

The finisher is just: f.hp, lp lunge punch (mp for chun-li, elena, necro)
for situation 1, some characters can’t be hit with hk upkicks, and you can land any other finisher, or a 7th kara palm and the situation 2 finisher

note that this finisher is the safest to use in matches, and ensures good damage
but I went a little overboard, and tested the following on shotos(ryu only):

123 xx GJ, st.mp, f.hp, kara palm x6(GJ ends just before the last palm hits), KO finisher (!!)
It worked, for 50% bar and lots of damage (130ish), but it’s hell to pull off…
when I pull it consistently, I’ll try to make a video

so, resuming:
less or 5 kara palms = any finisher is fine
6 or 7 = use the simple finisher (for any GJ improvised string that ends in a palm too)

ah, very important note, in any character, the last palm of situation 2 or if you plan to hit a 7th one after situation 1 MUST, I repeat, MUST be a very well timed walking true kara palm (the normals must still be in gen’ei jin)

well, hope that helps!

o, and this might be a nice training to perform nice kara palms in matches(get sum more damage too lol):

after any default corner GJ combo, you can replace the last move with the walking true kara palm and go to 2 hit finisher or KO finisher(remember, hell to pull off). Not very risky and good to get used to. Using common kara palms at default strings is useful too.

16

just a little thing that may add to getting used to kara palming in matches

when performing, don’t think too much about fluidity of the move, but instead, think as if st.mp and the rest were two different entities, and do them as one would do a link combo (I’ve gotten tired of getting crouch mps from fast inputs, and this gave me consistency)

I think this covers much of kara palm engineering, so, post up doubts and reports!

17

No way you can get the KO finish after that many palms, and the bar you get back is nowhere near 50% after that many hits in GJ.

Everything else seems good though, I was wondering why I could never kara palm after f+fierce before. Thanks for all the info on this and since you can read the japanese 3s forums is there any other crazy GJ techniques posted there?

I kara palm as well on pad but mp~lk kara is easier for me than the mk~lk one. Oh yeah I think I have the walking ghetto palm down:smokin:

18

oh, N8DMN, sorry for being not so articulated in this (I was thrilled when writing lol)

as long as you remain in the 5 consecutive palms count inside GJ, the 6th one must be made outside GJ to hit, and its a walking kara palm, where the walking plus mp canceling part is the GJ ending sequence.

the KO finisher normal setup is to make the final GJ part the st.mk launcher for maximum timing to hit the normal palm afterwards. When you rush a little the KO finisher setup, you often miss a palm (that hits before the opponent is on the right spot) thus meaning you can use last GJ frames to move and then release the palm just after GJ ends (It is hard, but not impossible, just unpractical. But we’re already kara palming so…)

so, breaking down the combo in parts, we get this
-123 xx GJ st.mp, f.hp, kara palm x 5(this is where you start the finisher sequence with some special move) st.mp kara canceled in st.lk/mk(Right now the GJ ends and the juggle count restarts, due to super art reset juggling) and kara cancel palm, KO finisher
or also
-st.mk launcher xx SJ xx GJ, palm(ghetto palm may be needed), kara palm, f.mk, palm(again, ghetto palm may be needed) kara palm x 3(this is where you start the finisher sequence with some special move)st.mp kara canceled in st.lk/mk(Right now the GJ ends and the juggle count restarts, due to super art reset juggling) and kara cancel palm, KO finisher

timing is very harsh, like the finisher that involves a palm after a lp shoulder on chunli/elena/necro (mp lunge, lp shoulder, palm, lp lunge or mk/hk upkicks)

I got this combo some times aganist elena and shotos, one time only on a real match though…

oh the bar has indeed not so much recovery, but it is very close to 50% (I’m testing on ps2, dunno any glitches or differences between versions)

In japanese forums, there is now a research for other kinds of finishers in GJ, by exploring all links and possibilities

there’s also different post-activation one frame links, for kara-palming safety and other reasons, like 123 xx GJ, upkicks (hk for shotos, mk for rest, doesn’t work on dudley, twins and ibuki) or cr.mk xx GJ, cr.lk and such

there’s a thread listing lots of ground GJ combos and some awesome corner ground combos, but I couldn’t access it yet

and a sure fire technique to land KO finishers and shoulders after palms is to kara the lp shoulder with cr.lk our even st.lk for pros. Minimal distance gained, but very helpful!

mk~lk?? its mp~mk, heheh.

cool man! I use true kara palm instead, but you can use it effectively too!

19

waraboushi, once i get off of work, im so going to try your crazy “on the ps2 pad mk kara palm”. If it works, you will gain the blessings of the Bum King!:rofl:

20

I think I got it now…

but anyways if you could find somehow get to the ground combos page it would be too sick. I’m always making different ground combos and would like to see what they do. If you’ve seen the last gvision ranbat with boss you can see him using a crazy link, (st.strong~far st.fierce, linked to cr.forward)*N
The st strong punch wiffs and only gains range to link the fierce punch. He was using for block strings as well as a ground combo. I was practing before and could only get 3 reps max cuz the timing was so tight.