Urien Footsie's! A MUST have skill!

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
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So I’m starting this thread for all of us striving Urien players that want to better our game. Sure, in practice mode you can flawlessly do every RX unblockable and you can charge partition like nobodys buisness. However, the cold hard fact that all Urien players get OWNED in the us (and I do mean ALL), is that our defense and footsies blow like nobodys buisness.

In my opinion, we focus to much on doing the damn unblockables and in tournament play, hardly ever get to set it up cause we can never create the situation. Well, thats where good footsies and excellent defense come in handy. What do we as Urien players need to do in order to create those unblockable opportunities? We can only rely on throw into corner, activate aegis for so long.

To start this topic off, I would like to bring up the main Urien bad guy…Shoto’s (mainly Ken/Akuma).

What are the prime attacks vs these button mashing, combo linking shotos?

Standing Forward: I find that when you are just out of Shoto’s Low Forward range, Standing Forward with Urien is pretty good. It stops fireballs at their starting frame and it also hits low strong as well as keeps them from just walking in. The one thing it is vulnerable to is Shoto Low Roundhouse though, so id be careful on spamming it.

Standing Fierce: Althought it is a little slow, it is one of Uriens prime attacks. Builds meter fast and does almost as much damage as his throw. Problem is, it is slow and any spazz happy shoto will usually get a low forward on u before it even connects. So when do we attack with it? Its hard to judge, I myself have a major problem with Shoto, and im trying to develop a strong gameplan agaisnt them but come up blank. Sometimes I like to throw out fierce if the shoto jumps at me and doesnt follow through with an attack (trying to air parry). The second he lands I slap him with fierce. another (kind of risky) technique i use is going for the down parry then leaving the control in neutral and hitting fierce. If i parry low, then bam free fierce…if not im still in range and fierce comes out hopefully stuffing any normal move they attempt.

Low Forward: This move can be your godsend and it could result in your death. Love and Hate move right here. It is slow, so a lot of shotos can see it and parry into lots of damage. I find u need to be really tricky and use it in an unorthodox way. Like standing and crouching real fast then going low, or walking a bit forward then back and hitting low forward. Very strong move, but can bite u in the ass if u are to predicatable with it. If you are Ninja with the reflexes, you can actually see a Shoto whiff his own low forward and get a free hit with yours.

Well, these are just 3 moves I choose to talk about to start things off. Please Urien players, lets use this thread to try and figure out a good strong Footsie game with Urien so we can upgrade the status on Urien players in the US. with all our ability to destroy people with our charge partition unblockables, we should be giving people a run for their money and not free wins.

Defense and Footsies, we all need to up our game if we want to start striking free into other players.

J-Cole

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shoto’s are a chore to play footsies against :confused:

st. fierce is very good and at the right range it beats their cHk, cMK and cMP cleanly, but it’s not easy to distance properly.

don’t underestimate s.LK, it’s like Urien’s most underused move. It’s awesome against LOTS of low moves, and it’s the best way to deal with random Makoto dash-in’s (st. fierce works too but it gets useless against Makotos who can Hayate your whiffed fierce on reaction.) It’s also decent for tick throwing or to follow it up with an overhead

I use LOTS of st. MP’s outside of most characters’ sweep range. It’s a great anti-dash move, it’s fast, it builds meter decently, and it’s great against happy jump-parriers because if they parry it you still have lots of options (LP, MP chain as anti-air can also be quite useful). It can also stop tatsumakis on startup (VERY useful against Gouki). I think it’s Urien’s best move overall.

cLP is a great “get me out of trouble” move when crowded, but it’s weakness is it being parriable both low and high. Still, it can help in lots of situations to slow them down.

overall I try to put all of his moves in use. cMP can be deceiving when used sparingly, it’s hard to explain, sometimes I just feel to do it and it works :stuck_out_tongue:

s.HK does have it’s interesting uses. it hits so high above Urien’s head that it works well against non-meaty crossups, for example.

About defense… I honestly think Urien has one of the worst defense skills in the game. His only saving grace is the great throw range. He doesn’t have reliable defense techniques, defending with Urien = defending with bare bones 3s engine, no gimmicks.
Wait, wait, wait, block, tech throws… you need patience and good reflexes, since unless the opponent is predictable or you feel lucky, only a parry can break the pressure if the opponent knows the matchup well.
When you see a tick throw coming you can try to reversal LP headbutt It’ll hit them out of the throw and if they did cMP instead they won’t link to SAIII since you are airborne. Reversal EX headbutt can work too, and its payoff is great, but it’s slower AND its startup frames are still throwable unlike LP version (which is airborne from frame one), so choss wisely depending on the situation. Don’t substitute this to teching the throw, cause then they’ll fake tick -> parry and kill you.
Dash back when you can. Urien’s backdash is nice since he leaves the ground on most of its duration, it has a good range, and can bring Urien back to a good range (about max st.fierce range). Backdash, cHK can catch people off guard
Butf or the love of god, don’t get cornered doing that. Seriously, a cornered Q is god tier compared to cornered Urien.

Being too defensive with Urien is like the worst thing to do against anyone who knows how to fight against him. Best thing IMHO is applying a sort of “ranged pressure”, which can lie out of shoto’s sweep range, where both MK’s can still hit, st.Fierce slams most moves that extend opponent’s hitbox, and sMP can be spammed almost for free with little fear.

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So I guess the ability to mix it up has NOTHING to do with footsies… :rolleyes:

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Well, what I mainly had in mind was something like Aegis in the corner mixups, not really the actual ability itself.

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Well, bottom line…a urien needs to know ‘how’ to utilize his given attacks. Yes, they are slow and its hard to play footsies. At the same time it still a key element that will just help you in the long run. Combos/unblockables will get you nowhere if you cant get yourself into the situation. I mean Pierre is a prime example of a Urien who is excellent with his ground game. He knows when to attack and How, thus making it extremly hard for his opponent. Doesnt matter how ninja a shoto is, if he feels you are strong in your ground game…its going to slow him down, thus giving you more opportunity and breathing room to set up for your unblockables.

Footsies is still very important even if Urien doesnt have that strong or quick of a ground game. My point is, that all of our Uriens would be a lot better off learning both aspects instead of one.

Hol Horse: Defense is rough with Urien, but you pretty muc nailed it. Patience is key and the ability to break throws while ducking. I actually dont mind being in the corner with Urien. One good throw can turn it around for you, at the same time a good time parry and u still get mid screen unblockable going. It also forces your opponent to get into your range. If he tries to do the spacing game, thats when i usually jump straight up and watch to see what they do. Most players expect the rh and try to parry. If you are good at timing the rh deep, then bait the parry and counter parry (but its extremely hard to time). I also use low short now more so then low jab for that main reason, the jab can be parried high or low

J-Cole

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Whenever I play shotos against a Urien, I actually feel the opposite way. I feel like there’s nothing there that’s even remotely scary, so I actually play more confident, rather than being slowed down.

Although, yeah, it could be used to eventually lead to the bigger stuff.

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yeah i kinda agree with emphy. urien does have good pokes though, so it wouldnt hurt to use them effectively :). A-sim pretty much covered al lthe pokes. but i think focusing on cornering the opponent than footsies is more important with urien. i use c.mp then grab and try to unblockable, but dont count on it a lot. f+mp is a nice anti air, and if they parry it i’ll go for the grab hoping they will think i follow up with the hp.

but you might not wanna take my advice, i havent been playing for very long :smile:

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Emphy: I meant slowing down the shoto player so you can set up stuff. See you have a strong confidence in the match that the shoto can definately read. If you arent whiffing attacks,placing them right and not leaving yourself open…thats good footsies as well as excellent defense vs shotos. In turn you have more opportunities to punish them. It all comes together you know?

for some reason im more confident agaisnt Chun li then Shoto, its prob cause I play agaisnt some bs shotos all day…frankie, valle, watts, paul lee, edma. They piss me the fuck off lol, so I myself would like to build a better game plan agaisnt shotos.

MagnetoManiac: The ability to corner your opponent falls right under having good footsies, its all in the same man heh.

Another trick I use (more of a parlor trick then solid strat), is using 4 standing strongs to partition headbutt. I start it when my opponent is about 2 or 3 character lengths away, by the time I get to the 4th strong they have usually closed the distance. At that point I can either jab headbutt, ex headbutt, dash back-ex headbutt or dash forward (this being the risky one). Majority of the time it catches shotos off guard. Its definately one of those things u can only use about once or twice effectivly.

F+medium Punch (anti air): This move i think is by far his best anti air. do it early enough people hardly ever parry it. If they do, you can always counter parry and follow up in anyway. I have also partitioned this move to gain some ground then headbutt in opponents faces (works well cause nobody ever does it lol)

J-Cole

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Really cool thread, the most needed by far.

About the s.MP as anti-air, I sometimes cancel it into a MP Sphere (against noobs or if I feel lucky), or when I have the charge into a headbutt or EX headbutt, EX headbutt is really hard to parry if unexpected, and can land to a big combo. But also, I think you can be hit in the earlier frames, i’m not sure about it. Does anybody use it? Or i’m wasting meter in something stupid? =P

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Urien has a good dash, covers a lot of ground and pretty fast, and his legs have range. But once you have aegis, its all about… well… aegis!:wgrin:

But yeah footisies are important with Urien, more important against some characters than others.

But dont forget Urien is alright in the air as well, j.RH and j.Fierce… blaytant!!!

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Really good thread yea its true urien has to try and keep them damn shotos the hell off ,And yea Raju jump HK is too good :lovin:

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First off, props to Cole for a kickass idea for a thread.

I never really thought about it that much, but I think a defensive Urien is a dead one. Being good at footsies and all that is good for your game, but in my experience, when I’ve tried to just sit back and play defense, I get owned. I think Urien is best suited for semi-rushdown.

I think it is crucial for Urien to have to create openings and in my opinion the best way to do that is being tricky with your partitioning and rushing down.

That said, standing FP is great for stopping shotos in their tracks. On wakeup, crouching jab -> jab headbutt usually works good. I guess another tactic you can use a few times is jab -> short -> jab sphere xx aegis to keep them off of you if they are up close.

Also, when you have them in the corner, lots of times, doing early jumping roundhouses can keep them out, or jumping forward for a better angle.

Sometimes I find that a lot of Kens always attack when they jump in, leaving you a sweet opportunity to just down+fierce -> unblockable. Of course if you’re playing footsies they’re not going to be jumping, but maybe the solution to the footsies problem is to just not play your game that way? Of course there will always be situations when the game slows down or never picks up so it’s good to know that you need to stay at maximum standing fierce range against shotos. But also, don’t forget Urien’s long range sweep, which usually works well against Dudley.

Maybe unrelated, but kinda footsie-like is that Urien’s standing forward at max range is AWESOME against Dudley when you have him in the corner. It won’t whiff if he’s crouching unlike against Ken. Just wanted to throw that out there while we are on the subject of range and footsies.

Oh also I forgot to mention that a charge partitioned EX headbutt can be your defensive best friend. You can bust it when they jump or when they whiff certain moves on the ground.

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jump back ex headnutt when you land is toptier yes :wink:

@ gootecks: And to point one thing out: everytime Im dudley and I play vs urien, I usually buffer s.hk, s.mk wont come through that much, if the dudley pressed hk first you’re outprioritized… I have more problems with c.mk seeing as dudley doesnt have a good low move, except for c.hp in this situation

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Right on Gootecks thanks.

About that standing fk on dudley. Man that is one of my prime spacers, but I dont just throw it out. Majority of the dudley players out there spam st. RH like there is no tomorrow. Urien can actually SEE the st. RH whiff and get a free st. FK everytime. You have to have the reflexes, but its to good. Uslaly it makes them slow down on the rh’s which gives you window to change some things up and get a little rush or some low moves started. heh I love st. fk =D

As an escape route, I started busting out charge partion dash ,low jab into rh knee drop. Its to golden =) Or just low jab into rh knee drop when peeps are tryin to walk up on you.

J-Cole

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I’m pretty shotos CAN’T crouch it though.

Also,

Walking back won’t help you move forward.
Push, don’t force.
-The Way

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cole thats what i was saying, and u and watts were disagreeing with me.

uriens defense sucks, thats why he cant win tourneys very easily. hes like 90% offense.

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Uriens standing forward against shotos that are ducking is too random to be good. It depends on the animation of the breathing to IF it hits which is too random. Just taught i’ll throw that out there.

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I totally agree with this statement. I find being pinned under a good rush down is very difficult to get out unless you can recognize a pattern, get a c.Jab, or even a C.Jab > Jab HB to stop the momentum.

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Just for the record, which characters CAN’T duck the far forward?

Umm, nervermind the whole breathing thing, I mean can’t 100% of the time.

Another thing, since everyone is huge on wakeup (except chun) could you use the towards+strong x overhead chain on them as they get up?

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Yeah I use that sometimes, but it’s not too hard to see it coming so it’s not abusable at all