i don’t think akuma can beat sagat in fireball war generally speaking.
akuma > sagat. since vanilla and has never changed!
akuma mixup is too deadly and sagat is a big target for it.
No offence but your either opponent is reading you very good or you are too predictable with your mixups. Try switching up more or learning new setups.
Definately non taken, im just chilling man, im completely cool with criticism.
But can anybody show me videos of any decent sagat (which in Japan i only see bonchan during the Ssf4 console phase) getting bodied by the akumas?
Because its not what happened in the matches i could find of him facing top japanese akumas, they didnt body him at all.
The match is 6/4. I don’t see how a 60/40 fight means Sagat will get bodied.
i don’t think akuma can beat sagat in fireball war generally speaking.
yes he can, he can force him to go offense. you gotta be smart with your fireballs, usually jump a few to get in a good position to start shooting red hados.
also, standing LP at the correct distance (a bit far from point blank) can interrupt most sagat’s stuff (except TU but…if he’s doing TUs during st.lp pressure, then you can tell he’s too scared of pressure and you can take adv of that) Daigo used to do that a lot vs sagats when he mained Ryu.
and yeah I agree with shinakuma, the fact that its a 6-4 matchup for akuma doesnt mean sagat is free
Super’s st.LP is horrible, I’m not sure you can compare it to Ryu’s.
Also, Ryu’s st.LP has got 3 active frames.
You have to be careful in a FB war with 'Gat. The speed on those tiger shots can catch you during shaku start-up.
Go watch the video where Dragongod picks Akuma against Sanford’s Sagat at Guard Crush.
[media=youtube]djE0CIMFpo8[/media]
Ok guys, i’d really like to take some time to discuss this with you guys. You’ve always helped me a lot and i know that it’s possible to have a nice civilized discussion here, so i’ll tell you what i think and why i think this.
First of all, we have to forget Sf4, it is another game.
Second, just like i said, if Akuma can hit 6 vortex attempts on a Sagat and you show a video, that just shows how deadly Akuma can be if he can deceive the opponent and not how the matchup is 6.4
From what i understand, for a matchup to be 6.4 it means the character with the advantage must have something that he can abuse against the other character or that, in general, his strategies are more solid in most situations than the other character.
I do think that Akuma has a lot of abusable stuff against Sagat but what i’d like to point out is that the damage and stun nerf has diminished the effect of these abusable tricks and that eventually Sagat can escape this kind of tricks and if by any chance he is able to out guess one of this attempts he can lead to more damage than Akuma.
In the fireball war there’s no argument that Akuma has the advantage but you guys have to notice two things: Ultra 2 changes all of that even on full screen and there’s also another thing: if you’re playing a really patient Sagat he will engage the fireball war in such a distance that if he decides the Akuma will throw a wrong fireball he can try to guess and jump and if the Akuma does this wrong fireball he will cause massive damage. Now, if the Sagat is in the right distance the Akuma player can never do this: even if he jumps really early, Sagat is still able to recover himself in time to block Akuma’s jump. Now, if the Sagat guesses wrong and he doesn’t press any buttons, Akuma can’t Srk but he can do a f.s.hp but if the sagat decides to hit a button and the akuma decides to f.s.hp the trade is in Sagats favor.
This is because the range of Sagats j.HP, combined with his kara upper, can make sagat hit akuma from a really long distance.
Also, if they’re playing footsies utilizing fireballs to complement this game, Sagat can risk only one ex meter to get Akuma off of him and if the Akuma hit a button he will get hit and will be thrown away to the other side of the screen.
If Sagat plays a really patient game, managing to leave Akuma at the right distance, throwing well-thought fireballs he can punish several Ex demon flips by akuma with j.hp and he can still pressure Akuma with a patient game. If akuma starts to do all of his pressure, the Sagat player can start to block patiently for a long time, taking his time with his tech attempts and, even when Akuma hits a counterhit or two that leads to UKD, not always will the vortex hit Sagat hard on the second attempt and the game starts over.
This is what happens in both of these matches by Bonchan and Tokido: [media=youtube]ab1VhQW_YVE[/media]
Now, what i want to point out is that if the Sagat decides he will play Akuma like he can play other characters, Akuma will destroy him. Sagat has to play this matchup by being agressive without showing.
Again, in this match, Bonchan patiently wears Yuu’s game out and, to make it even worse, Akuma has to rely so much on execution that when he misses setups that would lead to UKD he has to try to re-gain all of his momentun and, on the other hand, Sagat is never put on this situation, only when he is knocked down and the Akuma manages to hit 2, 3 or 4 repetitions but, even so, sagat still has the chance to block a lot of stuff. [media=youtube]1Q3XpHA-6kI&feature=player_embedded#at=16]YouTube - Bonchan [Sagat] vs Yuu? [Akuma[/media]
Again: [media=youtube]W751AxrGZFk&feature=player_embedded#at=112]YouTube - Bonchan [Sagat] vs Yuu? [Akuma[/media]
Bonchan patiently punishes almost all of Akumas option, he know how to handle Akumas game and, in these games, he chooses ultra 2 which in my opinion is a must for Sagat against Akuma.
Also, here [media=youtube]jOzs_Y0f73k&feature=player_embedded#at=167]YouTube - Eita [Akuma] vs Bonchan[Sagat[/media] Eita, who has like one of the best vortexes in the Akumas business, is able to hit and deceive bonchan several times but again, that doesn’t lead him to win the match and when bonchan is finally able to escape the pressure, he returns to a safe, well-positioned game, that wears eita’s life slowly, showing his skill on handlin tech-hits, frame-traps and managing Akuma the way the match should be managed.
Now here: [media=youtube]xryoATz0TdM&feature=player_embedded#at=116]YouTube - Eita [Akuma] vs Bonchan [Sagat[/media] Eita is able to capitalize Akumas pressure to a win (and also a pretty good “random ultra”) at the end, showin the akuma has the tools to play him right.
What i’m just saying is that i think this match is even for both characters and that U2 has changed the face of this matchup in super. Looking at akumas just raping sagats with vortex is just pointing out how vortex can rape several characters and that doesn’t mean all of them are 6.4 because that doesn’t sum all the matchup. Sagat has ways to deal with the vortex and, when he does, he hurts akuma kind of bad.
On the other hand, akuma can pressure him a lot, but i can’t see where in this matchup the Akuma can lead to advantage play, i really believe it’s a match where both players can use they’re knowledge to points on the screen where both are capable of capitalizing their game, which is why i think it is 5.5.
Hope i could explain a little.
Cheers!
Ps: i expressed myself when i said ‘bodied’ hope this wall of text helps.
Dee Jay Matchup?
Ok so I would rate myself higher among the akumas online. Recently, the deejay matchup has been giving me a lot of trouble. My first problem is wake up game. Obviously Deejay has a very strong wake up game with ex upkicks as well as the other forward kick move he has. Vortexing him is extremely difficult but I guess that is just mindgames/anticipation. The other problem i have is keeping him out. That knee beats crouch fierce if done low enough and its very hard to react to it with shoryuken. His slide goes under fireballs and its just really hard to out footsie him. I mean i play jason coles deejay and I can beat him every once in a while but after like two matches he just has me downloaded and whatever I do it seems he has a counter for it. I know it is jason cole and he has god like footsies but i cant help but think that deejay can easily win this matchup. Do you guys have any tips?
Lol bonchan is one of the best players in the world. Any match is winnable but when it comes down to it, akuma has better fireballs, normals to keep sagat out, his st. RH hits twice, and better footsies overall. Also sagat is huge. If any player knows the vortex/is make the correct reads then he will obviously win the match. This goes both ways for both players.
Well Eita threw both his matches away when he was well in control.
Things to remember in this matchup.
Don’t get overly aggressive. Many Akuma’s even Eita and Tokido, just keep rushing Sagat, even when winning by a huge margin. Don’t do this. If you are winning force him to do something to get the match back.
Be comfortable with your fireball game. This is a must, as Sagat will need to run his fireball zoning to open you up. Become as good with fireballs as the Sagat player and you will understand why Akuma doesn’t lose fireball wars. Don’t throw the 3 hit shaku. Only two hit or less. It save you from those instances where you are about to recover but just get hit.
Take a couple of chances on your vortex. Sometimes you’re going to have to go for an option that can be TU. Either DF throw, cross over palm or crossup tatsu. Do this when he doesn’t have two bars so you don’t eat a fat combo.
Understand Sagat’s footsie options and how to deal with them. Sagat has a few preemptive footsie options to stuff your normals. look for these and learn how to bait and advance on them.
You gotta learn a frame trap that punishes crouch techs. Good Sagats are hard to throw and in order to generate some damage when you get in you will need to punish those crouch techs.
Above all, never, ever give Sagat free jump ins. Sagat is a huge character with a predictable jump arc. If he jumps within range you absolutely need to Anti-air him.
I went to the training mode to test some of the suggested OS against Bison, but I think (again lol) I’m doing something wrong.
I tried LK, MK, HK and EX Tatsu against some oh his options, but they all seem to get get crushed by a reversal EX PC.
LK Tatsu is supposed to beat it clean and MK to whiff, but they got stuffed and CH’d, which is odd since LK startup is 11 frame, enough to start before Dictator’s EX PC (should be 13f iirc). Could it be that I’m doing the OS too late?
I mean, I don’t think I screwed up the OS since the Tatsu doesn’t come out if he blocks, punishes backdash etc, but it gets beaten by the only option I’d like to negate.
Any ideas?
Yeah… I played a really good Dee Jay last night and it seems there was nothing I could do. I mean, I zoned him out pretty well, but there weren’t many options for me to get in there and do damage. You can’t pressure him on wakeup because of his upkicks. You have to be carefull of your ground or air FB game when he has EX meter. He doesn’t have too many normals or specials you can punish, except if you can somehow cause him to whiff his up kicks or do a random Ultra.
I know ShinAkuma204 said to use safe DF palm setups on his wakeup to bait upkicks, but a good DJ will know you’re going for this and either tech your throw or block knowing you can’t really do anything other than finish your block string and back off.
He’s like a much more annoying version of Guile in Super. I’m hoping he gets a nerf in AE because, damn… At least make his up kicks have less “priority” or make some of his moves recover some more to punish wrong choices because now, it seems DJ players can’t really make any against Akuma.
I thought empty jumping and then crouchteching or cr.mk work good against his upkicks on wakeup as your hitbox lowers enough to not get hit? After letting him know he can’t keep on doing EX upkicks on wakeup, you can apply pressure again and occasionally emptyjump again as part of your mixup.
Dee-Jay is annoying. I played a solid one in ranked just earlier, got beaten. I managed to tatsu-sweep him and all, but then his EX UK just beat all my options. Best way to approach it is like the Guile match: just keep FB’ing him until he loses charge. Advance slowly.
EDIT: Forgot to add - I faced a NASTY Akuma in endless today, went by the tag of xxxRAD. Dude was nuts with his hit-confirms, he even tatsu-swept me (I thought Akuma couldn’t be swept?). Anyway, I came so damn close to stealing one match off him. Guys like him make it obvious why Akuma is top-tier.
Akuma is the only shoto that you can tatsu>sweep.
Dan says hi.
Technically he isn’t a shoto since his fighting style is Sakiyo 