Universal PCB (eventually) thread

Exactly, don’t want to hack up my Sega Universal.

It is out there in Japanese :slight_smile: , I’ve translated enough to give me working code decoding traffic between Naomi and I/O board, in Linux through a RS-485->USB serial adapter. I will put up what I’ve got on JVS once I figure this PIC stuff out (got the pickit2 a couple of days back :)). Right now it’s a bit in my head, a bit in a crappy translation and a bit in ugly hack code :slight_smile:

I wil indeed use the UART, but you need a transceiver to drive the signals on the cable. Right now I’m pulling my hair out trying to figure out all the different clocks on the 4550 to get proper baud-rate.

For the UPCB to control a JVS game, it will be JVS slave - the game is master. PC interfacing is the opposite, i.e the circuit is master, polling the I/O board. A lot of the routines like picking JVS packets off the cable, calculating checksums etc will be identical. I’ll post a note here once I got something of substance.

I’ll probably be in to buy a few of these from you too. They’re just plain sexy. :slight_smile:

Invism: Honestly for a protocol interface it’s probably easier to just go through a picaxe-08m than try to code it on a PIC, but this is the bad taste in the mouths of my crew talking. None of us are huge PIC fans, though I do like what Toodles has done with them!

this is the coolest thing ever. I’m definitely going to watch this topic so I know when its ready to buy. I’m sure at least 1,000 people have a demand for this.

I appreciate the kind words. I’ll be picking up the parts I need to finish testing tomorrow, and hopefully have a green light for getting quotes by the end of the weekend.

Heh, I like your optimism, but Im rather a pessimist myself. But, if there were 1,000 preorders, then it’d be CHEAP to get them made in that kind of amount.

If you’re lazy like me, it’s very straightforward to just plug a db-15 joystick extension cable (monoprice sells them) into the upcb and run it out of the existing hole for the original cable.

totally off topic:
I HATE C18 SO VERY, VERY MUCH!!!

the pic-c compiler from ccs is so incredibly much more user friendly, but it’s not free and seem to lack good functions to control the FIFO buffer.

slightly on topic:
Toodles: can you manage to use the function Open1USART without compiler/linker errors?

You mean OpenUSART(), right? :slight_smile: AFAIK, the 4550 only has 1 USART, so you shouldn’t use the digit. But to directly answer the question, I’ve never tried.

you are of course right, I looked TOO hard, which I had to when trying out the xlcd library, and somehow had the impression the 4550 had two usarts. Gonna give it a new try tomorrow.

I was prototyping on pic-c, but got “looping”. Because rs-485 is half-duplex, what you send out, you will also get into your receiving buffer - unless you disable the rx while you transmit - trick is then, to know when the TX FIFO emptied so you can disable TX and enable RX again. C18 has a function to check this.

BTW, if you want to play, all you need to hook up your naomi or I/O controller to the PIC is a rs485 transceiver, like the ADM485.

Will get a 20mhz crystal this week to put on my breadboard, so our code is compatible hw wise.

Hey Toodles, I’m putting a Jameco order in tonight and wondering what changes from the parts list from v1 to v2 should be noted, as I’m going to be ordering at least a couple v2 PCBs from ya when they come out.

The button connector and two piggyback connectors were originally 16 pin IDC connectors; they are now 20 pin IDC connectors in the new rev. (the other 16 pin IDC connector was for the output DB-15, and is still a 16 pin IDC) Make sure there are two additional pull up resistors (4.7k-10k, doesnt matter) for the two extra buttons, just as if you wanted the ‘two extra buttons’ options on the first one. Otherwise, parts are all the same.

Another mad genius!
Great work, i’ll definitely be gettin’ some, if you ship outside us though.

:d: i’m not in a hurry, so i don’t really care if i get it in 2 months+ x)
I don’t have time to work on my sticks anyway (damn java takin’ my time :sweat: )

I have no problem shipping outside of the US, but the shipping is killer, especially if you want it there in under two weeks.

Hoping to get the request for assembly quotes out by tomorrow night.

Thanks Toodles; as for the shipping, if it’s just PCBs and not kits, you should be able to get flat-rate international, which even express doesn’t get that cheap. Once you start packing kit boxes though, it can go up fast. My crew and I ship between the US and Canada a lot, so if you need some advice on getting the best international rates out of USPS/couriers I’ll put you in touch with my guy.

Yeah I’m still trying to decide whether it’s worth getting a kit, or just a board and source my own parts. I need to remember to track down local part prices (i.e. open one of the catalogues at work).

Actually I may possibly buy three PCBs since I have three PICs and nothing else to do with the spares… :xeye:

That’s not a problem, I’ll do my best to make sure there are extra PCBs. I should note that any kit prices for pre-order won’t include the PIC. As spendy as they are to buy, and easy to sample, it just seems silly. I’ve been hunting for places to get them cheaper, and Newark seems to have them for just under $11 each if memory serves, so I will be picking some up to sell with kits for those who don’t want to sample, but the planned kits don’t come with a PIC by default.

And yes, the offer to program PICs is and will always be open, whether you buy from me or not.

Hmm, using DigiKey prices (simply for ease of being online since I’m at home and all the catalogues are at work) I’d end up spending $41.09NZ ($32.18US) on components for one PCA (ribbon cables taking up almost half of that cost by themselves, but with plenty to spare for any other projects for the next eight hundred years. 5’ minimum length sucks).

Components for three PCAs would be $89.86NZ ($70.38US), including not needing to triple the ribbon lengths.

If I were to assume the same prices for bare boards and kits this time around as for the previous run (I don’t know how likely that is but it gives me a baseline), getting parts as a kit would save me about $16US for one board, or about $22US for three boards, but that doesn’t take shipping into account.

Working with the $5US air / $20US express estimated shipping costs to NZ that Toodles gave in the Trading Outlet thread, then getting kits is indeed cheaper than local parts.

That’s an awfully large number of assumptions I made, however. Take it with a grain of salt until I check out the other suppliers (primarily JayCar and/or DSE and/or possibly my workplace), Toodles comes up with prices and relative shipping costs between bare PCBs and kits are calculated.

People NOT living in New Zealand (i.e. probably everyone else in this thread) will have to perform their own calculations, but mine might help to give you an idea.

I should also add that I don’t need to ship my PICs off to get programmed as I can do that at work. Anyone who does require that will need to spend more on shipping, though it likely won’t affect a kit/local parts comparison.

Open For Preorders!

Prorders for assembled UPCBs are now open. The pre-order price is $45.00, and doesn’t include shipping or a PIC, but everything else.

Numbers are based on the first quote that has come back. If the second quote is less, I’ll come back and update the numbers, but I doubt it will.

Everything on the board will be soldered and ready to be installed. The only things not included are the PIC, and the shipping. The only soldering that will need to be done is to solder the ribbon cable to the female DB15 output. 15 solder points and that’s it. (I debated using the blue IDC Dsub 15 thingy from last time, but that blue piece is just too much of a bitch to install. If you have a left over motherboard to gameport cable, you can use that instead and not have to solder anything. If anyone knows where I could pick such cables up in bulk I’d appreciate it, but I can’t find any source for a reasonable price. Something like this: http://www.intolan.com/MIDI_Gameport_Back_plate_Adapter_p/misc-bkplt-game.htm )

Kit will include:
-UPCB board, with all components installed and soldered (No PIC. 40 pin IC socket is soldered in place, ready for PIC to be installed.)
-3x 20 pin female IDC connectors. These are the pieces that go on the ribbon cable and plug into the UPCB for the buttons and/or piggyback connections.
-1x 6 pin polarized female connector. This is what plugs into the UPCB for the stick. Take your JLF harness or whatever wire you’re connecting to the stick, crimp the pins, insert into the connector, and plug into the board.
-7x crimp pins for above. I included a spare in case of human error.
-1 meter rainbow colored 20 conductor ribbon cable, for connecting buttons, the output DB15, and piggybacks
-1x 16 pin female IDC connector, for connecting the UPCB to the output DB15.
-1x female DB15 for the output connector
-1x 2 pin female connector for program button. If you want a program button, crimp the two wires to the pins below, insert into this connector, and it plugs right into the board.
-3x crimp pins for above.

Board will NOT have any DB15s soldered to it; if you want to use it as a NeoGeo->Whatever converter, you’ll have to solder those on yourself. Since most people will want this in a stick, no need for everyone to pay for something few people use.

As anyone knows, the per unit cost goes down by volume. The price of $45.00 secures a preorder for an assembled UPCB and the extra bells and whistles. This is the worst case cost; if I can get preorders for 35 pieces, everything will be kopasetic. If I can’t get 35 preorders, then I wont be able to afford the assembly. I’m a man of my word though; If I dont get 35 orders, I’ll be assembling these by hand for those that did preorder, and there will not be any assembled UPCBs available for those that didn’t preorder. God that would suck though. If I can get 65 units preordered, the preorder price will drop to $40. Anyone that preordered 1 unit at the $45 price will have the difference used to pay for shipping. If they ordered more than that, paypal refunds will be given immediately after shipping has been paid. If I can get preorders for 100 units, the price will go significantly down, but I havent crunched the numbers yet because Im a bit of a pessimist.

After the preorder, the price will go up to $5+preorder price. If I get 65 preorders, $45. 35 pre-orders, $50. Less than that, no assembled boards will be available.

Some very good news though: The price of the PIC has gone WAY done since last run. Newark has them at just under $5 each (http://www.newark.com/08J9678/semiconductors-prototyping/product.us0?sku=MICROCHIP-PIC18LF4550-I-P). For those that pre-order, I’ll be offering to get the PIC for $6. After the shipping cost, I may make a few cents, but since I can order the bunch prepaid, I wont be putting any of my money at risk. Price for the PIC will also go up a dollar or two after the preorder is closed. As always, I’ll program any PICs sent to me for free. This is just to be nice to those that preorder that dont want to mess with sampling their own.

Testing: All boards will be tested by me before they get shipping to the end user. I am setting up some equipment to make this as fast and painless as possible; you can be confident that the board you receive will work right out of the box.

How long will it take? This pre-ordering window will be open until midnight MST Feb 16th. I expect the worst case scenario for getting everything ordered, shipped, assembled, and shipped to me, and shipped back out to you, will take 4-6 weeks from the time I place the order Monday Feb. 18th.

If you wish to secure your part of the pre-order batch, paypal $45 each to toodlesdc SPLAT yahoo . com. Shipping costs or PICs costs can be paid later if you wish. Estimate US shipping to be $5 for every two. Any extra from actual shipping cost will be refunded.

Many of you purchased hand assembled UPCBs from me at the cost of $62 each, the price Numbski paid for the ebay auction for an assembled UPCB. I sincerely hope none of you will be offended by the lower cost for an assembled UPCB; I should have made it clear that assembled boards would likely be available in the future for less if there is enough demand. If it weren’t for people like you, I likely wouldn’t be doing this to begin with, so you do have my thanks.

For those of you wanting bare PCB’s, they will be available for $12 for 1, $10 each for 2, and if you want 3 or more, get ahold of me over PM.

Please feel free to ask any questions. I’ll be sitting here with knots in my stomach wondering if there really is enough interest in the community to pull this off.

PM sent

Can we map six buttons with Jamma using this PCB?

Im not certain I understand fully what you’re asking. If you’ll describe you’re setup and what you’re trying to do, I’ll answer as best I can. I’m guessing you’re thinking about using a UPCB inside a Jamma cabinet with an existing Jamma board, like a MVS system, and wanting to know if you can use the button remapping so, say for instance, you can switch the buttons from a 2x2 layout to a curved four, like I do when switching from Garou/KOF2k2 to SamSho/TwinkleStarSprites/Last blade. If so, then yes, it most definitely can. I do that all of the time when playing my consolized MVS.

Describe your setup and what you’re thinking and I’ll try to explain how best to do it.