I think this has been mentioned before (actually, I’m pretty sure), but I think a simple nerf to Zero that wouldn’t drive him into the floor is just to have Raikousen not come out if it’s cancelled by the charged buster… maybe it doesn’t come out if he doesn’t do that dash across the screen that precedes the lightning bolt. It gets rid of some (SOME) of his ridiculous mix-ups.
doesn’t solve the problem of him still being able to kill you from any hit, meter neutral or positive and then put you into a layered mixup with a 0.00001% chance of escape.
Zero just needs a huge damage reduction nerf, similar to Taskmaster because his old easy ass BnB did nearly 740k assistless, and now that shit does 620k, even with the mashable super and it’s the same combo.
Zero needs his specials to scale down to 10%, compared to 40%. That way, it also indirectly nerfs his meter gain and makes him burn more resources and work harder to secure a kill.
Some things I’d like to see. Still WIP.
or
[details=Spoiler]HONORABLE MENTION: GHOST RIDER
I would like to talk about GR first, extensively, due to the fact that I hate how bad he is and yet how good he can become, or should have been,
in the first place. A character who zones with physical attacks, yet they are not the character’s own limbs, is very rare. As such,
GR’s changes should not, ever, be taken very lightly so we can keep this character from being bad if he’s so unique. First, let’s look
at WHY Ghost Rider is bad:
His zoning SUCKS. While he does have one of the highest ranges in the game on short hand (able to produce widely attacking ranges without
being forced to commit to them completely with normals, unlike other characters who have to use specials to zone, which are only usually cancelable
with hyper, xfactor, etc), he also has one of the slowest, most sluggish forms of zoning possible in the game, even while being made to do
this particular role. He has no air specials (like Chris), his only long range projectile is EXTREMELY slow on startup (but is very nice
once it actually becomes active), his anti-air j.H is very nice (SOMETIMES) but can by no means be followed up in any way practical,
and his mobility is very bad. In short, Ghost Rider’s…
Pros:
+Zones using physical attacks, not projectiles, effectively evading any trades
+Unlike most zoners, he is able to use a special after beginning his zoning
+Very long range, c.H hits nearly everyone from fullscreen on the ground and is a low
+Can create a very nice projectile on the ground that eats many other projectiles
+Nearly fullscreen (although considerably limited) combo potential
+Decent nearly fullscreen fast wallbouncing assist
Cons:
-Very slow all around
-No air mobility or specials at all
-Very slow, sluggish and predictable zoning
-No practically advantageous projectiles for use against rushdown or zoning; back heavy is nice, but it isn’t exactly “advantageous”
-Cannot convert almost any hit from max range into a combo
-DP+M, his main combo tool, fails at certain ranges to hit some when crouching, or even all of the hits when hitstun activates
-No air combo potential
-No anchor potential at all
-Cannot convert TK j.S into a combo without assist
-Antiair is decent, but cannot convert in any way into a combo nor better his position; they are already near him if he had to
jumping heavy, right on top of him at that
-Lastly, he doesn’t…actually hit fullscreen. Why.
And I’m sure I haven’t even gone over every pro/con about him-mostly cons-but this is more than enough.
Proposal:
The main problem I have with Ghost Rider is, he has no air specials! Not just because he has no air options, but because he has
nothing to do in the air once he actually tries it (j.S) he doesn’t have a reason to jump half of the time, and when he does,
he asks himself, “Why did I even try that?” The next would be the speed of his zoning tools and the ridiculous flaws on his actual
DECENT tools, and lastly something to help him with grabbing decent combos off of the times he actually lands a hit. Ghost Rider
demands too much committment and risk for not very much reward or safety in what he does compared to the better characters.
-All medium and heavy normals, excluding crouching heavy, are reduced in startup, but not recovery
-All heavy normals will now reach fullscreen, including the followup of standing heavy
-Jumping heavy will now swing in a wider arc
-Chain of Rebuttal and Chain of Punishment now have his chain straighten out more and their hitboxes adjusted, enabling all hits
to connect properly if the first connects
-Chain of Punishment also adjusted so that it cannot whiff on crouching opponents, including Viewtiful Joe, Arthur, Rocket Raccoon,
and low crouching characters such as Morrigan
-Judgement Strike’s startup reduced slightly, recovery reduced as well
-NEW SPECIALS: Air Chain of Rebuttal (L), Air Chain of Punishment (M) and Air Judgement Strike (H) (Explanation Below)
-Hellfire Maelstrom hyper now vertically pulls the opponent into the center rather than pushing them vertically outward; horizontal
push and final hits remain the same, all hits will connect
Air Chain of Rebuttal, Punishment and Judgement Strike will allow him to zone much more effectively while still requiring him to commit to
what he does, making it harder for opponents to simply jump over him. Ghost Rider’s instant jumping S is great, but before this change
he has no way of doing anything if it lands without an assist. Being able to use Judgement Strike will allow him to convert that hit into
a combo, canceling the jumping S into the move and landing, connecting a ground normal afterwards to continue.
Another possibility is to use Chain of Rebuttal or Punishment to cover other parts of the screen, using jumping S to attack the ground and canceling it into
Chain of Rebuttal to attack the area above him if they jump or Chain of Punishment to attack the middle of the screen as well. Also, using
a jump-back heavy as an antiair and converting into a combo with Chain of Rebuttal. Many other zoning characters are able to confirm into
combos from many different projectiles and hits from different parts of the screen; it seems only fitting that the character using physical
attacks to do so is able to as well.
Using this, Ghost Rider would be able to effectively “box” his opponent into a section of the screen without needing to corner them, using
his various air and ground normals along with his new air specials to prevent them from simply jumping out easily. His most apparent weakness,
close combat, is still very vulnerable to abuse as it should be; if he lets the opponent get out, he’ll be in for a tough time.
-==================================================================================
Amaterasu:
-Damage boost all around.
Possible change:
-Devout Beads stance air heavy now swings much wider in its radius
One thing I see about characters like Ammy is that, as they would have her/these characters on anchor most of the time, they
only do well as an anchor when they don’t have to blow through an entire team to win, but are extremely good at holding their own once
the playing field is in their favor, such as being last against the other player’s last character, or two characters without xfactor.
(Rocket Raccoon and MODOK as anchors are another great examples of this) I’m not sure exactly how this would be changed to help Amaterasu,
but the problem may lie within her extreme damage incapabiliity, which I would say desperately needs a boost. This will help
her deal with any other remaining threats after her xfactor runs out and help her be a better point character in general.
Otherwise, Ammy seems fine. A possible change would be to give her whip more usage by increasing the range on her jumping heavy
while in Devout Beads stance, enabling it to have much better “brief zoning”, and also to increase the possibility of long-ranged
rushdown. Devout Beads jumping heavy canceled into Head Charge/Weapon Change resembles some forms of zoning where the player would
stall in the air while attacking the ground, or even approaching this way; however, its jumping heavy is much too awkward a hitbox
for this use as is, and does not actually cover the amount of options one would think it should as a 360 swinging attack.
Arthur:
-Golden Armor Break is now a soft knockdown instead of a super-ultra-hard knockdown
I have no idea why his armor break was made a hard knockdown. This is possibly one of the most baffling mechanics in this game
to me, the armor break can stay, but make it a SOFT knockdown so that he can roll out and defend himself for the upcoming rushdown. He’ll
still be able to keep them in blockstun to protect himself and he can even use an assist or a THC to cover his break, etc. This is the
ONLY change I would propose to Arthur as he is potentially very strong without the huge weakness of hard knockdown armor break, as golden
armor makes him indeed, very strong. The jumping S changes were one of just the things he needed; perhaps a ground dash would be nice, but it
may be unnecessary and, as CAPCOM intends, it would not be in his character. Though…perhaps just make his dash animation the same as his run (SF Dan)?
Chris:
-Grenades usable in the air ONCE (does NOT force him to land, is able to act afterward)
-Grenade Launcher hyper first hit now knocks down long enough for the second hit to connect at all times
-Grenade Launcher hyper hits both the point character and any assists with the same properties as the point character
That’s literally all you have to do. Dunno if you’d really want to make them like Cable’s, where he
slows his momentum when he uses them, but it would definitely be helpful to him when it comes to air play. Yes, everyone thought he
was going to be the new Cable at one point (and Deadpool too, but that’s a different story); why is that a bad thing? Chris is still
a ground character; he still has to commit to a much riskier style of play for the same rewards other characters can get as well.
Airborne grenades would ONLY explode if it hits the ground, or an enemy is in the proximity of its explosion radius, sending the fire in the same spread it would
be on the ground, a falling hitbox. Not only does this help him deal with air zoning, but it also gives him ways to deal with ground zoning without
it ONLY covering the ground. It also helps create a small wall against rushdown for a short time without being “spammable”, and he still
does not have a forward shot in the air; I believe CAPCOM wants to keep it that way, which I do respect, but they need to give Chris SOMETHING
against air play. Here is your answer.
Hulk:
-Standing heavy has two hits of armor
Will still be destroyed by assists covering your rushdown or things such as multi-hitting moves, but more useful in its intended application.
[/details]
I know some people may want Zero’s buster to get nerfed but I think its fine just like Co-jones said his damage needs to be reduced at least make it so zero has to burn through his meter to be able to kill even with assist
GIVE DOCTOR STRANGE A FUCKING AIR DASH
post saying Ammy Chris and Hulk need buffs.
I can’t.
That will instantly solidify Strange’s top 1 of the game. Except this time, it wont be a joke.
Ammy needs a damage increase Imo. Nothing else.
But Hulk and Chris? When did they NOT need buffs? 
I actually agree with shoultz that we don’t understand the game enough to really patch it at this point. However, if we were to adjust things here are my current thoughts on what to do to Viper:
Overall goals of changes: Reduce her ability to indefinitely zone the low tiers, make her guessing less free, stabilize meter/damage with more of the cast members, balance focus attack for a game that has assists in it. In exchange for making her less dominant in those areas increasing her ability to be places other than point to encourage more diverse team compositions with her and increasing her aerial options in order to keep her exceptionally strong, but less unbalanced.
Spoiler
Nerfs:
-EX seismo only jump cancellable on block and hit, no longer on whiff: The goal of this is to make the move less braindead but still powerful, being able to do a reversal and still being able to get out of it on whiff is not reasonable.
-All versions of seismo have 1 frame more start up: Seismic hammer is too good, but adjusting it too dramatically takes away a lot of the fun elements of how Viper plays. Making the start up slightly longer makes it less oppressive in neutral.
-Reduce block stun of regular seismos by 1 frame: Reducing the advantage on seismo paired with the increased start up helps all of the characters she zones out, which is the vast majority of the cast. I don’t want to go overboard, so 1 frame is all I’d think to do for now. With additional testing may change.
-Reduce base damage level by 10% (meter reasons) make damage scaling harsher for all of her moves: There’s no reason that she should be able to zone like she does and do over 700K with no meter and no assists. She uses meter far too well for her to get access to it as easily as she does. This change is another one to keep her in tact for how she plays, while reducing some of the unfairness in the process.
-Reduce Emergency Combination invulnerability to just the first punch (For balancing it with other invulnerable hypers and counterbalancing a buff): Emergency Combination has a lot of silly properties, its invulnerability doesn’t need to be that long to beat things that it needs to beat, and it fairs more reasonably against other invulnerable hypers.
-Either make focus never unblockable, or remove crumple and reduce hit stun against aerial opponents: it’s not reasonable for it to have both properties attached to all of the other things that Viper has.
-Remove soft knock down on Burning Kicks (air and ground): Only for counterbalancing a buff. Would remove how she currently ends combos in a lot of situations.
Buffs:
+Feint Emergency Combination any time before the first active frame, 1 frame recovery: This gives her a safe way in to make her more reasonable in positions other than point, allowing her more versatility for team composition.
+Make X-factor 2 not prevent her from feinting fierce thunderknuckle on hit: Removing capabilities in X-factor unless more universally developed doesn’t seem like a reasonable decision.
+Replace Seismic Hammer assist with laser assist: This again gives her dramatically more uses as support. It gives people the opportunity to decide between a good assist for unblockables and once already winning to a more dominant neutral assist for screen control. May require reducing the laser’s durability.
+Burning kick feint on hit, as of her thunder knuckles, 2 frame window (air and ground): This is the only on point buff I thought would be reasonable to give her. It encourages her to leave the ground more. As I see it right now if Viper has very little incentive to do this. This has minimal impact on her oppressive situations but helps give her greater overall balance. Additionally it supports creative usage of tools and improves with time investment as opposed to being autopilot.
+If all of the nerfs end up being too painful, make Burning kick feint reset air dash/double jump: This would make her mobility incredibly powerful. I think it’s a change that makes her more fun to play.
Use a spoiler tag, mang.
Chris is already a strong high damage character with very good durability on his long range projectiles and “decent” close range normals. He’s even best supported by two solid shells of characters that work well with each-other (Dante Strider) (Spencer Sentinel). Sure he gets bodied by characters like Vergil, but weren’t we nerfing that type of shit from the get-go?
As for hulk, Kane Blue River makes top players look like babies with a controller in their hands because he has a a team built around magnifying the impenetrable wall that hulk is. Giving him 2 hits of armor on st.H would 1: make him even dumber up close, what with the move being a 360, Throw-OS’ing, Groundbounce into hardknockdown causing, armored wheel of death; and 2: Giving him a hit confirmable empty cancel from st.H into his command grab or a hyper (basically he’d be able to see that you’d just whiffed 2 hits through his armor and cancel into whatever). It would also help him through zoning more than I think he deserves to be helped, given that the second charge off of his gamma charges already has hyper armor (?)(I know that it absorves more than one hit, it even goes through Plasma beam L,M and Eye of Agamottos)
Ammy damage buff I’d be down with if everyone’s x-factor was nerfed. I already think she’s a solid character with okay-ish mixup (instant overheads, ghetto tri-jumps that are very succesful, as marlinpie used to show), a versatile moveset (counters to zoning, fullscreen projectile presence, hit confirmable 360 normals in the air [both her stance j.Hs], 2 solid hypers) and she has decent normals (cr.L, both her dashing Ms, j.S, j.H, j.L ioh).
She isn’t upper echelon for sure, but as a support character I already feel like she’s good. A bit above sentinel, which is what support characters should be, IMO.
And yet Chris gets outzoned by anyone with decent air play. I don’t really believe damage is a big factor either. He doesn’t exactly do well against air rushdown either. This is why Chris needs help. Assists alone aren’t going to make Chris better, especially when you consider the opponent can use those assists too. That’s why I tend to exclude assists in this kind of situation.
And yes, Hulk SHOULD be that stupid up close, because if he ever even manages to get that close to you, you should be in deep shit. But there are many factors in play that stop him from doing what he should be doing, much of it character specific; to the point where if you don’t have Haggar and/or Sentinel (etc), you won’t have a good time at all.
Dude, your changes do not fix the ONE THING that people see chris lacking severely, which is presence in the opposite upper corner of the screen. You specifically said that that’s the thing you wanted the character to keep the same, which is questionable when you look at the rest of the game and Magneto can snipe you in the opposite corner of the screen with a 7frame beam, then air dash forward magnetic blast into free pressure. He has an ok anti-air with f+H and cr.M works situationally, so yeah, he struggles with anti-airing people, but it’s very hard to fix that because of how short his limbs are (no swords, no extra powers glowing on his hands, just an ordinary man). At most you could make his st.L like RYU’s (very good).
>>I personally feel like the first change is all he really needs, just something to keep people honest, a move similar to his df+H, but with a back+H command that shoots forward and does 90k (df+H damage). Seems ok to me, doesn’t lead to anything big, but keeps people from just doing shit freely.
As for hulk, I don’t understand why there’s this notion that a hulking character with a shitload of life should be able to be reckless when he’s on you. But even giving you that, st.H wouldn’t be the saving grace that would buff him in anyway against the characters he already struggles with. Most top tier characters have amazing movement that allows them to keep away from hulk throught the whole match so that they don’t even have to deal with him, either that or they have huge multi-hit hitboxes that easily deal with any armor he has. Only thing I see this accomplishing is making him even scarier when next to lower tier character who have poor mobility/escape options, slow/short range normals, and bad specials.
>>If hulk did need a buff (personally disagree) it would have to be something dealing with his mobility, to make him not as hopeless when fighting against highly mobile characters.
>>Either that or make his mixup game scarier. It’s already strong, but make it so he can charge during throws, thus giving him the ability to otg opponents after a ground grab or command grab .
It helps him by letting him stay in the air. Df shots don’t change momentum, unfortunately. I’m trying to stay on their side and stray away from forward air shots, but he should at least be able to stall himself or change his momentum. This, as well as being able to nullify a bit of some hell, would help indirectly.
Knowing this, Chris players would want to give the other player hell when their air time actually ends, forcing them to land into fires WITHOUT being destroyed in the process of making them himself. Then he may actually land a hyper from that range if needed, now that grenade hyper does not fail if they’re hit while airborne from so far.
I can’t say I agree with giving Hulk mobility. That’s a very, very sketchy idea. I’m still thinking of a way to make Hulk less undesirable, but for now making s.H a bit more of a threat when it needs to be is my only change.
I think Chris needs afew buffs but I’m not really a chris player but there is a spot where he can’t shoot but then again you can get an assist to cover that spot as for the hulk I think he is good enough with the right team
Iron Man: Give him his Vanilla air dash back. His UMvC3 air dash is horrible. It didn’t need to be changed in Ultimate, and right now, its very bad. Very, very bad. Yes, he’s always been a poor man’s Magneto in the Marvel 3 series, we get that, but give him his original air dash back. Iron man has no approach without it.
Ghost Rider: Let him chain ABC. He can’t rapid fire his jabs, and he can’t chain ABC? Come on.
Have fire brands fireballs cause soft knockdown to opponents yah!
So I want to go over She-Hulk and Thor, my primary characters I’ve spent the most time with. I’m also basing these on the assumption that the higher tier characters get nerfs.
She-Hulk
Spoiler
-
Give her a double jump
This would basically help her get over some assists and projectiles because right now she can’t do anything. There really isn’t much she can do against zero or morrigan, giving her a double jump would help her navigate a field of projectiles and essentially step over characters hit boxes to cover ground easier and get air throws. Sure she can call an assist or do a super jump to help but what’s to stop any other character from just dashing under the super jump to create space or simply happy birthday the assist? Because she is so ground based and has no long range option, she needs help in the mobility department and that’s where a double jump comes in. -
Give her blocking after canceling Runners Start back motion (down, down S, hold back then S)
I don’t understand why she is vulnerable? The whole reason for doing the wall jump is so that you can get closer to your opponent and hopefully navigate over projectiles. But when you cancel her jump with S, you are completely vulnerable until you hit the ground and defeats the purpose of doing the wall jump in the first place. It’s just better to press L and attack on your way down but you are still vulnerable to a lot of moves and now you’re just taking a risk. You can’t even call an assist while doing this so it’s a huge risk and for a character with so many weaknesses you can’t afford to take a risk in this game. -
Buff Lamp Post (back+H)
This move almost ruins her back plink dash if you make a mistake, of course the pros won’t but then again the pros aren’t using her. What this move needs is faster start up, faster recovery and enough durability to go through soul fist. This is the only mid screen poke she has and it has a ton of potential to be a good move, it just isn’t. Capcom wanted to be very careful with her because they thought she was broken in Vanilla so gave her this move in Ultimate and as a downside they made her taunt after using it. Of course you can runners start cancel out of lamp post and recover faster but the move is virtually useless that there is no reason why you’d ever want to use it. Giving it durability to break projectiles would make her a bit scary to zone against at mid screen and would give her more ways to approach a match up. -
Buff Taking out the Trash (DP super)
This is a good super and with the right read will destroy zero (since he’s always fucking jumping around like a douche) but the problem is that because it uses a wall bounce you are losing all your damage potential. I suggest 1 of 2 options, either 1.) reset the wall bounce after they hit the wall so that you can go into emerald cannon and get your damage back or 2.) increase the start up and height of the move so that you can’t mash up dash on incoming to escape. I also like the idea of giving her a way to control the super with your joystick so that you can go straight above her as well as diagonally. -
Buff her command grabs (qcf+atk)
There are two ways they could seriously buff this move, either 1.) allow her to cancel from a command throw into a super OR runners start or 2.) increase the start up to 1 frame like weskers or spencers. I think option 2 is more fair because option 1 allows you to enter and leave runners start within 2 frames making you very safe in most situations or if she could cancel into super you could easily command throw ground and cancel into taking out the trash if they jump for a ghetto unblockable. Give her option 2, now she can really punish whiffed attacks and hypers and doesn’t need some whacky situation where she gets close enough to command grab you.
Reason I don’t really care about buffing her slide (cr.H) is because you can cancel that to runners start and stay safe. It’s actually very hard for someone to punish you once you put them in block stun with slide due to the recovery of runners start and canceling it. If they buffed her so that she could block after back runners start like I talked about above, then she would have safe pokes because you could cr.H, runners start, then hold back to create space, but really, she-hulk doesn’t want to create space so this is fair imo.
Thor
Spoiler
Ok this character is actually fine IMO and only needs very small changes to make him a little better, I know because I blow up mags and zeros all the time with this character. His speed is fine, his damage is great and his health is the best in the game. I’m not going to ask for a magneto 2.0 because thor already kind of is, he just operates a bit differently and where mag’s normals are great, thor has better specials.
-
Buff his grounded normals, specifically his st. L
I think his cr.L and cr.M are fine on block (obviously they suck on whiff and that’s ok), cr.M is harder to punish but otherwise those moves are fine. The problem is his st.L. Seriously, it looks like he wants to shake your hand. I’m not talking about giving him a mashable st.L, just faster recovery so that he can go back to doing what he does best which is being in the air and throwing out mighty strikes. I wouldn’t mind a buff to cr.H or st.H but really it’s not necessary. -
Buff his Mighty Thunder (DP super)
Ok this super is bad, it’s probably the worst super in the entire game. All of Hsien-Ko’s hypers are better than this one, hell Phoenix Wrights order in the court (which causes a hard knock against PW) is better than this. Why is this move even in the game? All this move needs is faster recovery. It doesn’t need faster startup and end up like a new magnetic shockwave that just punishes bad movement or assist calls, but it would be nice to be able to use as a DHC to create space and push them to the corner like shockwave does. It doesn’t matter if this move has OTG properties or if it’s damage is off the scale (it isn’t), the fact that it’s recovery and startup is so terrible makes it completely worthless and anyone who uses it in a combo made a mistake.
-Allow air dash after air H
This move can be decent because it’s basically a falling hitbox the entire way down, but what sucks is you can’t actually air dash out of this normal. You can fly or use a special but sometimes mighty strike isn’t what you want to do because of the threat of being thrown. Having a way to dash out of this would actually give him an air plink dash with H~LM and make his fly speed a bit better. Related to this I don’t think they need to buff the startup of his flight mode, like I said I don’t need thor to be another magneto to succeed.
tronbonne
the character is a hybrid of rushdown, zoning, and grappling and she excels at none of them
if they want her to be rushdown I think her boulder toss normal should be jump cancelable like gustaff fire and her drill should be +1 as well as changing the hitbox and hitstun on jumping L to allow full confirms from instant overheads
if they want her to be zoning her beacon bomb L should be a non capture projectile and her servbot tosses should get a durability, speed, and range buff but lower the durability of the boulder
if they want her to be a grappler then she should get an armored move and she should get a full combo off of a command grab without an assist
boulder toss should be whiff special cancelable
lunchrush super should be x factor cancelable on whiff
her level 3 should be made not useless
the character is terrible and will need massive buffs to be made viable she wasnt viable in vanilla on point the assist was her only saving grace (the game didnt have time to mature she would have been relegated to shit tier eventually) and in ultimate she was made worse because of the blanket hit stun nerfs, jump H becoming harder to confirm, and the meter gain change
her jumping h dosent need to be reverted and neither does the assist need to be restored to its vanilla glory fixing tron requires massive buffs to her point game, if any nerfs are given I could see her meter building potential lowered or the bandit boulder’s durability reduced or a change to her combo damage scaling
her mobility is quite good for a heavy character but her lack of mixups that are unseeable will make her suck regardless of damage or health nerfs
I have no hope that capcom will help out tron but hey they asked for feedback so here is my 2 cents