The ONLY Morrigan nerf I want is her soul fist should do less damage everything else should be the same imo
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You know, I made a suggestion just like that in my list.
Most characters could punish him by simply dashing forward and making the second Purification whiff. Purifications on block are a unsafe 50/50 where the risk outweighs the reward. If you whiff you can die, if you hit you will chip on block or juggle the opponent too high to link into a combo.
He does not need a change in Purification at all.
Dorm cannot do anything at SJ height except charge spells and teleport.
You won’t struggle with his teleporting if you have a decent team composition and know how to play. His teleport always tracks so you can mash OS throw and neutral jump while calling an assist. That will beat H teleport free, allow you to punish L teleport, and force a tech/OS throw M teleport if he tries to attack.
You can simply blow up Rapid Slash by mashing a light attack. Snipe Jam Session with a beam attack. Dorm can’t punish either if he’s running away.
All your changes to Dorm are unnecessary or misguided.
That may not be your goal… (and I applaud you for that. ^_^)
But after seeing all the “POWER UP!” only lists without any nerfs…
If your character makes any character obsolete then you need a nerf or they need a buff.
Fix all characters without touching their combos, mix ups, unblockables and resets.
Change their health, meter gain, damage, recovery, attack properties or give new attacks.
That logic will eventually lead to a balanced game.
But please don’t leave your characters current or create a new "I slaughter 80% of the cast."
Changes that don’t list every character reflects that the players current mentality is “Leave the game unbalanced or make whatever changes you want… just make my characters better and the counters to them worse.”
Captain America is a monster with assists just like Haggar is.
And thank you… thinking about it, zoners other then doom, do give him trouble.
You also got me to be totally shocked his crouching and standing L’s are both terrible on block.
His frame data is worse then hulk… just that hulk has a safe physical.
But don’t forget he has his air attacks and Shield slash spam to open someone up without a assist.
As for Cap buffs… I haven’t thought of any. My list isn’t final and I’m still researching.
As for the Crouching L 6 frame speed nerf…
I made that a universal nerf to all characters that have left-right or up-down mix ups.
That doesn’t make sense because with any buff or nerf come new combos, mix ups, unblockables, and resets. Buffs shouldn’t be game breaking. I understand where your coming from when you say leaving current top tiers alone and buffing high/low/mid tiers to the point where they’re the new Vergils, Zeros, and Morrigans is bad, but I don’t understand how you think Haggar + buffs > Morrigan. You and I wouldn’t know how the buffs affect the characters, match ups, and meta game.
Lol, I find your post really funny, seriously.
A good Phoenix Wright is great at grabbing and blocking since they have nothing better to do when someone finally gets to rush him down since he finally lost maya’s shield…
So can you let me know how to do the spoiler thing and tell me why so many people aren’t using it?
There should be a option to input your own combos in training mode, delays included so you can practice them like the missions where the inputs are at the bottom
And a button check feature
HULK: 0 FRAME FLIGHT MODE, A TRACKING TELEPORT, HYPER ARMOR ON EVERYTHING. SHITS RAINBOWS.
No helmbreaker? Still bottom four dawgggg Kappa
Kain Blue River, Bum, Jan.
Haggar with assists is super safe and pressure crazy.
If you look at my changes for him… I’d make him fast to be a decent anchor but shorten his pipe to compensate.
Here’s some changes I would like:
System Changes
-No more mashing s.l for anti-airs. Nova/Magneto/etc. don’t need it and it’s too braindead.
-Make throws more strict with the input. No more ridiculous option select throws.
-Nerf X-factor… again. Personally, I’d be happy with it going as far as simply being a way to end blockstun to counter an opponent, to continue a combo, or something else. But they want it to be something more extreme so I just say tone it down.
-Make TACs more balanced for risk/reward. Either have it cost meter to TAC, or hamper the ability to combo after a TAC. As it is, TACs are too strong.
-Obviously, remove glitches, TAC infinites and the like.
-Maybe decrease damage overall? I’d like to see more resets and less TOD combos.
-Not really important to the balance of the game but DEAR GOD IMPROVE THE NETCODE PLEASE!!
-Bring back some of the features in vanilla like viewing endings/openings/etc.
Chun-Li
-Give her hazanshu. Have it work as an overhead. Also have it be able to be done in the air and when it connects it causes a groundbounce. Think of it sort of being like a divekick. This gives Chun a way to convert off of combos at jump height and to stabilize her combos so they aren’t so wonky and difficult to pull off. Especially after a throw > headstomp OTG.
-SLIGHT damage increase. 5-10%.
-Increase the horizontal hitbox of her headstomp. Or give her some other way so that she can consistently OTG the cast with it. As it is, a good 1/4 of the cast cannot be OTG’d consistently with her standard combos.
-Decrease recovery on kikoken to let her be able to zone for a bit to think out the next plan of attack. Shouldn’t be something that can consistently zone out characters though.
-Small health increase. Bring it up to 900k.
-Make cr.L a low.
Storm
-Speed up her typhoons.
-Change her whirlwind assist to be like Magneto’s where the different buttons correlate to different speeds and durability. All travel the distance that H travels. Including assist. Probably have the assist be M durability.
-Fix the hitbox of her j.H. As it is, visually the whirlwind will clearly hit the opponent but it won’t connect. It has odd positioning requirements in combos that need it to be at the very edge of the little whirlwind. Will also give her a way to confirm at jumping height.
-Give some sort of SMALL buff to lightning sphere. Perhaps decrease recovery time? I feel like if we follow FGTV’s suggestions for these then she would be too OP along with my suggestions.
-Damage increase or decrease on hitstun deterioration to allow for longer combos.
Magneto
-As mentioned earlier… no more mashing s.L for anti-air.
-Increase recovery on magnetic blast.
Dr. Doom
-Hidden Missiles assist disappears after being hit.
-Slightly shorten the OTG window on footdive. He should still be able to OTG at jumping height but perhaps not from the top of the screen. This is because it’s silly when both Doom and his opponent trade blows and slam into the ground, but Doom still has enough time to recover and OTG into a full combo.
Viper
-Change her focus attack to not let it be a guaranteed unblockable for incoming mixups. At least with Strider. Maybe not for assists that last a longer time like Ammy’s Coldstar or Dante’s Jam Session. Not sure how to limit it though… maybe give it a hit limit or follow Viscant’s suggestion and have incoming characters be higher on the screen.
-Don’t let her cancel EX move into another EX move.
X-23
-Let her confirm from superjump height. Not entirely sure how, perhaps an X-23 specialist can come up with an idea.
Nova
-No more mashing s.L for anti-air
-Change hitbox/priority/opportunity for throw OS on his j.H. It’s a little too ridiculous.
I think that’s it for the changes that I feel comfortable making. Thoughts?
Viscant
"A TAC is just a reset. It’s designed to be a high-success reset; if you rely on pure randomness with no deception your success rate is 66.67%. In reality the success rate is slightly higher. Fake TAC setups like Magneto or Iron Man have will lead to your overall “reset” success ratio increasing (for Magneto the relevant reset options are up TAC, L/R TAC, down TAC, dash into air throw and finally HS dash H into full combo) to somewhere between 75-80%.
Now let’s look at damage. With infinites the base potential damage is just R (remainder of health). So your expected value of a TAC is (0.66 x R) – 16,500 (.33 x 50k TAC reversal penalty). In a normal situation this is too much damage. When you started your attack from a throw or from something that scales damage (missiles) it just becomes obscene. Dedicated reset characters like Wesker or Felicia don’t have a reset that can touch this damage or even come close. And even without infinites damage gets out of control. The no frills corner Doom TAC (non-infinite) ending in rocks to sphere flame does 450k. To make the math easier let’s assume that air throw and HS->dash H will do 450k (even though in reality it will do R). So the expected value of a Magneto/Doom TAC is (.75 x 450,000) – 12,500 (penalty reduced) = 325,000. Again this is a significant upgrade over what the expected value of a Felicia/Strider or Wesker/Haggar reset is. And those are dedicated reset units whereas Magneto/Doom is versatile. And Magneto/Doom build more meter (even assuming it ends in a super expended). The current TAC mechanic has basically made dedicated reset teams obsolete. Why make a reset team, TAC to Doom is just better in every possible way. It gets even dumber when the point character is low damage by design, like Morrigan. TAC to Doom is better than literally anything else she has even if you do an extremely low damage version of the TAC and TAC up so as not to affect the meter game.
That’s what’s wrong with TAC, the success rate and the expected value is simply too high. TACs should not exceed real resets in expected value or success rate given that all characters have access to them and they’re too easy to execute. Now any patch would obviously fix infinites but because Marvel players like silly situation specific combos to learn it’s probably not going to touch the TAC mechanic in a satisfactory way as far as damage reduction goes. So in order to balance the TAC mechanic we need to increase the penalty. Increasing the flat penalty doesn’t do enough; the positional advantage a character like Morrigan gets for getting reversed is worth virtually any gross increase in damage."
I Feel like you may be right about tacs not being risky enough even though they are basically resets, but I kinda feel like just making felica and strider more balanced around the already hype magneto/doom would be better. Why cant we make it so everyone not just people with flight and air dash can do a massive swag tac combos? Just think about it Felicia does a tac into Strider he should have an option! thats the problem with low tiers isnt it? They dont have the tools or the options the top tiers have. If I understood your solution correctly that sounds like somthing you want. I feel removing infinites is something that will lower the skill ceiling in the game. Those combos are hard some of them more easy than others but even the most simple is tricky. I feel players are getting what they deserve in terms of execution and its marvel we all want to see big TOD combos… so If we are to change TACs I think we should make them more like a reset and less like a 1/3 guessing game! give players the chance to react to tacs better and give characters without any tac options the ability to do something. Taking out all this combo freedom we have within tacs would ruin the hype of marvel.
Incoming mixups:
“You SHOULD be at a disadvantage on incoming. The attacker has earned an advantage and in a game with a built in comeback mechanic giving the incoming character too many extra advantages isn’t a priority. The problem comes with certain incoming setups that are TOO good. Viper/Strider. Firebrand/Skrull. Taskmaster/Skrull. X-23/Dante. These range from “completely guaranteed on everyone but Sentinel/Morrigan” to “very hard to get out of even if you have air mobility options”. Something needs to be changed. Losing your whole team to one hit and then watching a repeating setup over and over is just bad design.”
If you mess with incommming setups too much this turn into a broken game for very different reasons and I feel like incoming is where some characters really shine (like x23…lets not take away her best tools she needs them no one plays her as it is). For example firebrand… how useable do you think firebrand would be in tournaments without his broken incomming shit? If I remember correctly only a few top players use firebrand. Ive seen Apology mans firebrand alot and I have to say as cheap as it looks, he is doing alot of work and alot of airdash characters can still make it out as Ive been told by him. So what happens if we take away his tools? we have to leave in his good stuff or buff other parts of his character. I guess what I’m try to to get at here is that if you want to balence somthing you cant just take the move or option away without giving somthing good but less broken in return. TBH your solution will only further buff characters with an airdash and flight. Somthing that you said before you dont want, so I really dont get how this will balance anything.
Throws:
"More specifically throw option selecting. Completely unrelated actions should not overlap with throws given how lethal throws can be. Air plink dash shouldn’t option select into a throw. Random helm breakers and pipes shouldn’t option select into a throw. Teching a throw shouldn’t keep you inside throw range.
Solution: This one is pretty easy. F+H and B+H are the only valid throw inputs. Multiple buttons = no throw. D+H = no throw. Force ground throw techs a little bit apart. The mash throw, mash tech, mash throw exchange is stupid and won’t be missed."
I agree 100% here I am so tired of taskmaster doing a back H and option selecting 3 godlike moves: shield skills, grab or if you cross him up he can hit you with rope swing…but if we take this out task must get somthing in return a character buff or system mechanic indirect buff. I also agree 100% about how silly throw teching is, that needs a change asap
"vergil
Solutions: OK let’s start by fixing the obvious stuff. Round trip glitch shouldn’t exist in the first place and neither should the dimension slash crossup/unblockable. Taking away dimension slash unblockable indirectly nerfs anchor Vergil by not letting him scrub his way in. I’d also reduce the size of the hitbox of the devil trigger round trip to make his incoming mixups less ambiguous.
Here’s the part some people might not agree with. I’d turn spiral swords into a level 2 super with free form switches into crown and blistering swords. Spiral swords serves all the same purposes as Ouroboros. Except it’s better. And only costs 1 meter. Obviously this is a problem. Devil trigger would still be a level 1 super so he wouldn’t be nerfed too hard. In my opinion devil trigger is underutilized by Vergil players as is.
You can’t take everything away from Vergil. Without his “broken” tools he’s really not that great a character. You have to leave him something; I chose to let Vergil remain a dominant anchor and still somewhat dangerous outside the anchor position. He wouldn’t be as easy to play though. The incoming situation would be a little fairer on both sides. It would also decrease the 1 player part of the game. Vergil turning on swords and just grinding your x-factor out or cutting off your momentum as a zoning character isn’t fun or fair. Making Vergil players rely more on devil trigger and less on spiral swords would increase player vs. player interaction making the game more fun for all involved."
OK first of all the dimension slash should not be comming out at all if you do your incomming mix up correctly on vergil. If you time your attack the first frame vergil comes out he will be in block stun and will eat your mixup if you mess that up you deserved to be punished. I do agree it should never be unblockable for no reason but take away the cross up? why? cant they hold forward to block? maybe just make it less random and more postion based depending on where and when you do your super and where the player is! that way they can read the situation instead of it being random. As far as rounding trip glitch is concerned we can do without that so thats fine. Making swords a level 2 super is an interesting Idea but leads to an over nerf because vergil cannot do any damage without swordloops or xfactor making his point game useless. A better Idea would be making swords outside of a combo cost 2 bars(still with free cancels), but if you combo it should cost one bar to use your swords that way vergil cant just spam swords to remove your momentum and has to risk burning more meter to do it but he should still kill you if he gets in and has a bar it takes work and you said yourself that its fair. As for doing a dhc into vergil swords thats tricky to balance. Maybe increase the scaling after a dhc a little if you use swords that way you cant just tod thor off a dhc. Or buff his dimension slash so that using it in a dhc isnt as unsafe for your incomming setup and increase the damage.
Now for the rest of the characters you mentioned the only thing that stood out to me is that dante point game and his assist should not be nerfed dante is fine and requires alot of work.
Mostly what bothers me about your balance suggestions is that you focus too much on nerfing not enough buffing we want to see iron fist with an otg launcher and a cross up dive kick! We want to see more good anti air assists! most of the reason that missiles and jam session is so godlike is that there isnt enough assists that can match it and slight nerfs to those assists wont stop them from being the only good anti airs. We need capcom to give some low tiers better moves and assists so we can see more varity! Why does storm do so little damage and have so little good tools make her do as much damage as doom and build more meter… I dont know I’m just tired of people focusing on top tiers. We should be thinking of how to make the unplayable characters playable without changing system mechanics just by adding better moves and redesigning the low tiers. We should all take a page from Ice Frog and DOTA’s book. Think about how many times a hero in that game has undergone a complete overhaul instead of just nerfing everything.
For the love of God make Hsien-Ko faster or** more mobile**. I can make a sandwich in the time it takes her to chase someone to the other side of the screen. Hsien-ko definitely needs some help. I can’t think of the last time a tournament player aside from ll.nd that used her.
The rest I either agree with or dont particularly care about.
About Firebrand, taking his ability to unblockable opponents on incoming is not taking away his tools. He is not a one-trick pony, he still has great mixups and good mobility and great normals. And he can still perform unblockable resets.
Taskmaster Change List(mainly buffs his point capabilities):
-Reduce amount of jump frames. Task’s Jump is too floaty and leaves him far too vulnerable to airthrows. Reducing the floatiness of his jump helps improve his mixups and mobility and strengthens his zoning game. Change his jumping frames from 46 frames to 40-41frames or increase amount active frames on his jumping normals to make him harder to air throw.
-Make his dash startup in 4frames instead of 6frames. The 6frame startup of his dash in comparison to the rest of the cast makes his plinkdash pretty ass in comparison when he was designed to be a strong footsie character with a great dash.
-Reduce the recovery on grounded mighty swing.
-Give his L + M counters the same knockdown and scaling as Sharp Sting. (his super counter is fine, you can combo off it full screen with a lot of assists).
-Allow him to hold Guard Master H or reduce the recovery by 50% on activation
-Increase hard knockdown time on grounded back throw. (this is a fairly stupid buff I feel though considering the strength of the Shield Skills OS, so I highly doubt we’ll get this).
-Slightly buff the hitbox on L arrows so it hits crouching Morrigan/Ammy/Phoenix properly.
-Make his jumping L angle downward(ie Firebrand), gives him better IOH and mighty swing mixups and makes jumping L useful outside of combos where it’s only use lies.
If they give him those buffs I don’t mind nerfing his health to 1 million either :).
I think Magneto and Dante are perfectly balanced as they are and are very fun to play so keep them as they stand(infact I think the game should be balanced around Magneto/Wesker/Dante/Nova tier list wise with buffing the lower tiers to near that level). I don’t consider myself that knowledgeable on the rest of the cast, but I’ll say Zero/Morrigan/Vergil need nerfs.
All I hear in my head is mighty, mighty swing, mighty swing, mighty swing.
More reasons for Taskmaster to mash f/b+fierce.
No thanks.
I want to talk about some of my favorite characters and some ideas I had.
Chris
I think Chris does not need many buffs, assuming they take out some of the unfair stuff of top tier characters. He does a ton of damage and has great tools against grounded opponents. His main problem is he cannot deal with opponents that easily if they have great air control. This isn’t insurmountable with certain assists, but likely those assists would be made a bit worse if the game was patched (Hidden Missiles, Jam Session). Drones is also a great assist for him, although I am unsure if that is an assist everyone is complaining about.
I love the current design of Chris, because all of his moves are directly from the game (with the exception of being able to go prone, I think). I also love the properties of certain moves, such as the magnum being crazy powerful just like it is in the game. Something they miss out on though is that in RE5 and now in RE6 (in which Chris’ chapters are probably the worst, by the way) Chris is working together with his teammates to take down insurmountable odds, such as a giant freighter-sized shadow demon thing. Being that team work is such a huge part of those games now, I would like if Chris could be played in the middle slot with more success.
In order to do this, Chris needs a safer DHC and better assists. I would like to see the grenade super changed so that it is much safer on block and still OTGs. The way I would like to see this done is making the grenades fire a lot faster and make the damage on the super a lot lower and perhaps incorporate a special effect for the corrosive grenades from the game. They could also improve the Gun Fire assist by making it either come out faster or give the shots more active frames.
If they made Chris a better support character they should make the damage scaling from doing the flamethrower a bit worse.
Spencer
I do not like the character of Spencer or how he looks. Yet, his design in this game is wonderful and he is a joy to play. Zipping around the screen is so much fun and doing it in your combos is likewise fun. Bionic Arm is also a really awesome super that is really fun to use. Still, Spencer is allowed to do a bit too much damage because of the unscaled up grapple. I think they should remove this as it seems like a glitch anyhow. I would like to see his overhead be a bit better because it is quite possible to react to it. They should either make it faster or safer to keep him as a good character with great mixup games, but with that buff he would need to do less damage and rely on more resources or a reset to kill.
Nova
Nova is one of my favorite characters from the comics and I think they did a fairly good job with his design (other than his whole attitude in the game. He DOES say blue blazes all the time, but he doesn’t talk like Dante). I love his throw, his speed tackle super and those dolphin kicks. I also love his energy attacks and the speed he has on the ground. He has great tools and all the makings of a good character in this game. He is hard to block, but since he does not have any particularly scary lows besides that slide and it is hard to cross up with his wonky air dash (which I think is a pretty cool design by the way) the real problem with Nova is how good his throw is. His air throw range should be fixed and they should make his air light a little bit slower so it’s easier to react to. He does not need much compensation for this, because he’d still be a great character, but if they wanted to give him a bit extra, light and medium gravametric pulses should reach further, although they should still reach further by removing some of his red life.
Captain America
Captain America’s got a few problems. His zoning gets outclasses and his mixups are not strong without assists. I’ve always loved Cap’s design in Capcom fighters and even though it makes less sense, I’m glad the mechanic where you can lose your shield is gone. Captain America has one great tool though he can use against zoning characters, which is that wonderful Charging Star. That’s the most fun part about using him, I think. Making that move safer would go a long way toward making Cap an extremely viable character, as he’d be able to play the projectile game or take a smaller risk if it isn’t going his way and with assists he can compete with other characters with his normals. Additionally his air combo with the anti-air kick included shouldn’t drop without an extremely specific timing. It should be easier to get all of those air hits.
Like Chris though, Captain America is a team player and he should have more support tools. You could do this in a number of ways. Stars and Stripes super could be a bit safer on block (it can be fairly safe if someone does not know how to punish it, but that’s not enough) and his assists could be a lot better. The first thing I’d change is that his charging star assist should be the medium charging star instead of the light. Additionally, giving the assist version of shield slash a bit more durability could go a long way towards making it a great and unique projectile assist and a great asset to a team. The assist could also be faster.
One more change to Cap is that I feel Stars and Stripes as a special move just does not help him in the slightest. The heavy stars and stripes could be more multi-hitting. At the beginning of the super he dashes up three times with the shield. The heavy stars and stripes could do the same thing, but only twice, but make the damage on it fairly reasonable and make it cancelable into any of his three supers, making it a viable combo ender.
With this long list of buffs, they would also have to scale back a bit of his damage, which I think would be fine.
She-Hulk
I think She-Hulk has a phenomenal design and I do think it would be totally fine if she were just like she was in Vanilla. Yet, I do not think that is what would really help her out the most. Her main problem is that she’s too easy to keep out. They added an awesome move in this game that has pretty much no use at all in that lamp post. You should be able to chain more normals and specials into it and it should help her answer some of her full screen problems without her taking a big risk by trying to run out of there. I also think her supers get beaten by just about everything and She-Hulk, a brusier in the Marvel universe should have more of a slugger super with her awesomely designed kick super, which I love. If they add a couple of frames of armor or startup invincibility to that super, she’d have a few more answers to characters who have better rushdown than she does.
Nemesis
First of all, give him the armor his moves deserve. I have no idea why Hulk’s armor is just so much better that it makes Nemesis just not remotely good. I also think they should give him something flavorful that captures some of the unkillable aspect he had from Resident Evil 3. My idea is that the level 3 should have a more logical hitbox, come out faster and upon hit, it should restore all of his red health giving him a lot of the flavor the character should have. I think he should crouch a bit lower to shoot his missiles also or they should have a standard downward trajectory. He had no problem hitting Jill with those things in RE3 even though she’s short.
Taskmaster
I think Task is the closest character to perfect in the game. While I would love a faster assist or a standing overhead, he does not need those tools to be particularly effective. Yet if they removed his option selects by changing the throw input or some other method, he would get a lot worse by default. Being able to hold his counters like Ammy, considering that should be the characters bread and butter would be a stylistic change that would make the character a bit more cerebral and fun.
I also think they need to limit the amount of times that Doom can use his hard kick OTG in a combo.