Because those aren’t minor nerfs for joe. Tk charged voomerangs are a key part of his game, and you would like him to get even shittier damage off his standing overhead by it not being uppercut cancelable? he already has to work his ass off for decent damage compared to the upper echelon of characters in this game. If anything, buff medium red hot kick by making it otg and leave everything else the same.
So I’m just curious… is the balance update speculation still? Or is it a pretty sure thing now?
All speculation and it’s most likely not even happening
You tell me.
- I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody get out of TK Voomerangs. Grounded ones are good enough.
- Heavy Red Hot Kick is +15 on block. I think that’s a bit much.
- Nobody else is able to get a full combo off of a standing overhead. Why should Joe?
Anyways, I sincerely apologize if my Joe nerfs were bad. This thread just needs input on Joe.
There are far more oppressive things than charged/TK Voomerang pressure. It can be escaped, patience is just required.
Red Hot Kick is hardly one of the most threatening dive kicks in the game, even with how safe it is.
Ryu, Akuma, characters with instant overheads (not standing but just as cheap). Why take it away from Joe?
- There’s ways to beat it. Keep in mind he can’t block the whole time he’s charging. Things like a well timed Strider assist will smack Joe to the floor. And once Joe is hit all voomerangs (charged or uncharged) vanish.
- I’m unsure where you got the +15 on block number from. The Brady guide says that Joe’s Heavy Red Hot Kick is +0 on block. Plus, it’s hella unsafe on whiff with Joe sitting on the ground for 19 frames (though I recognize that this can be somewhat accounted for by calling certain assists before divekicking).
- That’s kind of a weak argument against it; I mean, I could argue as to why not let him have something unique like that?
And my input for Joe is that he should have a lvl 3 that acts like Rocket Raccoon’s (hits fullscreen on the ground, OTGs) so that he can lvl 3 at the end of his standard combos. 
Joe is fine the way he is, he got nothing but buffs going into Ultimate and I think they did a good job balancing him. Honestly, Joe’s only real problem now is his relatively low damage output, but when you take his zoning ability and mix up potential into account I think it balances out.
I can’t agree with the nerfs you listed, and here are my reasons:
1.) Charged Voomerangs are escapable, but like <insert name here> said people get impatient, mash buttons, and get hit.
2.) Heavy Red Hot Kick is not +15 on block, its 0. L and M Red Hot Kick are safe on block, but combo potential is limited.
3.) Other characters have instant overheads that can combo, whats wrong with Joe’s?
4.) If groovy upper H didn’t combo the move would be completely useless. Its not even safe on block now! Besides, when given the option it is almost always better to use groovy upper M anyways due to better damage scaling, and better combo potential.
And I agree this board needs more Viewitful Joe discussion. The more I play him the more I’m convinced he is one of the better characters in the game, and I think he’ll emerge to be a bigger threat in the future. I don’t think he’ll get picked up in large numbers because he is a technical character with low damage output, i’d like to be proven wrong though.
Edit: Beaten to it haha. I also agree that Joe should have a Level 3, I really liked the one he had in TvC.
Do you have any idea regarding the startup of those charged voomerangs?
They don’t charge completely during a full superjump. They take forever to charge and he’s fully vulnerable during all those frames. Not to mention charged voomerangs are not a continuous blockstring, meaning you can always teleport or attack during the voomerangs, hit Joe and the charged voomerang dissapears.
Red Hot Kick H needs either an assist or super to combo off, and nowhere as good as you mentioned. And as York mentioned Groovy upper H is almost completely useless in comparison to with Groovy Upper M which is the version used in combos and blockstrings in conjunction with assists.
V.Joe is fine as he is, he’s a fairly good character that is relatively underexplored. I don’t think he warrants any nerfs, but not any buffs either. He’s meant to be a very annoying zoning character with ridiculous unreactable mixups upclose.
if you tk the charged boomerang you actually get the full thing out before you land. that’s how dieminion does and it manages to almost always have 2 on the screen once he gets going. if you jump and do it you can’t otherwise. also vjoe doesn’t need nerfs ffs
It doesn’t come fully out before he lands. Dieminion super jumps and charges them because otherwise Joe will be left more vulnerable to getting hit and the charged voomerangs will disappear on hit, they can only be released on the ground. ie you can mash Disruptor and hit him out of it if he’s charging them up on the ground. The voomerangs are actually very annoying to deal with due to their erratic and random blockstun and hitstun while tracking, and I assume matchup inexperience too.
V.Joe definitely deserves 0 nerfs, but if one thing deserves to be nerfed it’s that troll overhead. The fuck is that shit, starts up at 13f with 0 visual cues and leads to a full combo, his crL is a jab and hits low too funnily enough. He’s a very fun character overall and the perfect character to troll people with along with Raccoon.
Edit: Nvm I was wrong you can get them out in the air. Still they take forever to get out in neutral and they go out on hit, so they are pretty fair overall.
I think Joe’s overhead is fine, but it really is scary how unseeable it is.
I’ve played Joe for a very long time, and honestly the only thing I would add to him as a buff is to make medium red hot kick otg. This would allow comboability off of both air throws, as well as buffing his damage output slightly with longer combos and also making him work with a larger variety of assists. I strongly feel he is still vastly underrated and isn’t deserving of any sweeping buffs or nerfs.
Ghost Rider Buffs:
[LIST]
[]Heartless Spire (4H) jump and Special cancelable. Should improve his closeup game and increase combo damage off of grounded M normal confirms.
[]Magic Series (L->M->H) chainable in air and ground. Mopre damage and should make air conversions and TACs easier.
[]Ground normals can be canceled into 4H for better pressure in close quarters, as well as improved combos.
[]Improved startup frames on grounded L and M normals.
[*]Improved startup frames on 623H
[/LIST]
IMO Ghost Rider is the worst character in the game and he needs some major buffs, these are just the start of what he needs.
I don’t know about that. He’s still way more viable than Iron Fist and Tron combined.
Nah he’s not. Ghost Rider is just that terrible. He does have favourable matchups against stupid characters like Hulk and Sentinel though, and I think he can do okay against Vergil provided Vergil never puts on swords 
.
Abegen has put in a lot of work with Tron and taken out great players so I dunno why people love to throw her under the bus like that. Bla blah blah.
Every single change list to Ghost Rider should include “chip damage chain normals”. If you think that his chain normals doing a moderate amount of chip in a game with Vergil and Zero in it would be overpowered then I don’t know what to tell you except you’re wrong.
I had a weird-ass thought in the car today: what if Haggar could dash cancel Lariat? He’d still lose health doing it so it wouldn’t be a free-for-all, but it’d give him a unique way to close space during zoning pressure, as well as introduce some wacky new mix-ups.
Wouldn’t that also let him combo off lariat without super or assists?
Random thought for a Phoenix Wright buff: When plinking evidence and paperwork in Trial/Turnabout, let both come out.
Lariat is good enough as is. If you anti-air with it you can get a TOD combo off of pretty much any assist.
That being said Capcom buff that assist back up to Vanilla power. I didn’t play vanilla MvC3 so I didn’t get to experience its full glory!