Ehhhh any character with a good wavedash can get in on Nemesis for free. He might hit you a couple times coming in but once you get in you can pretty much have your way with him.
I dont think Nemesis is terrible by any means, I just think he is very limited and a punching bag for a lot of characters. At least Sentinel has an air to air approach that most characters have to respect.
Um Nemesis has better air normals than SentinelâŚ
Sentinel has more air options total, and in my opinion, even thous Nemesisâs tentacle is better than anything Sent has, the total package of air normals and how they interact and support his game plan is still greatly in Sentâs favor
Let me sum up his problems:
Nemesis is very tall and he has to work hard to stop people hanging out at super jump height.
Other than that, he is pretty good.
I meant the total package like Ve said. Sure Nemesis has dem tentacles⌠but confirming off Air M into big damage is huge.
Sorry i donât agree with you guys. You canât make the argument that the best player or the tournament results determine the tier list. Thatâs why we are here. To be ahead of the curve and theory fight. Its still good that we are still using tournament results. I still donât fully understand both arguments but If we take what you say is true, then Iron Fist would be top tier or #1. Obviously I donât think most of us agree with that. Another example is when vanilla Phoenix was not winning any majors until much later. After CEO it seemed more apparent that she is #1. Most ppl at that time considered her #1 but most ppl didnât fully know what sheâs capable of or they just didnât use her. Itâs also like how ultimate zero is #1 but isnât winning tournaments. Now when tiering characters Derpiness is a factor especially in marvel. Thatâs whats the game about. Assists + teleport + dive kick x 10 = dead characters. You just spam stuff over and over again. Because thatâs the name of the game. It was like Wesker or Dante + Haggar in vanilla. That team just had options to execute and you either block or die. Constant 50/50 situations. To me modok is like Dhalsim, great in hands of a great player but has bad match ups. In umvc, he has more 2011 yun derp characters to face.
Anyways, I thought in this thread the idea was to rate the character not the player. You just have to assume that the character is almost fully optimized with some human error. Now Modok i think is has alot of tools, wall to wall combos, tods, jamming bomb, great battery char, but I donât see this happening often. 3H? thats seems interesting. Anyways, the one that can get that one hit consistently wins. Modok I donât see that happening much. When he does get that hit I admit hes a beast.
Thanks. Iâve been using both together just very recently and typically like to research characters Iâm using and since you always got some smart stuff I wondering what insight you had for them both.
Fortunately itâs gonna miss a lot!
Totally this. Iâd take airdash, flight and an invulnerable air super over better normals any day of the week.
Air-Dash?
Just because they post a lot in here doesnât make them above average believe me.
You didnât read a thing I wrote did you? I didnât talk about the player at all. I said the character itself has great merits. It takes a great player to bring them out. Youâre the one who talked about things being âeasierâ with other characters which isnât a factor in tier lists. Then you compare him to Dhalsim that further proves my point. When did I or the other guy talk about tournaments?
Lay off the pipe.
Sentinel has an air dash!?!
goddammit, mud in my face. I get used to listing those things together.
Iâd still take flight and Hard Drive over anything Nem has in the air tho,
Actually I think Sentinel has a lot more versatility in his air normals too. Frying pan guarantees a character kill off most any Air-to-air hit.
joker is no joke
Thor!!!
Damn, that guyâs Thor in that one match just ate everything. And no projectile assist for Thor? Why no beam? WHY?
Trocadero gamerbase basically the back of hmv
Thor can fly, with his own projectiles and a couple of other tools (like strike) to get in. Personally I like projectile assists on Thor (had Thor/Iron Man/Skrull for a while), but I can see him being viable without them. Testing a Thor at the moment is running Thor/Hulk (gamma)/Wesker (otg). It works well enough, I feel like an ass playing Wesker though, Iâd like to swap him out for another anchor/otg. Might I say, the DHC with Thor/Hulk is OMFG prison shower ass rape.
âWhen tiering, how derpy you are doesnât make you good. When playing in a tournament it does.â I thought you interpreted derpy as the more you spam the better you? To me derpy means stupid good tools, which makes things easier. Like Zeroâs 360 sword. Cannot be teched yet it is easy to combo into air to ground. Anyways I wasnât talking about the better character makes the player better (Although if you theory fight technically it does bc the player supposedly should win more). I was talking about derpy things characters do. I was assuming no player would spam the same things over and over again. Iâm not sure if your referring to characters as being derpy or players. I assume players. Let me reword your quote. [When determining the tier lists, it doesnât matter how derpy you are but it matters about how the player plays in a tournament.] Thatâs how I saw it. Thus, I assume that you think tiers are made up of tournament results because thatâs the point of the tournament, winning no matter what. I could also assume that tournament player is different from derpy player, but the latter seems more appropriate. Also the other guy (Upcoming fighter) simply agreed with you and basically said everyone sucks and we canât tier.
âI contest that itâs not that MODOK isnât good, its that the players who play MODOK arenât good enough.â To me this was kind of where the misunderstanding takes place. So your saying here the great player brings out the best of modok? To me its like saying the better player wins. I guess you meant that modok is so hard to master. Like he has lots of potential? When tiering, I just assume that the players are able to execute and utilize the characters abilities to the fullest like I said. You seem to assume based on that statement that Modok players arenât using him to his fullest. Yet you say he âmay have been better in vanillaâ? Thatâs confusing me. I assume that you already have a good idea of Modok capabilities and since Modok hasnât changed much aside from added addb normals (great tool imo), you must have a good idea of how well he does in Ultimate. I could assume that the statement âplayers who play MODOK arenât good enoughâ youâre criticizing my analysis of dok because itâs not correct or referring to all Modok players but it still vague. But still your bringing in the question of the playerâs capabilities in the tier discussion but in this discussion we already assume that the players are already great. You added unnecessary statements about players when you could have just attacked my comment directly. I did talk in 2nd person about wolverine and modok and win rate which could cause some of your confusion? Also I did talk about tournament play and consistency but thatâs it. Also you agreed that tournament play matters when tiering. Tournament play is about the best players, tiering is about the best characters.
To me its just confusing now because of the vague and unnecessary statements.