Well Firebrand is an unstoppable point character, but outside of Luminous body, I don’t think he offers all that much to the team. Which is why his support value is so low despite his point value being so high.
Also, Strider is up there in support. The big problem is that DHCing into a lvl3 is very impractical in almost all situations, and Legion is merely average as a DHC super. Also, as good as Vajra is, his other assists are solid too. In addition, he’s one of those characters that does well in some match ups that are troublesome for most characters.
He’s near the bottom. He has high damage DHC’s… and that’s pretty much it. His shield slash assist is decent combo fodder, but so are a billion other assists that are also otherwise useful in neutral.
Quick thoughts, will articulate more when I get home from work ( about to drive right now, but wanted to put this down before I forget )
Characters I think are too far to the left.
-Iron Man ( great DHCs and Unibeam is freaking amazing, repulsor assist is really nice too. Too bad it’s attached to iron man )
-Ghost Rider ( nothing spectacular or significant, but Chain is a good complimentary assist for zoning, spire is okay for an OTG, M bike is awesome to DHC out of, DHC into is situational though. )
Characters I think are too far to the right
[S]-Vergil ( only slightly.Solid assists overall and can definitely hep a team with decent DHCs and CCs, but nothing really stands out on the support aspect, seems more comparable to Trish or Thor in that regard than Hawk/task/Strider)[/S]
-Iron Fist ( slightly similar to my above complaint. Honestly not because I think IF doesn’t have really good support, I just don’t think he’s quite as awesome helping out his team as IM/frank/Magneto, who you all have in the same general column )
Characters I think are too high up
-Frank ( I like him, but point? I think the fact that he needs some help to get past the rough spot pushes him down a bit more than that )
I’d say maybe Wesker, but I’m still working with him.
Characters I think are too low
-Taskmaster ( Honestly I think on point with a good X axis assist and a good lockdown/AA assist that you can’t get in on him, period )
-M.O.D.O.K. ( A very dynamic playstyle that allows him to play keepaway like one of the best while having ridiculous rushdown. Most of his weaknesses are very smoothly covered by assists, though he’ll still have issues under pressure. Not significantly low, but definitely a few squares higher IMO)
Though honestly in all those cases other than maybe Taskmaster it’s pretty nitpicky since I’d only move them around a couple spaces. A few more, even more minor disagreements I have, but I agree with 90% of that list.
Iron Man:
Unibeam and repulser are great. Proton cannon DHC’s are suck. And also, while Unibeam and repulser are good, there are many assists that do the same job better or almost as well which greatly deminishes the overall value and utility of those assist because as you mentioned, they are attached to Iron Man, and that guarantees you an uphill battle if he’s every on screen. This also means he’s very vulnerable to assist snapping.
Ghost Rider:
Okay Assists granted. But same as IM, awful DHC’s and shit match ups basically meaning your down a character if they ever come in.
Vergil:
Up there because of just how good his DHC’s are. Seriously, absurd. The fact that a spiral sword DHC basically add a meter neutral extra 400-500k to any characters combo is silly. He is like putting the DHC glitch back on your team.
Iron Fist:
You may be right on that one, the low tiers are a bit more spread out because of space reasons. My main thoughts there was that he has two very good assists, and decent DHC’s.
Frank: Shrug He’s shit, and then he’s awesome, I just kinda took the easy way out and put him in the middle. He’s also functional if you can get him to lvl3, which isn’t that bad, and very practical given that you also get his assist while you wait. Frank is weird, I kind of feel his point play and his support play really overlap alot more than most characters.
Taskmaster:
Hawkeye has better match ups, so Task had to go below him. Task is still pretty high up there in point and support play, and as someone pointed out, his DHC’s rock.
MODOK:
I’m really not super knowledgable on MODOK, but moving him up would put hi point value on par with Skrull, and that didn’t seem right. You have a good point, half a box up (on par with Joe and Spidey) makes good sense.
That really isnt a support role though. Drones trumps anything Nemesis has when it comes to support. Now whether or not who is better on point is pretty debatable. I would take Sentinel, he still has really good damage output if you dont do lazy combos. Sentinels Air mobility and air to air options make him much more viable than Nemsis IMO.
Retracing the bit about Vergil, I had somehow derped out and completely forgot about spiral swords.
I agree with the part about GR and IM, though I was largely ignoring how well the functioned on the field if they got forced in in regards to their support ability ( since that’s going to be a big negative for all the low tiers ). I think you’re understating IM a bit, but you’re the character specialist regarding him, so I’ll defer.
Frank is weird. I suppose it’s all in interpretation. I’d downrate him for the setup required making it dangerous for him to be on the field early, though that doesn’t properly articulate how effective he becomes at neutral after he gets his ranks.
I’m still not entirely convinced on Hawkeye having a better matchup chart than Taskmaster though. He has cool tricks with gimlet, sure, but I feel like Hawkeye has more trouble against teleports ( primarily because Taskmaster has scarier zoning normals and has his counters ) and that Hawkeye has some serious issues re-establishing momentum in a zoning battle if he loses it at all ( I think the fact that Hawkeye can’t cover down-forward while airborne is a big deal, but that might just be me ), with Hawks also being less versatile overall. They’re both my most used characters, and while I admit I’m terrible at this game, on both sides of the fight I feel like Task + 2 is much more daunting than Hawk +2.
You definitely know more than me in regards to Hawk and Task, so i’ll defer to your judgement, but people have been telling me Hawks matchups are better, and he certainly does well in some very, very important match ups.
I see hawk above magneto point game or are you simply thinking they are equals in it since I see them adjacent. Just wondering what you had to say about it.
I think Spencer and Nova should be further right than skrull. They both have assists that do something unique and have useful DHCs.
Hawkeye has a versatile DHC but it doesn’t do much damage, and his most useful assist is good, but generic, so I think he’s a bit too far right.
I’m curious about where Phoenix, Phoenix Wright, Iron Man, Felicia and Magneto are.
Up/Down
Captain America seems too low, he has nice damage, can zone, has nice frame traps and easy mix ups with assists.
Phoenix seems slightly too high given the specific technology to deal with or avoid Dark Phoenix.
Haggar also seems a bit low, assuming he has the assists to help his approach, his priority, damage, and resets should at least have him on par with Chun, I’d even suspect he could make it up to the Thor level.
I’m curious about where Akuma, Morrigan, Viewtiful Joe are.
At this point I know I’m kind of belaboring it, but I really think Akuma is better on point than just about everyone else here does
(specifically I think his combos and approaches/setups are massively underdeveloped because its way easier to just tatsu assist and ‘lolemergencylaser’ with him)
I think MODOK is middle tier probably neutral B. Seems right. Sure he has a dynamic playstyle but he can’t really spam stuff. Alot of the things he does he earns. Based on the nature of this game, the more you can spam stuff and get away with the better the character. He has damage but I haven’t seen much of the tods in tournament play. Just haven’t seen much consistency i guess. Also he has bad match ups from the tops. Strider (assists as well), gimlet, Zero, Ammy, Task, vergil, teleport characters etc. It’s also the fact his Low L whiffs most of the time. He requires spacing but still there are sword characters that do that better but also faster because there are lots of start up frames. Their great because of the range but you need to be deliberate and on top of that he has a big hurt box bc of that he can be mashed out of. He does have special cancel on whiff. He has hard time push blocking. He has great qualities its just that others do a better job but also easier. Also he has. He definitely got a greater boost from vanilla bc he seems moves like magneto imo but magneto i think wins as a better character bc hes easier. DOK has high/lows and unblockables but mostly requires getting into the corner (also low H is is only low normal but can cancel still slow) and the mid screen game is where he doesn’t excel. When you playing modok and switch to wolverine there is a big difference in win rate and landing more damage. He can fight against some top threats well like dorm and fight even with Magneto.But still there is not much about MODOK thats derpy.
What is it about Jill that makes you guys consider her to have an overall stronger point value than Phoenix? Not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like to know why.
I’d also argue that Zero should be lower than Ryu in the support section. Shinkuu DHC’s better than Rekkoha for the most part while also having a state change super. Tatsu is also more useful than any of Zero’s assists.
