Although my love is evident for X23 according to my avatar… but i was wondering what makes her in the middle of the pack besides her low damage and semi low health?
Whoops i meant to say any xfactor not just xf3. I agree he is better on point than anchor.
I don’t see what you are disagreeing with here. Are you saying that a character with a projectile automatically wins against Strider?
My response was that Strider has a way to take control in most situations, usually through using his screen control or great normals to gain momentum and use that to begin his pressure. ie. mixups. I even mentioned the exact same thing, using Formation B to make unsafe moves safe. Unless you mistook my use of zoning as keepaway.
We seem to pretty much agree on everything here?
I’m a bit skeptical of your reasoning, footage has shown us that Viper does heavy damage, Trish is pretty meaty when it comes to dishing out the stuff too, I think with right assists she can dish out 650k meterless or something. But also I think your correct about Firebrand though, in the long run I think he’ll settle in the A tier.
My argument is trying to zone with strider is in effective if they have a projectile since most of them in this game beat his out and his come out really slow. Its seem like you were trying to say his zoning is better then other charecters…thats my mistake for miscomprehending
Because bat dude is now the fastest thing in the game so her usefulness has faded (jk ;)). Anyway, X-23 just relies on assists like Wolverine to get in. But Mirage Feint M travels distance extremely well and she can get in your face. Also she’s hard to punish as well. I consider her B+/A tier simply because she is amazing once she gets in but she can’t zone which is her downfall.
Wolverine can’t really fight fireball wars or zone that well either. If he’s not at close range he’s trying to get within close range. Same with 23.
Like I’ve said probably 4 times already…her biggest issue is that unlike Wolverine or Felicia she doesn’t have an aerial move that causes a ground bounce state. Which means people laming up at the top of the screen even if she hits them she can’t confirm into anything that will kill them or do a lot of damage from them. This is further hurt by how they nerfed the hit stun on her L talon attack. This makes it so air throw is her only option to bring people back to the ground that can create offense and transition back to lame easily from the air. Jam Session and Vajra help a bit but she unfortunately is one of the worst characters at converting into full combos off an aerial jam session hit. She can’t self OTG into full combos off vajra hard knockdown without turning on XF. Without XF, super is all you’re gonna get.
She does have some of the most difficult to deal with crap in the game once she gets you on the ground like the ability to basically dive kick you twice before landing (one a standard dive, the other a special move), a dive kick that’s basically immune to advance guards, dive kicks that cross you up without visually going behind you, fastest pass through move with assist in the game, a command grab and the ability to rapid fire her s.H so it becomes +11 to 12 on block and sets up extremely easy hit confirms and pressure that’s near impossible to counter poke at and risky to jump away from.
It’s just that all doesn’t matter if the opponent is at the top of the screen unless you luckily air throw them and have an OTG assist afterwards or turn on XF immediately after throwing them. She actually has the best aerial movement with assist coverage of all of the ground rush types. She has the easiest time getting in with a good assist between herself, Wolvie, Jill or Felicia. Which as long as the character she is fighting is more ground based she’s good to go on tearing them apart. On the other hand if they can take up to the top corner of the screen and come back down regularly with high priority shit…she has to kind of struggle.
This is mitigated a bit by the fact that she still has a level 3 that will pretty much kill the next character coming in for free but with the meter nerfs it’s more situational than it used to be. Still a scary tool in her arsenal especially when you turn on XF to kill off someone and then use the rest to guarantee kill the next.
In my honest opinion, its because Spencer. The main good tactic and gimmicks Parker has involves his web zip crossups (which are deadly) at odd angles. Coupled with good assists such as Strider, which is ridiculously hard to block properly, he can open you up real easy. Spencer on the other hand while a bit more linear in terms of his ziplining, travels faster than Spidey (its speed needs a nerf still IMO) and he hits twice as hard and opens you up just as well. Simply put, he does it better than a Spiderman can. I would agree somewhat and place Spidey in the B/B+ range. Very solid but overlooked.
I wouldn’t really say he opens you up just as well. Spidey has a much better low to open people up and his cancelling ability can let him do some pretty tricky overhead stuff. Spencer’s is a bit more 1-dimensional, but he does have a command grab, so there’s that.
Basically when you get hit by Spencer you die. When you get hit by Spider Man you get hurt.
Not to be rude but can’t this argument be used for the Wolvie/X-23 comparison? Mista Jin.
Here’s an example of why this tier list isn’t based correctly with the team aspects of this game:
Someone earlier asked why GR is so low in tiers, and as anyone would agree, it’s because he has terrible time facing teleport characters or close up/mix up characters.
Well here’s the thing, with a Haggar assist (and also Strider, Vergil, and probably a few more) that immediately counters the glaring weakness that GR has. I’ve had the misfortune of facing a really good GR team that prevented me from really getting in vs GR.
I think the grid systems for tiers make the most sense for this game because while some characters have weaknesses or lack of tools to do well sometimes in the way they are designed, they can very well come out great with the right assist. Strider for example, imo pretty weak on point, has good mixups but low priority on normals for such low health. Add in Doom or Sent drones and all of a sudden he’s perfectly viable and devastating with mixups regardless of his priority.
Alot of characters in the B, C or lower tiers are just not fleshed out well with the right team setup. Some characters are not meant to be played on point or second or anchor. None of this is well represented with the current way tiers are developed.
Ive seen some grid tiers and I think there needs to be a better way to characterize which characters are S (because they can be devastating in any position, can kill solo without assists, have less need of meters, etc) and weigh in the rest of the cast by their position strengths, team synergy, ability to cover any weakness with certain team setups, and assist strengths, on top of their obvious tools, strength, meter usage etc.
Am I asking too much? Don’t think so, if everyone starts to think that way to determine tiers, we would eventually find one consensus that covers alot more factors into the overall strengths of umvc3 characters. I will give this grid tier a shot soon but I am busy at work today, so it’ll have to wait.
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I wasn’t trying to compare 23 to Wolverine specifically in my last post if that’s what you’re asking. I was just talking about the issues she has in general.
If you wanna get into that though…Wolverine and Felicia I would say are both better than her overall simply because they have a ground bouncing aerial move. That alone makes them both better easily. X-23 can get in more easily than both of them but she inevitably has a better time getting damage if they are a more ground oriented character.
X-23 with an OTG assist is basically a TOD character so the Spider Man/Spencer thing doesn’t really fit either.
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It’s impossible to deny the importance of team building, but for a tier thread you kind of have to ignore it. If you start saying “X character is S tier with these two assists” you run into muddy water. There are waaaaay too many team options to take into account. You really have to look at just the one character. Practically every character is viable with two assists catered to their needs, Ghost Rider included. But that doesn’t make him a beast compared to the rest of the cast. With completely idealized structured teams, the tier list would probably still look exactly the same.
Yeah I would say rushdown is too strong in this game for Rider to ever get really high in the tier lists. You might as well just play someone that can put hit boxes on the screen faster like Hawkeye.
What makes you think that many people here have not accounted for assists and synergy when they talk about these characters?
Matter of fact is, there are characters that work much better with drones/missiles. so no reason for GR to be in the same place. I’d rather use Hawkeye or Morrigan with Missiles for example, and they are both better at getting in as well.
Mobility, maximum damage, converting any hit into it etc are also issues that assist cannot fix completely.
It’s true that we have not found optimal teams or explored the whole cast in these two WHOLE months, but thinking that most people do their tiers with a ‘1 vs 1 match-up logic’ is ridiculous
Speaking of Haggar…How the heck did he knock Strider out of his balls? I was spamming Double Lariat and then suddenly the balls disapprared and I combo’ed level 3 x factor Strider o_O
Disjointed hit box moves like pipe can still hit Strider out of Ouro.
what on earth happened to Peter’s damage?
He still hurts pretty good and can do near his old damage with execution, he just doesn’t have anything as good as web throw loop anymore. Giving him an OTG super like Storm’s hailstorm behind him makes his damage a lot more easy mode also.