I think its a fair nerf for Phoenix and non Phoenix players. She’s still OP but now there are better matchups against her.
How is it fair? Doom gets to shoot out 8 missles that don’t disappear when he gets hit. Nether does MODOKs balloon bomb H. they both are homming. Dante’s disappear, so does Viewtiful Joe’s, Sentinels disappear and they aren’t even homing, Dorms spells keep going after he gets hit which some are full screen. She’s not as OP as everyone thinks, she’s only like that when she has X-Factor. She is easy to kill once X-Factor is gone. Her health drains, she isn’t as fast, her feathers could be blasted through from most hypers. Phoenix needed everything she had to win. Now every move she makes is a gamble due to the nerfs… I’ll say this much, I welcome the one action mid air nerf, but everything else is just to please the complainers and whiners who couldn’t hold their own against Phoenix.
So what is the general gameplay now for Phoenix? She can’t do shit in the air anymore, and she has less health, so . . . ???
I personally think the whole character should be redesigned. Dark Phoenix should be a level 3 buff and much weaker, and instead of having her life drain, just have it be a timed super.
It’s basically what the guy on the PAX videos did that I posted awhile back. Also alot more healing field going on. Maybe more Traps and overdrives involved.
Not to be rude but could you read the other posts, alot of people come in and say the same thing you did. Sorry in advance.
Hahah, I figured as much. +1 to that mentality of DP as level 3 super 
You know what they could do to make her a viable point character again? Reduce her hit-stun decay. It would give her the ability to build meter by herself if she’s the last one standing, and it wouldn’t really affect Dark Phoenix much since the opponent will probably die in one 15-hit combo anyway.
Well another nerf has been discovered…Phoenix Rage is no longer invincible and she can be punished through it.
Jintor tested out her traps in both regular and Dark mode, and they are the same from vanilla. But this was from the TGS version so they could have changed it.
Also the nerf to meter gain is gonna hurt her. From the stream, taking hits build less meter, and combos don’t give as much as in the original version.
So the start up frames aren’t invincible? Will someone take away the nerf bat from capcom please…
No they are not… as of the TGS Build hopefully its just a temporary issue with all the other nerfs she got she could at least keep that.
They really don’t want anyone to use Phoenix anymore.
Wow that really sucks. That was one unique thing about Phoenix that I really liked that you could punish random supers with her Phoenix Rage super.
they want her to “feel strong”… but too bad they cant give her normal HP after all the nerfs they just rocketed up her butt hole. all the nerfs ive read about her… make me disappoint…
- in vanilla, once 5 meters stocked = phoenix can ressurrect guaranteed = opponents had to decide between time her out or go in for the kill = she dictates pace = feels strong - they added a meter removing system, which already cuts her game in half
- shes only allowed one aerial non-normal per jump/super jump… this i have to say is her game-changing (understatement…) factor… they way to play a glass cannon effectively is to think fast and to have a perfect pressure game… (and phoenix’s pressure game RELIES on multiple air shots…) tk shot -> into teleport or double teleport gave her a super fast mixup game that was SAFE which is extremely important to a character that dies in less than one combo (and theyve given her less hp…) sure, you can still double teleport if you initiate from the ground but there is a reason people didnt spam heavy tk shot from the ground in vanilla… that gets you killed against just about the entire cast… the developers clearly dont know what theyre doing with phoenix… yes, she had room for nerfs, she was an amazing character in the original, but damn, nerf her in the right ways, dont wipe the character!
- im reading that phoenix rage got nerfed too. -_- honestly, as a phoenix player… (since theyre killing the character anyways, might as well talk freely about your techniques, guys…) very important thing to keep in mind in every match is you either go for dark phoenix or you dont, her role as a glass cannon does not change besides using her in the front or on the back of your team lineup. dark phoenix +xfactor3 just gives you a little bit of an intimidation factor, which experienced players will know how to see through anyways. but in case youre using her in the front of your team - youre not using dark phoenix - there is no point in saving your meters… they go into phoenix rage and healing field. if theyre nerfing phoenix rage as badly as im hearing they are, theyre not only making it 10 times harder to get dark phoenix out (which there is less of a point in doing anyways) theyre killing phoenix as a self sufficient character too :[
- enough ranting… this is a sad day…
edit-
trust me buddy this is not a slap on the wrist… in vanilla it was very easy to outplay an inexperienced phoenix… noob phoenixes generally always use her last on their team, and half of them die when you snap them in = problem solved… xfactor3 dark phoenix is more of a reward to the phoenix player to have gotten to the end of the match with those tools left. regular phoenix, even with two more teammates, is still a highly worthy x-factor using character in the right situations. a good phoenix player in a bad situation (other player needs to force them there) will use it to turn the tables without sacrificing 2/3 of the team for a CHANCE to carry out with dark phoenix. this is turning into huge rant, which im trying to avoid but im just so shocked at people who complain about dark phoenix… because she IS so strong with xfactor3 (just like sentinel… and magneto… and all these other guys…) you need to render that character out before it has the chance to come out. either bring xfactor out before teammates are dead or dark phoenix comes out, or kill dark phoenix by punishing her mess-ups or forcing the opponent to use regular phoenix tactics. honestly most of the noobs that use phoenix on vanilla online try to lame their enemy out with salty balls and dark phoenix instant kills, and ive seen them try to do it to me (which made me LOL) but sad thing is it only works against a bigger noob who doesnt know how to solve the problem, and those big noobs end up complaining about it, and then developers end up having to change one of the best characters theyve come up with for a fighting game. ever.
You realize that if you’re getting comboed and mash any side + S like there’s no tomorrow, you’ll never lose a meter to TAC, right?
Unless you’re fighting Morrigan or some other very specific characters that can have meter stealing moves, you still have your guarranted transformation as soon as you get 5 bars.
You can still fly and fire more than one salty ball or salty ball into teleport.
Also Phoenix can do more than just run away and spam projectiles, learn how to use her other moves, there’s a lot of good material there.
Yeah… Phoenix rage nerf is sad… but how many times does you actually use it outside of combos?
It’s REALLY good now to punish stuff, but Phoenix players tend to be saving that meters with their lives…
It’s sad that it got nerfed, but not that bad in like 80% of your matches with her.
Dark Phoenix still is quite powerful… even with all those matches, once you get to transform her, she’ll definitively have a good matchup no matter who’s up against her… she’s just that powerful… Maybe Strange can turn her down with his projectile counter hyper which will counter about EVERYTHING she does because everything fires projectiles…
From videos I watched, Phoenix still a force to be reckoned with, she’s still powerful, TK trap into teleport against most incoming characters is still retarded, she can still kill a character during xfactor in 3 button presses, she still spam about the same amount of projectiles as a Shmup boss…
The nerf hammer even may have bashed her too hard… I don’t exactly think so, but, if this is the case, I’m sure she’ll get fixed on the next iteration… UMvC3 is most likely being at least patched again in a near future.
Man this is fucking stupid. I don’t use phoenix all that often unless I’m trolling, but really this is pretty stupid. Phoenix is getting pwned harder than the twins combined in AE 2012. Clearly Capcom has no idea what really made Phoenix strong (insane XF damage, mixups, runaway) and are just nerfing things at random. The only legit nerf she’s had that makes sense is the 1 action per air. I get that, stupidest thing ever was regular Phoenix running down the clock by simply super jumping and shooting off 3 homing balls.
Why health nerf? Why no invincibility on Phoenix Rage? Makes no sense to me…I’m hoping none of this sticks and they just revert and make REAL good changes to x-factor.
Uh, Dark Phoenix already dies from that move at full health. She takes more damage in a cinematic, remember?
I think a better example would be something I saw on yesterday’s live stream. I saw Taskmaster air-throw a full health Phoenix and do his arrow super, which completely drained Phoenix’s health. I don’t believe this killed her in the original MvC3.
australopitecus really? From the way your explaining, sounds like you want capcom to give Phoenix more nerfs. The Trap bounces helped to extened her combos and keep out over head characters. And if capcom were to patch the game, you think they’d give any Buffs to Pheonix? They clearly want Dark Phoenix to be a major threat.
The way they nefed her is pushing for game play thats pure rush down. All her little tactics of spamming mid air is almost completely gone. Thats forces for more Overdrive and traps to help her. That would explain why the traps didn’t get any nerf. She can still spam while grounded but the new characters and new moves of the old cast can handle the wall of orbs to punish. Not to mention when she gets hit the orbs fade. Her health nerf seems mostly for Phoenix and not Dark Pheonix because originally Phoenix could survive all lvl 3 hypers. Dark Phoenix couldn’t because all lvl 3’s did extra damage so they’d kill her. Now doing the health nerf was to help characters deal with Phoenix quickly before she could become Dark. I’m not to bumbed about this, but the invicibility on her hyper sucks because, now she can get hit, it stops the hyper. And its her only attack hyper.
I could swear it does actually. I’ll double check when I get home, but I’m pretty sure air throw to Legion arrows does more than 420k. Quite right about “capture” moves and hypers dealing 20% extra to Dark Phoenix. I’m curious if that still happens in UMvC3 though, since I’ve always had the feeling that that might have been the cause of the DHC glitch.
Edit: Apparently I was remembering X-factor 1 damage totals for Taksmaster’s Air throw to Legion Arrows. No X-factor that does 370k.
no no… Don’t get me wrong…
I just think these nerfs are not the end of the world…
like I said at the end of my last post, the nerf hammer may have bashed way to hard…
Still, she can zone and rush and mixup/trap but right now it’s just not as braindead as before… I’m pretty disappointed with that Phoenix Rage nerf… it makes no sense, but I’m perfectly fine with the other nerfs…
Phoenix is one of my favorite (along with Zero and Arthur) MvC3 characters, I play her since day 1 and I’d like very much if she stayed viable, and I still hope she is.
I have posted this twice somewhere already… but I would have made different changes on her…
I’d limit Salty balls to one on the screen at each time without limiting air actions.
I’d also remove the feathers from light attacks in Dark Phoenix form and wallbounces from TK traps and just leave everything else as it is on vanilla…
But I think all the nerfs she’s received, even if they’re harsh, she has the means to get over them and be competitive anyway.
Dark Phoenix will be a nightmare as she is today when you transform.
This entire post is so depressing. Its a 100% true, but I loved using standard Phoenix on point… oh well.
I personally would have loved to see these changes:
-damage nerfs across the board
-Dark Phoenix is not affected by X factor at all. You can use it but you gain NO health regen, NO chip immunity, no damage boost or speed boost. This would give players more incentive to use regular Phoenix.
-Keep the 1 action per aerial thing
-Phoenix’s health goes up, from 400 > 500 to compensate for th