UMVC3 Patch/Balance Discussion *NO PATCH...but word is out of possible ALL CAPCOM VS game coming*

Sorry if that came off as dismissive, I just don’t want this discussion to go off in all kinds of tangents without really grasping the consequences of suggested changes. You argue your points well though, so my apologies. I think you can make an intelligent case for a lot of balance changes, but some of the things that have been suggested are a little bananas.

Anyway, the problem with his command throw is that if you give him a practical way to follow it up, Hulk automatically gets about 1 million damage assistless from anywhere because of how his moves scale. That would be a little ridiculous. As a workaround, I suppose you could artificially force extra scaling (prorate all followup damage) on all followups to the throw. I can’t think of any moves that currently do this though. It think it was balanced out by giving it so much startup and making followups a little trickier. With the right assists he actually can followup from anywhere.

As for the Gamma Charge followups, I’m all for fixing flawed moves, but I just don’t think adding more damage is the answer. Fixing it in other ways is fine like trimming down some recovery. That said, I don’t really see many people using gamma charges as anti-airs with Hulk, most people prefer to use his armored normals then cancel into specials while assists are hitting.

If the opponent is really high up then H Gamma charge might be the better choice, but imo Hulk was deliberately designed to have a weak air game so I don’t think he’s meant to be able to easily convert from anywhere. I wish more characters were like this to be quite frank.

RR just needs his hitconfirms made easier on his air normals. So greater hit stun on his air normals to allow him to combo better.

That’s why I suggested increasing the quantity of whirls when doing this while lowering their damage, to maximize damage scaling and increase hit stun decay. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

It is one of the only options I know of for dealing with a character like Trish or Morrigan sometimes. You slowly push them back while eating all of the chip, then right as you get them near the corner they activate fly mode and zig zag out at super jump height. A well placed Gamma Charge H is the only real answer. The problem is that currently you get 200-240k and can end up taking damage back, potentially a lot of it. Nevermind what happens if you whiff. Damage may not be the answer, but it is usually Hulk’s answer over speed, hence the suggestion.

Relevant to the thread.

Doesn’t mean one can’t happen next year though.

I see what you’re saying, but even now, all the followups are pretty much fully scaled when you mash the command grab and he still gets a million damage. You could lengthen the animation, but it’s already one of the longer command grabs shrug.

Niitsuma is a smart man. Game needs a lot more time to evolve any way. At least when it comes to the balance, so far Niitsuma has shown that he is ahead of what people thought before the game released.

There is definite stuff that needs to be fixed, but so far just the oppressiveness of the game in general and how many options the game gives you to deal with cheap stuff…it’s not really necessary at this time.

It’s actually pretty funny that Skullgirls is getting a hard patch before UMVC3 is. The game that MikeZ didn’t really want to patch early. I guess it just came down to pressure from PR. At least that game is still really new and the characters still will retain most of their power even with the nerfs.

Give Thor a teleport, armor on his command grabs, less recovery on ground normals, and ability to cancel his hypers with Mighty Speech. I wanna build meter, talk smack, and be awesome while Mighty Tornado is swirling around me doing damage.

I honestly just think the game is getting one next year.

ITT: How to make decent enough characters S-tier.

I wish they would just do away with charging Mighty Smash/Mighty Strike and Thor would be better. Give the moves the same quality/durability of the fully charged versions without the charge. That would make him better to me.

CapAm doesn’t need any changes, he’s solid middle of the road and that’s okay

As much as I’d like him to get the Doom / Spencer treatment, it’s not necessary

Considering how Niitsuma talked about keeping a close eye on UMVC3 during SBO, [my gut says maybe](http://my gut says maybe).

lol if this guy goes off of one 2/3 circuit over the eight trillion events held worldwide. It’s SC5 all over again.

Ok time for a wishlist.

System Changes
-One TAC-counter input lasts for entire combo or until TAC’ed against. This prevents ‘resetting yourself’ by mashing TAC-counter only for your opponent to drop their combo and get a free new combo while you whiff j.:s:

-Greatly reduced XF2/3 timers: XF3 should last 8 Marvel seconds maximum.

-If you get hit after calling an assist but before it becomes active the assist character just leaves after a brief period of vulnerability (similar to Dark Harmonizer vulnerable duration).

-Getting hit / blocking chip damage during your own combo (e.g. by Viewtiful Joe’s Shocking Pink) does not reset your assist availability for that combo.

-Hard tags do not hit overhead.

Pipe-dream change: Completely remove rock-paper-scissors bullshit TAC system. Replace with TvC TAC system but keep the unscaled hitstun on post-TAC combos until you land.

Character changes:
Akuma:
-Pretty well-designed overall and a good bar for where other characters should be. Keep him the same, maybe improve his other 2 assists just so there might be some reason not to pick Tatsu every time when picking him.

Amaterasu:
-Put a time limit on holding Solar Flare (counter); 90 frames is plenty for a maximum.
-Decrease XF speed bonus to 20/35/50%
-Increase damage of beads attacks (s.:h:, cr.:h:, :f::h:, j.:h:)

Arthur:
-Remove hard-knockdown state when King’s Armor (Gold) expires. Replace with invulnerable soft-knockdown (as if TAC-countered).
-Add a dash when wearing no armor (stole this idea from someone else in here).
-Increase walk speed wearing no armor, slightly increase walk speed wearing standard armor.

C.Viper
-Very difficult character to fix without screwing up completely. My best idea is to move the first invincible frame on EX Seismo to frame 2, but I’d rather let people with move Viper experience chime in.

Captain America
-No changes

Chris
-Improve hitbox and frame advantage of s.:s:
-Decrease startup of Machine Gun
-Increase duration of Land Mine

Chun-Li
-Make cr.:l: hit low. I think she’d actually be pretty good with this alone.

Dante:
-Allow opponent to tech-roll out of Grapple
-Reduce invincibility on Vortex

Deadpool:
-Increase Hard Knockdown untechable time after 4th-wall crisis to allow for a followup combo with tight timing (similar to Devil Must Die).

Dormammu:
-Slightly decrease hitstun on j.:s: and cr.:m:
-Slightly increase startup on Chaotic Flame

Dr. Doom:
-Decrease frame advantage of s.:s: to -4 on block.
-Decrease number of missiles fired by Hidden Missiles assist to 5 (but do not reduce vulnerable duration of assist call)

Dr. Strange:
-Make cr.:l: hit low
-Increase vertical hitbox size of :l:-Mystic Sword so it hits all crouching characters
-Slightly decrease startup of :l:-Grace of Hoggoth
-Increase frame advantage of s.:s: to -9 on block
-Decrease startup of flight
-Reduce recovery of successful Illusion to 1f.
-Allow Flames of the Faltine to pass through the opponent (possibly hitting more than once depending on Grace positions)

Felicia:
-No changes

Firebrand:
-Increase charge time of fully charged Demon Missile by 10-15 frames.
-Slightly reduce hitbox size of Bon Voyage
-Increase damage of Dark Fire; make last hit of Dark Fire cause Soft Knockdown.

Frank West:
-No changes

Ghost Rider:
-I don’t know what this character needs, I just know that he sucks right now.

Haggar:
-Add brief projectile invincibility to all versions of Violent Ax
-Second last hit of Rapid Fire Fist is untechable spinning (soft) knockdown.

Hawkeye:
-No changes

Hsien-Ko
[S]-Remove from the game, no point trying anymore.[/S]
-Significantly increase movement speed (walk, dash, air-dash)
-Senpu Bu can be canceled at any time.
-Increase travel distance of all versions of Henkyo Ki

Hulk:
-Better ground dash / wavedash

Iron Fist:
-Make Rising Fang Air-OK

Iron Man:
-Slightly increase hitstun on j.:d::h: and j.:u::h:
-Allow ground dash to be canceled earlier
-Last hit of Proton Cannon causes Soft Knockdown
-Slightly increase height of Iron Avenger hitbox
-Increase health to 1,000,000
[S]-Make him Invincible[/S]
[S]-Change all of his win quotes to “It’s spelled R-E-P-U-L-S-O-R”[/S]

Jill:
-I don’t have enough experience to say for sure but I think she is pretty well-balanced where she is.

Magneto:
-Remove ability to cancel blockstun with Gravitation/Repulsion/Attraction - it’s only a matter of time before this gets really broken.
-Slightly decrease recovery of Forcefield
-Increase startup of assist EM Disruptor, or change it to :m: EM Disruptor.

M.O.D.O.K.:
-No changes

Morrigan:
-Cannot build meter during Astral Vision
-Reduce life to 900k

Nemesis:
-Improve his level 3. Seriously, do anything to improve it.

Nova:
-No changes

Phoenix:
-No changes

Phoenix Wright:
-I think he should get his invincible assists in Turnabout mode back actually but other than that I have no idea what this character needs.

Rocket Raccoon:
-Slightly increase hitstun on j.:s:

Ryu:
-Make Baku Hadoken OTG. It would require an assist to capitalize off of but I’m sure some creative players could make use of it.

Sentinel:
-Increase health to 1,100,000
-Make all :m: and :h: normals cause chip damage

She-Hulk:
-Add Projectile Nullifying property to Lights Out!
-She needs more but I don’t know what else

Shuma-Gorath:
-Increase health to 1M
-Change Mystic Smash motion to :dp:
-Change Mystic Ray motion to :qcf: (this keeps both of these specials consistent with their respective hypers as well)

Spencer:
-Add damage scaling to Vertical Grapple.

Spider-Man:
-He seems ok as it is; maybe improve the hitstun on his normals for easier hit-confirms
-Replace his theme music with anything else

Storm:
-No changes, she’s perfect as-is. Maybe reduce startup on Typhoon and improve her assists somewhat.

Strider:
-No changes; the assist system change I listed earlier should bring him in line a little bit.

Super-Skrull:
-No changes

Taskmaster:
-No changes

Thor:
-New move: Hammer Throw (charge :b: then :f:+:atk:). Different :atk: buttons determine startup and travel distance. The throw arcs slightly upwards and comes all the way to the ground at the end (giving him a projectile he can hit crouching characters with).
-Greatly reduce the startup of flight
OR
-Greatly increase the startup of flight, but greatly increase the movement speed and dash speed while in flight (not quite to Mad Beast levels, but close)

Trish:
-Slightly reduce duration of Peekaboo.

Tron Bonne:
-She’s a horrible character right now but I don’t know enough about her to know what could be improved given her current design. Buff something.

Vergil
-Increase startup of s.:l: to 6f
-Increase startup of cr.:l: to 7f
-Slightly decrease hitstun on s.:l: and cr.:l:
-Slightly (5-10%) increase travel speed (thereby reducing duration) of Round Trip
-Remove OTG property from level 3. I’m okay with it doing 600k and crumpling, it just makes no sense that it can OTG.
[S]-Rename Dimension Slash to Dubstep Slash - wubwubwubwubwub[/S]

Viewtiful Joe:
-See System Changes

Wesker:
-Reduce frame advantage on s.:s: to -4 on block.

Wolverine:
-No changes

X-23:
-:l:-Talon Attack always causes hard knockdown against airborne opponents
-Increase hitbox size of j.:s:

Zero:
-Reduce Special damage scaling minimum damage to 20%
-Increase time required to fully charge buster by 12 frames
-Reduce frame advantage of j.:d::h: to bring it in line with j.:h:
-Increase startup of j.:h: and j.:d::h: by 2f
-Only 1 Raikousen (lightning) allowed per jump (just like Hienkyaku)
[S]-Zero’s call-out when entering the battle after the defeat of a female team-member should be “WHATAMIFIGHTINGFOOOOOOOAGH”[/S]

Nah, he’s going to be at EVO too. Meaning I get the feeling he’s going to be paying close attention to a certain character that will be on every winning team. Meaning I have a feeling that a certain character with a blue coat is going to get the bat.

Nerf who’s winning. Not who’s a problem. This funny to me. I got 3 Bison dollars on Viper and Firebrand not even being touched.

We dont need any nerfs to this game… its fucken 6 months old barely. The game will evolve, Look morrigan is now S tier and she was C before, let the game evolve.

Only thing I can see is system mechanics changing like the assist not going if hit or stuff like that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

True but there’s nothing to evolve about shit like Zero other than people not dropping his combos.

they won’t touch Viper. Firewho?

That would give him easy infinites from everywhere, not to mention it would be broken as fuck. Huge hitbox, soft knockdown, 3 hit air armored move that counts as a medium projectile, sets up infinites and is completely safe on block?

Yeah, no