it’s like they took the best things Mags had (fast beam, trijumps, air dash canceling) and distributed them evenly between Iron Man and Doom. crazy.
Well now Magneto’s supposed to be able to push and pull you apart so i guess it’s a fair trade. LOL.
Wesker also has good mixups regarding ground recovery in the corner that 99% of people have never run into before, mostly because he has no way to create the state himself.
Magneto’s EMD assist causes this state.
Zero’s still going to be able to ToD people unless his lightning ender doesn’t work with…jam session and another long assist (he can potentially get three lightning dashes thanks to lightning buster cancel). Even without that though, he can lightning buster cancel to get double lightning.
Then again, nobody really notable has been ToDing with Zero in vanilla anyway (whether it be to not having the team he needs for it or not even going for it in the first place). That might change in ultimate with some new teammate options for Zero (Zero/Dante/Vergil is gonna be something to look for imo).
People haven’t been TODing in Vanilla mainly because Zero is so strong offensively that it really doesn’t matter. Why do you need to TOD when people can’t beat your pokes or whiff punish you any way? Just run resets and save the meter. If you know how to play fighting games you’ll figure out how to hit them again with Zero’s myraid of hella hard to block mix ups. Which you can make even more ridiculous by turning on sogenmu. Once Zero gets in with good assists he should be able to beat anyone in the game minus worrying about Tron/Haggar assist.
I’m pretty sure most teams with Zero and any standard horizontal assist can set up TOD’s for Zero. My brother plays Captain America/Zero/Felicia and he can TOD with just Felicia’s rolling buckler assist alone.
I’m really worried about Iron Man. He’s not actually that mobile, and his high-low isn’t that scary because he lands really slowly if you try to do empty tri-jump into low. Proton Cannon is so slow you can’t even DHC into another character if you’re being pelted with projectiles. Comboing off of airthrows with him is really difficult, and I can’t imagine it’s easier now that his airdash is slower than Sentinel flight mode.
So I don’t really know what Capcom has in mind. Seth was acting like faster smart bombs/unibeam were going to make IM into a good zoner. I doubt that’s the case.
Will dash-cancelling off of jump moves
Neogaf is also saying that throws cause more severe damage scaling. Is this new or has this been the case?
Throw have always have been served damage scale, but really the damage scaling isn’t the problem. If DHC glitch never existed, getting TODS out of throws wouldn’t be possible without a level 3/ a massage use of Meter/or X-Factor. The problem isn’t the level 3, it’s the fucking X-Factor damage scale.
X-Factor ignores the throw damage scale allowing TODS to happen.
Not exactly true. Throws just start the combo at the minimum X-factor scaling, 50%.
I also feel IM’s changes are kinda iffy. I’m gonna waffle here since I’ve been advocating IM’s changes up until now, but I honestly think IM didn’t need severely wild changes to be more competitive. As much as people rag on him in Vanilla, IM is actually very solid. His ONLY problem is that you need to play more passive/stay neutral if you wanted to convert big damage off stray hits with his huge air reach.
Ultimate IM actually seems like his neutral game is being expanded with air dash cancels, spammable unibeams, quicker repulsors, faster fly, and cancellable missiles. If he gets a proper wave dash, I think he can work out fine. But here’s hoping
Chun Li was probably the worst choice of them all(and Hsien-Ko is a terrifying choice as she currently is). They could have switched her slot for Jin or Captain Commando who would have been far more interesting characters with more potential. Chun doesn’t control long range, mid range and she doesn’t even do much up close. They should have saved her for UMvC3 since most of the new characters look like they had time put into them this time around.
Also, top tiers in MvC2 are so strong now because Capcom was pandering to the fans of the previous game. They are afraid to nerf them from god tier characters to good characters now so they throw them stuff like gravitation, glass breakage, etc.
The characters are only as good as the people make them. You cannot say jin and CC have more potential because they could of wound up worse than chun.
if they were really pandering to the fans of mvc2, they would have not made it so scrub friendly, and taken out all the fun higher execution stuff.
Nah I mean even* more* scaling in UMvC3 than there is now.
Also I wonder if this is purely damage scaling or if hitstun scaling was toned down as well?
(Oh man. Firefox crashed on me hardcore last night after hours of typing up the following post when I was almost even though I had copied it just in case that happened; due it to crashing the way it did, it eliminated everything on the clip. Haha.
I surprisingly wasn’t livid; I just took as a sign that I should go to sleep. Perhaps it’s because I was still laughing at the fact that half of this thread has been spent arguing over Mag-freaking-neto like he got anything but buffed, ultimately. Some of you….)
First and foremost, much thanks to you, DevilJin 01. You as well, Dahbomb (and shinquickman). I had been wondering why everything wasn’t neatly in one place with all the updates we were getting and I had meant to remedy this about a month ago since I have more free time than most people still currently. However, I obviously didn’t between being a lazy, unreliable bastard and working on one of my other projects to the point where I’ve barely been on SRK since last month. As such, I’m glad to see that someone picked up the ball, though you’d have my thanks otherwise.
Secondly, I must admit my surprise that I tend to like most of UMvC3’s proposed changes overall. There are, of course, some that just make me shake my head, but I could shake my head until my neck breaks and it wouldn’t change anything on what’s a finished product. Not that I won’t bitch about what’s going almost inevitably be stupid sometime down the road, but at least I’m prepared for it. As such, I would like to formally salute our (re)new(ed) Latverian, Reploid, Faltine, wolf, M.I.L.F. and demon-whore (I’m including Dante here) overlords.
Last, since my opinion is so very esteemed and you’re all dying to know what I think, I will be giving my opinion on every goddamn single character (again, sigh). I’ll try to be concise—moreso this time around since I know what I want to say and don’t have to go constantly back and forth between NeoGaf & the wiki that someone should really have helped Jchensor with. Try. I’ll be using spoilers regardless, though.
Speaking of unnecessarily using bold, attention Karsticles (or whomever). If you could please relay the bold segments under the character spoilers with asterisks to Dahbomb, then I would be most appreciative; that or answering the asked questions yourself. Thank you in advance.
Let us begin:
Akuma
[details=Spoiler]Hmm…I’m not seeing any notes that his tatsu was made less of a stupid physical pseudo-beam that he can combo off of while single-footedly giving zoning the finger, so I’m guessing it probably still is. Sigh. Even with the necessary assist nerf, I had expected it wouldn’t change as much.
Oh well. At least he has less health now, meaning it will be even easier to kill him with Chris…if I can hit him or not get blown up by tatsu.[/details]
Amaterasu*
[details=Spoiler]Ugh, she can change weapons in air now? Profound sadness. Both because I think it’s utterly unnecessary and because I expect very few people who use her to make competent use of it, at least within a year of UMvC3’s release, outside of Clockwork, X-Ray and a few others; I just expect Okami Shuffle into Glaive combos being the only thing most other people actually use it for, though it’s not like she needed more damage off that damn super….
Anyway, when it comes to her airdash and being unable to block out of it, I’m guessing this is with regards to her just canceling the airdash, correct? Or is she geniunely unable to block until she hits the ground regardless of what she does (recovers), even if it’s something relatively safe like either of her supers? I’m guessing it’s just the former (in which case it isn’t nearly as much of a nerf as I feel it should be, especially with all the other stuff she got), but confirmation would be nice either way if possible.[/details]
Arthur*
[details=Spoiler]Ugh for an entirely different reason. He only got 50k as a health boost? What. I was expecting him to get an even millon (since he’s wearing freaking armor) or at least 900k since he desperately needs it (or at least needed it).
Sigh. This is what having expectations inevitably leads to: disappointment. Never hope, people. Never hope.
Oh well. At least he got faster specials (much needed), a slight mobility increase (even if he’s still the only person in the game without a dash) and his most important super got a buff (even if it’s still the only super in the game that self-destructs & gets you combo’d for free no matter what you do after a time because it breaks your guard and puts you in an OTG state, that leaves you in a weakened state for the rest of the match unless you spend another bar on it and that is on a character whose meter raising capabilities aren’t especially noteworthy [that I’m aware of]). Yep. Buffs…. [/vain optimism]
Speaking ever so cynically of his Air S, I must ask for clarification with regards to the OTG note. Does it mean he can just get to the ground faster to OTG (with his sluggish Fire Bottle)? Or that the Air S itself also OTGs in addition to rocket diving now?[/details]
Crimson Viper*
[details=Spoiler]As expected, they aren’t touching anything but her infinite probably, which they seem to be wanting to get rid of for everyone (thankfully). I wonder what this means for her cancels and if she’ll be able to do her stupid “safely seismo assists to death from across the screen” thing. I rather hope not, but as we said just above, I’m not hoping for anything if I can avoid that; I can’t think of any other reason why they decided to give her Cykes’ Optic Blast (other than his exclusion because Marvel hates him) though, but…Capcom—I wouldn’t be surprised if that ends up being busted as well if it isn’t outright useless, at least for the Goddess that is Theory Maya.
Anyway, has there been any news of whether she can still cancel her specials into EXs now? I vaguely remember someone mentioning that she might not be able to in the Ultimate Salt thread a couple of months ago, but I don’t play her and haven’t been keeping up so….[/details]
Captain America
[details=Spoiler]Wow. The fact that I’m not a patriot and the fact that I still find Captain America’s costume kinda dorky was one of few things that kept me from playing him much in vanilla where I’d argue that he’s still a more than decent character. Not that he didn’t need some buffs, but, wow, he got everything he “needed” and more to point where he’s arguably the most buffed character that actually needed buffs (after maybe Morrigan, though she arguably didn’t need anything but to do more damage [with less meter]); he arguably ties with Iron Man and Chris, but Tony got some nerfs as well and Mr. Redfield still has marked problems (meh supers and an inability to control the air almost at all) even with his needed improvements.
America! Fuck. Yeah.[/details]
Chris Redfield
[details=Spoiler]Haha. My main character got heavily buffed without me even expecting anything. See? This is why hope is a falsity.
As such, I suspect that his Level 3 super is still ultimately the worst/most inconsistent super in the game, but oh well, I’ll make it work and it at least you can combo into it and it’s more consistent in the corner (if you start it up immediately).
Lol at him getting a buff to incendiary grenade, though. Like murdering assists with him wasn’t easy enough. Rofl at him being able to do cr. H into Magnum because of Magnum’s speed increase. Time to find ways to kill people at or under 800k without spending (more than) one bar of meter.[/details]
Chunners*
[details=Spoiler]Hmm…she didn’t really seem to get much unless that damage boost is like 2x damage or something absurd, which is surprising since she’s Capcom’s flagship female character. Then again, the Marvel games are pretty much the only series where she’s ever been bad despite all her various designs and playstyles.
If I actually cared about her as a character (which I don’t really since, for some reason, I’ve always liked her design, but never her playstyles), then I’d be shaking my head rather greatly at her few changes. All she needed was an OTG—seriously, why doesn’t Kikosho OTG?—and instead she gets a GTFO move that needs to be charged, possibly while crouching/having to hold down, in game where both she needs to rushdown and air-dashes & instant overheads exist in great number. She probably can’t even combo off it, so I just…why?
Capcom, you lessen Magneto’s movement so he doesn’t completely obviate her (and a bunch of others). But then you still don’t give her anything threatening, so she just ends up likely getting obviated by other people? Uh…okay, sounds like a great plan.
Oh well. I suppose even if it’s nothing that’s actually helpful ultimately, it’s not harmful. At least being able to block after aerial Tenshokyaku (I hadn’t ever noticed until literally right now because of how safe the ground one is and only using the aerial one in combos) is a “buff”, though there was never any reason she shouldn’t have been able to do that in the first place. Same with actually being controllable now in XF3.
Anyway, given that they’re getting rid of all the infinites and Capcom is well-aware of Desk (if only via SRK), I have to ask: Has there been any news that they’re getting rid of of her top of the screen stomp infinite? I can’t picture them letting her keep it, even with the TAC change.[/details]
Dante*
[details=Spoiler]The accursed son of Sparda still manages to find ways to disgust me even with his “nerfs”. I was already wary of the unnecessary simplification of his motions, but I was willing to…“ignore” that in light of his lessened damage & meter building during his now possibly shorter combos.
…But you’re telling me they buffed Devil Trigger by giving him access to triple jumps and double air-dashes in it? The Devil Trigger that lets the user become the only character (I’m counting Virgil here) in the game that can heal while on the battlefield regardless of proximity and outside of XF? The Devil Trigger that already boosts his power and gives him access to absurd chip damage from the air that can’t be push blocked? The Devil Trigger that lets him become create even more ridiculous mix-ups, resets and teleport setups when he super cancels it? The Devil Trigger that’s almost completely safe in its recovery? The Devil Trigger that is arguably the best level 1 super in the game (if not the best super in the game sans maybe Gravity Squeeze) already because of all this? That Devil Trigger?
….
does Dante’s transformation shout while flipping a table
So bloody unnecessary. Will at least tell me that doesn’t build meter in Devil Trigger like some people build meter in power-up modes now? Because if he does now, I think I will explode like Hades out of pure rage.
Speaking of rage-inducing Dante attributes, when it comes to The Hammer, with the way the note is phrased, I’m guessing it still has a stupid amount of invincibility after it comes out (after a certain point), just not immediately in anymore—just like I’m guessing it still hits on both sides of him unnecessarily, still causes hard knockdown and still leaves him like +20 on block. Is this (unfortunately) correct?[/details]
Deadpool
[details=Spoiler]Holy shit. Wade can cancel special moves into his teleports now and has faster special moves? Doesn’t he have quickest teleports in the game already?
I mean, I doubt it might ultimately mean much, but I just find it incredibly hilarious (since I got time to test it out this time after my post exploded as aforementioned) that he’ll probably be able to get some substantial milage out of his teleport self-destruct now, especially since he can super cancel out of that (if “only” into his aerial gun super). Haha. Makes me wonder still if he can cancel out of his taunt to since that’s technically an attack…. At the very least, it would be an excellent way to troll someone.
I’m not sure how much losing the Bolo loop hurts him, admittedly, since I never really saw anyone use it and I never bothered to learn it myself, but I hope that we see more of him since these buffs definitely help and he was never a bad character to begin with.[/details]
Dread Dormammu
[details=Spoiler]Geez. I play the great and majestic Faltine lord, but even I’m a bit disgusted at all the buffs he got, especially since half of them seem rather unnecessary. Hell, I was saying in the Ultimate Salt thread that I’m glad his Flame Carpet isn’t so damn brandead now and goes away when you hit him. But now he gets a guaranteed Purification into Chaotic Flame or even a Level 3 off his ground throw in a game where it’s already too easy to get really good damn off of throws that are easily option selected?
Ugh…. I don’t even understand why they made his Level 3 even easier to hit with either. Were that many people really missing it before? It’s like you have to try miss with that thing.
Oh well. At least he got a few nerfs too and he didn’t get as many obnoxious buffs as….[/details]
Doctor Victor von Doom
[details=Spoiler]…They gave Dr. Doom nothing but buffs?
…They gave Dr. Victor von Doom nothing but buffs?
…They gave Doctor Victor von “Failure is FUCKING BENEATH” Doom nothing but buffs when he already was one of the best characters in the game because he could 100% you in the corner, was extremely mobile once you got used to him, had good priority & self-OTG and had excellent keep away & supers?
….
Capcom, I am unsure what you’re smoking sometimes, but, while I don’t partake of drugs myself, if you could share that with the masses, then I think everyone would be happier.[/details]
Felicia
Spoiler
Tastes like diabetes catgirl gets more ways to tell Advancing Guard to go “over there!” Is still never used competently by anyone despite being more than decent. Film at 11.
Mayor Mike Haggar*
[details=Spoiler]Hmm…I was going to grouse that Lariat giving a hard knockdown on point (as it should) was rather useless until I saw that cr. H acts as an OTG—at least I’m assuming that note means it knocks down still if they’re not on the ground already rather than the OTG part being uncertain. So, maybe he’ll be able to actually do something without meter if he lands a Lariat, though they would have had to make it recover faster than it does now; maybe they did if they stripped so much invulnerability off it as an assist.
…However, he’ll still have even to get in first place, which is the problem, especially if the game is becoming more geared towards zoning and he couldn’t really get in before. Not sure why they even bothered changing f+H—I preferred the huge hitsun, personally—to…whatever, but at least his Machine Gun super has something now since that just got stuffed by everything before.[/details]
Hsien-Ko*
[details=Spoiler]Like Chunners, she didn’t really seem to get much that she actually needed, though at least she got multiple buffs. I’ve noticed a couple of things missing that I thought had gotten mentioned, though, like her getting a general speed boost and her Chiretou (that ground knife super) going both ways like in Vampire Savior. Did those end up not being true?
Regardless (and I’ll try not to make any possibly racist Chinese girl jokes relating to abortion this time around), she still seems to at the mercy of the RNG when it comes to her projectiles, which isn’t any good, and her golden armor super is basically still looking like it’s only good if you immediately tag out (or in XF3). That’s unfortunate, but expected.
It would be nice if they took more cues from Vampire Savior and gave her (reasonably) cancellable pendelums or just relegated the damn bombs to like QCF+S or something. That or have them explode on contact. I understand their possible hesitancy to let her have consistent projectiles when she has a couple that can potentially dizzy (grounded) people, but, geez, she doesn’t do that much damage anyway and other people like Magneto & She-Hulk get essentially carte blanche dizzy(-esque) states that can anti-air people. So there’s really no damn reason for her to have projectiles that magically phase through people like they’re the Pryde of the X-Men, especially if they’re so stuck on her being utterly immobile (unlike in Vampire Savior) compared to almost everyone else and wanting her to zone.
But, alas…a lot of things would be nice…. I “hope” they made her gongs more consistent, though them coming out faster and Wesker’s gunshot nerf might fix much of the problems they had; probably not all of them though….[/details]
The Incredible Hulk
[details=Spoiler]Oh great. They made st.H even easier for people to spam online and thus not actually have to learn how to use Hulk, meaning even more people will just viciously squander the potential that Hulk actually has. Fantastic.
Sarcasm aside, I suppose it will at least legitimately help him more against Laura since she basically just slashed apart his knees with regards to everything he did sans Gamma Crush.
Hmm…I wonder if that new move is unblockable when it’s charged up all the way or if it “just” does chip damage. I have to wonder how cancellable it is as well and what it leads to considering all the armor he has available….[/details]
Invincible Iron Man*
[details=Spoiler]Beams characters getting buffs “out the ass”—I never understood that phrase, but I digress. I originally didn’t know why the hell they took away Tony’s double jump just because Steve got his back—“This one’s for Civil War”—in UMvC3, but with all these changes, that lose seems kinda justified….
Regardless, I hope he’s not just a poor man’s Magneto now for the people who want to use him. I’m sure I’ll regret those words when like Viscant or someone destroys me with him, but eh.
I kinda wish there was word that his Smart Bomb (assist) was faster, but that’s more to do with the dearth of usable (OTG) assists rather than Mr. Downey…er Mr. Stark himself.
It just occurred to me: On that note with regards to Proton Cannon having to be mashed now, it is known of whether this applies to the Angled Proton Cannon as well?[/details]
Jill Valentine
Spoiler
As I said in the Ultimate Salt thread, I was expecting neither of the DLC characters to get anything for a couple of reasons. I suspect any effort at all towards them was used to make them more polished in some areas unrelated to gameplay since they were rather…unfinished in some aspects. I’ll bemoan the lack of a more damaging self-OTG option for Jill later once/if I ever learn how to play her more properly.
Mental Organism Designed Only for Killing
[details=Spoiler]So he got the ability to drain meter? Interesting. I wonder with what though, especially since he didn’t really need that. However, I suppose had he already won buff-wise because of that Nextwave Elvis/Graceland M.O.D.O.K. costume he got, so I’m certainly not going to complain.
Hail to The King, baby.[/details]
…Damn it. I hit the (30,000 character shorter) post limit again with the list for all the characters. Great…now I’ll just have to post other half separately. Excellent.
Dread Dormammu
[details=Spoiler]Geez. I play the great and majestic Faltine lord, but even I’m a bit disgusted at all the buffs he got, especially since half of them seem rather unnecessary. Hell, I was saying in the Ultimate Salt thread that I’m glad his Flame Carpet isn’t so damn brandead now and goes away when you hit him. But now he gets a guaranteed Purification into Chaotic Flame or even a Level 3 off his ground throw in a game where it’s already too easy to get really good damn off of throws that are easily option selected?
Ugh…. I don’t even understand why they made his Level 3 even easier to hit with either. Were that many people really missing it before? It’s like you have to try miss with that thing.
Oh well. At least he got a few nerfs too and he didn’t get as many obnoxious buffs as….[/details]
lol who gets ground throws with Dorm? 
(Oh good. I didn’t have to wait too long.)
I really didn’t want to have to double post. Here’s the rest:
Magneto
[details=Spoiler]As annoyed as I am that he got buffed overall and that, for some reason, gravity now falls under the domain of magnetism, I must say that way the gravitation mechanics work certainly are…intriguing. I mean, I’d rather have Gravity (the Marvel character) in game than Magneto get anything to compensate for being (theoretically) less stupid now (or, at least, less braindead with disruptor), but meh.
I would have liked for them to decrease the ridiculous hold time of his throw even more, but we’ll see how it goes now—I also wouldn’t have minded them making it able to be mashed out of again, even if that personally wouldn’t have helped me since I tend to not to mash things as I’m always afraid I’m going to break them.[/details]
Morrigan Aensland*
[details=Spoiler]Whorrigan got quite the lowely pair of new coconuts…and I’m not just talking about what her new colors are likely to be. Nice to see that she does more damage now among other things. She sounds damn scary with everything now—good for her.
With respect to the QCF+S fireball, and I apologize if this has been known, but I must ask: Is it only available on the ground? Or does it work in the air as well? I vaguely recall that it couldn’t be, but I forget and it might have changed; I’m guessing it can’t, since otherwise that seems somewhat worrisome with it absorbing meter “twice” in Astral Vision (even as slow as it is starting-up).[/details]
Phoenix
[details=Spoiler]I still think don’t regular Phoenix needed such severe nerfs, especially with that health drop—I thought they were just going to drop her 400k, which is the least she should have had. She’s going to die to so much more on chip with just 375k now. Sigh.
I must admit that I’m surprised they gave her any buffs at all, however slight. It’s nice to see an increase in flight time and a decrease in (Air) L TK Shot’s recovery. So I guess that’s something.
…Still, I would have very much liked for them to just make regular Phoenix either usable as something other than a holding form for the Win Button that is XF3 Dark Phoenix or make her own separate character with 800k~ life. Not that this was ever going to happen, but one can dream, how futily.[/details]
Ryu*
[details=Spoiler]Hunh. I usually couldn’t care less about Ryu and I’ve never really used him in any game as such, but I think I might like these changes most of any character, surprisingly. It might just be because I can’t resist a Pocket Fighter reference (and his Denjin Shinkuu Tatsumaki is totally that) or the fact that he now apparently looks like Brock from Pokemon on his win screen; I also find it amusing how he “stole” from Cyclops as well. It’s also nice to see there be more usable assists (even if he has to be powered up and tag out to make it so).
I wonder if Denjin mode will be referenced in any other game with more “canon” to it. Hmm….
Speaking of that, he builds meter in Denjin mode, right? I vaguely remember noticing that he does in one of Maximillan’s videos, but I can’t recall clearly and I can’t look at it right now as I type this for…multiple reasons.
Anyway, I have to “officially” ask a few other things related to him: When it comes to his new Fireball, I’m guessing that “QCF+F” is just a typo of QCF+S and just a reiteration that not charging his New Hadouken gives him that uncharged-Sakura-esque one, right?
Also related to new fireballs, has it been confirmed whether or not aerial Denjin Shinkuu Hadouken bounces off the ground if you aim it down in an attempt to OTG? And if it does, does it still OTG like it normally would?
Finally, when it says that his hypers/supers can be mashed for more damage, does it mean all of them? Or “just” Shinkuu Hadouken and Shinkuu Tatsumaki? Regardless, I’m guessing they can be mashed for more damage outside of Denjin mode despite how it’s phrased, correct?[/details]
Sentinel
Spoiler
I can’t say I like those cr.M’s buffs and him getting a speed boost, but pretty much everything else he got is a nerf (including the drones now being a true block string, I’d argue), so meh. I still hate him as a character concept, but I’d rather he be usable than a waste of space even if I’m personally never going to use him. So I’ll just continue to turn him into scrap or applaud people who manage to do well with him through geniune effort or both as always.
She-Hulk*
[details=Spoiler]Hmmm…I remember that lampost having armor in the preview, so now I kinda wonder if she could do run stop armor-based shennigans since I now at least her clothestine move has some armor.
Anyway, Shulkie’s Taking out the Trash already has ton of invincibility frames now on the way up. Isn’t she already basically invulnerable until her apogee of that move? Or do you mean that they gave her even more frames of invulnerability on the way down or something?[/details]
Shuma-Gorath
[details=Spoiler]Like I said under Jill and as I said in the Ultimate Salt thread, I wasn’t expecting either DLC character to get buffed and neither of them did. Let me explain: I’m not counting this as a “buff” because this was something that Shuma was always able to do already (historically), albeit with life meter rather than super meter (which arguably makes it even less of a useful buff). So, while he maybe gives Phoenix teams some additional grief, he just becomes even more gimmicky without solving any of his numerous problems (as I’ve heard them told) where he’s basically like Hsien-ko in that he can’t do anything well except be a really annoying assist (though unlike her, at least can do that from the get-go and doesn’t have to spend meter & tag out).
I do, however, find it rather hilarious that he still has to be paid for even though he’s not only perhaps become the absolutely worst character in UMvC3 by default, but also that such a Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror who swallowed/is essentially his own dimension/universe is so low tier again. However, I do not want to speak of tiers now (or mostly ever), especially before the game even is out, so I’ll just drop this and move on.[/details]
Spencer
Spoiler
Rather glad that Death from Above is the only change to Spencer. Although I don’t play him and I don’t have any attachment to the character (having never played either version of Bionic Commando), I must admit that I like his playstyle and, even though I don’t think he exactly needed Death from Above, I can at least see why he got a new move/buff unlike some other questionable buffs. Good for him.
Spider-man
[details=Spoiler]Ha. I remember most people being rather pissed off in Petey’s UMvC3 thread when it came to changes to both Web Throws. However, that was a couple of months ago and I’m pretty sure it was before the Web Zip OTG or Web Throw into Maximum Spider was known, which both would help quite a bit even without all the other changes, so that probably changed.
Speaking of Maximum Spider, I really would like to think they either lessened its recovery so it isn’t “old lady falls down in a Lifeline commercial” slow or they made it track better because not hitting that damn thing is utter suicide. With regards to his other supers, I would have also liked to see Crawler Assault get more invincilibility considering how little it seems to have on start-up, especially compared to other supers, but, meh, maybe he can actually follow up with Web Zip now.[/details]
Storm
[details=Spoiler]Fair and Foul (heh) Wind should, like Magneto’s Gravitation, end up fairly interesting at the very least, even if they’re might ultimately gain my ire. Nice to see Ororo’s taking pages from a “shitty” vampire’s book.
pictures Rachel rocking Storm’s awesome mohawk
Among her other buffs, I’m perhaps most wary of that hailstorm buff. It’s not like she didn’t chip the hail (I’m sorry) out of people as it is, especially Jean—“You are like a sister to me Jean, which is why I will now freeze you to death even if you block, courtesy of Air X-Factor.” So it being even more difficult to escape when that wasn’t even an option for everyone is…questionable, even if it helps DHCs (not that she needed help there). Man, Air X-Factor is going to make Ororo so nasty now if she hits you with a hailstorm at all. Burr…. (I truly am.)
Still, it would be nice to see Ororo get used more, especially with her 80s Mohawk as an alt and with her no longer being some gigantic Nubian cunt who pseudo-breaks the game and flies off screen moaning at you constantly as she builds meter. So, eh, the devil you know….[/details]
Super Skrull*
[details=Spoiler]Level 3 causes stagger now? So it doesn’t launch into the air anymore after it’s done? That seems…weird if it’s true, especially since you could already kinda combo off it in the corner.
Anyway, speaking of people who benefit from Air X-Factor, I’d arguably say K’lrt benefits the most (or gets the most braindead use of it) with Inferno into Air Inferno, especially with aerial access to Meteor Smash now. At least they’re making you mash for maximum damage off Inferno, I guess, and Stone Smite might actually be usable now.
Even as further braindead as he might become along XF à Meteor Smash à Inferno lines, I really would like to see more people use him (competently). I think I’ve only seen Spooky (?) use him decently and that was only twice. It’s a shame, really….[/details]
Taskmaster
[details=Spoiler]Got a damage reduction overall. Thank Shiva. At least he won’t be so obnoxiously damaging (outside of XF3) even if you managed to block or, worse, got (air) thrown.
Part of me wants to do with him entirely now that you can just play almost all the people he steals from as one team. Spider-man/Hawkeye/Captain America represent(ed by someone else who isn’t me)![/details]
Thor Odinson
Spoiler
Hunh. I’m rather surprised they gave him such reasonable minor changes since, even if he was (and likely still is) extremely dependent on assists, giving him major ones would have made him godlik…er godly. He basically got everything he “needed” outside of a Mighty Thunder that pushes back on block (or recovers much faster), but, meh, can’t be greedy. Good for him. I’ve found him extremely fun to play myself as of late, so I would like to see more of him.
Trish
[details=Spoiler]The other demon-whore I was talking about when it came to getting unnecessary buffs. I really don’t know why Capcom thought she was unsafe when it’s difficult to touch her as it is or why they gave her the ability to OTG over characters who actually need it still–coughChun-licough–just to be threatening.
Hell, her single nerf isn’t even really (much of) a nerf if she can still cancel specials and supers out of it unlike other people, which she probably still can. I just don’t know what they were thinking with her….[/details]
Tron Bonne
[details=Spoiler]Speaking of not knowing what they were thinking, I’m really not sure why j. H got nerfed unless it just leads into atrocious shit with the new stuff she got. I mean, obviously Gustaff Flame needed to be put down as an assist, but nerfing jump H just seems…wrong, ultimately.
I would like to proven wrong on that matter, though, so maybe Clakey D and the few other people actually used Tron for more than her assist know or can figure out something.[/details]
Viewtful Joe*
Spoiler
Hmmm…not much is confirmed here, so I just have to ask about one of the two things that was confirmed: His “Zoom” Dodge counts as a special move, meaning that he can only cancel it with supers, correct?
Albert Wesker*
[details=Spoiler]Ah, so that’s the gun shot nerf people were talking about. Haha. Now I see why people were happy in the Ultimate Salt thread before I vanished. I certainly agree with that change as well as the health nerf and the teleport slowing. I also agree with the sunglasses mechanic—Wesker always did have a rather severe temper, so it certainly fits.
Speaking of the sunglasses mechanic, I’m guessing this means that Phantom Dance puts his shades on now rather than takes them off, correct? That would certainly make sense and it seems rather evident given the phrasing, but I just want to confirm since it’s a marked if sensible change. Good to know that tagging him out resets his sunglasses now as well. It’s going to be fun hitting him with snapbacks now….[/details]
Wolverine
Spoiler
Haha, such delicious nerfs here. The salt must flow.
X-23
Spoiler
I’m still not quite sure Laura needed any of these buffs since I already thought she was most balanced character in vanilla, but, eh, I like her and these certainly don’t seem to break anything, so more power to her. Maybe people besides Tatsujinken and DevilJin 01 will use her now.
Zero
[details=Spoiler]Ugh, what am I fighting for?! Why did he get more health on top of all that bullshit while Phoenix & Akuma lose it and Arthur gets next to nothing? Especially since like half of those nerfs are due to buggy crap that should have never existed in the first place?
Sigh. It looks like even with his departure, Inafune’s eternally tumescent erection for Zero still lives on at Capcom in spirit. Unfortunately for us, (Megaman) X (still) isn’t here either….
Oh well. At least he’s voiced by Johnny Bosch, so I’ll have a nice voice to listen to while I get bodied all over the stage by Hienkyaku-feinted-Lv3-Buster cancels. Hurray….[/details]
Whew. Finally done with that (again). Sadly, the above actually IS slightly shorter than last time. (Yes, I am horrible person. Why do you ask?)
Anyway, quote time now that I have space (maybe).
Really? That’s a shame. There’s no reason this thread should be closed unless, perhaps, it devolves into needless whining about things that can’t/aren’t going to be change or other such drivel, which I suppose is entirely possible given the nature of both the Internet and SRK.
Oh well. Thanks for trying at least.
Really? That’s rather interesting. With wave-dashing, I guess means everyone can beat it sans Arthur, Hsien-ko and Hulk; this means I’ll have to actually learn how to wave-dash (again) since Chris actually has one now and I don’t think I really played anyone else that majorly benefited from it (if they ever had it) over air-dashing. Technically more people than that can’t beat it on the ground, such as Dormammu, Dr. Doom and Spider-man since they don’t have wave-dashes due to hopping, but they all have (at least) air movement, so…
Oh yeah, no doubt. It’s still going to be better than light Disruptor spam just because it will actually require thought, meaning less Magneto (assists) online, which makes online slightly more bearable.
So Storm’s Foul Wind is pretty strong, you say? snickers
Yeah, seriously. I don’t even play Arthur with any type of investment and even I’m disappointed. Maybe his special speeds actually make up for it if Chris’s speed buffs are any indication–I still can’t get over how quick the Magnum is now. If the sword is faster and has less recovery now, maybe he can actually keep teleporters from walking all over him.
Hasn’t his Gold Armor always done that, though? I was under the impression that it currently increases his health by 20% while his health decrease by 30% while he has only his boxers on. So while it would increase his health more with that (meager) 50k boost, I don’t think it’s anything new exactly.
Pretty sure Magneto is half of the game’s worst matchup just because of Disruptor and the other half of the game doesn’t really all that good against him sans maybe Amaterasu (whom almost no one uses effectively even though she should arguably almost as busted Mags himself). Not to say that LL.ND doesn’t have a point–just that Magnus is…Magnus.
Oh, and since we’re speaking of Hsien-ko’s many problems (again), I thought I’d share another depressing tidbit about her. Maybe it’s because it comes out so slowly, but a few days ago I discovered that apparently Chris can cleanly tag Hsien-ko under her gong with his f+M (and probably his useless as lay flat move) even if it’s already out but close to her. It’s…weird, but hilarious that now I don’t even need to really jump or toss incendiary grenades to obviate the gongs.
Good to know that Ph.D in Zombiology from S.T.A.R.S. university paid off for Mr. Redfield.
I get ground throws with Dorm because I’m magnificent even though it seldom happens when I want it to (damn Dark Matter overlap). But, really, I think I tend to get it because I tend to actually try to zone with Dorm rather than diving at people with j. H and j.S and teleporting all over the place (okay, that last part’s a lie, but I generally only teleport to cross people up with Stalker Flare at the last second), so I’m generally in the air less (or, at least, in the air pressing H like a maniac less). And my Dormammu is rather mediocre, so…
My point was more that it’s possible at all, especially since you don’t have work for throws in this game, Level 3 aren’t scaled and his throws launch you rather far away from him.
to be quite honest, now that I’ve seen some footage of Ultimate IM in action, I’m not sure about that air dash either. double jump meant you could do the same basic LMHS, double jump combo, land, OTG+assist, relaunch, MMHS, OTG special xx super that Viper can do and get a little over 700k just like that. with an even slower air dash you get Magneto/Storm-style flight mode combos but his high-low game is pretty much gone since you can’t do double overheads anymore… oh wait, they gave that to Strider. smh. :\
Mmm, all that Dante hate is delicious.
Then I take my hat off to you sir. The fact that you can get close enough to throw someone without them smashing buttons is a feat.
(And yet again I feel like I’m forgetting something horribly obvious to ask. Hmm…)
Meh. Thanks for the thanks, but throwing people isn’t really that difficult, especially with the right assist. Considering people usually had to duck Haggar when I was using him, that helped (at least against some characters–freaking Zero and Amaterasu).
Haha. You think that Dante hate was delicious? Have you been to the Ultimate Salt thread?
Your stomach would explode.