lol ok mind telling me where I’m lacking?
I never claimed anything to have any 100% percent chance. Your simply trying to make a personal argument of this.
I be happy if you can make your post more professional. If not than just don’t bother replying to me.
First off, “Keo” I’ve never heard of you until this thread, so I could care less of a fuck about making anything “personal” with you.
Secondly, you need to think before you tell someone on a GAMING forum to be professional, you also need to use proper grammar if you’re going to call out professionalism. “I be happy” What the shit is that?
I was making a general statement, anyone who is against the use of infinities, or against 100% CC combos, is lacking MAJOR skill. If you can’t beat it, it means you’re not good enough to, simple as that. “Banning” things that are beatable, and take time and skill to learn is a bitch way to stop someone from using something to win.
Like I said, I personally HATE those combos, but I find ways to beat them; instead of crying and trying to get them “banned”.
You “not liking” a tactic has absolutely no bearing on whether or not it makes the game unplayable. Critical Counters occur infrequently, are easy to avoid, and very rarely do they happen against a cornered enemy in a game with such pronounced mobility options. If that wasn’t enough, you have 3 characters on your team; one elimination does not equal defeat. There is absolutely no logical reason for a ban.
It’s a really bad idea to dive into this subject so quickly. People tend to want to ban anything that bothers them emotionally, for both logical and illogical reasons. Infinites do not necassarily ruin games. This is a prime example of an infinite that will probably have very little effect on the way the game is played. Give it more time.
your defiantly right about my grammar. (How did I miss that? being too lazy I guess)
Besides that if your post was towards general rules. I don’t understand how my values towards gimmick justify my ability as player. I’m very well capable of dealing with these things but that doesn’t mean I have to accept these standards, and for game that has yet to set its standards I simply like to point my reason why I’m not in favor of them.
Please don’t take my argument as some excuse for my personal ability. I personally think such advantages such as infinite’s combo or 100% combos ruin competitive integrity.
Though I think things like this still should be handle in a “case by case” way.
Edit:
@Kamui: I admit that I maybe acted bit rash on this case. Such advantages like these I think ruin competitive integrity.
This infinite is actually one of the easier ones to land. I just busted out my digital camera and behold my second try after failing the small jump.
You can go straight into the infinite after just one standing C or D. It’s really not that hard to do. The key to it all is the rising C into the falling jump C.
[media=youtube]nnIHzNYo1sc[/media]
Sorry about the bad quality vid but it’s just to show you can lead in however you like as long as your able to do rising C into the falling jump C correctly.
Like I said even the best players get caught in infinities. Problem is with FG communities and how players deal with things is that it’s contradicting the entire way. You said people should deal with and if they want XX banned then they lack MAJOR skill. You’re on SRK. You plan to tell all the top ST/HDR players and they EVO staff that they lack major skill because they banned Akuma who is beatable and in the arcade version of ST?
What I find amusing if how people say that they follow the rule “If it’s in the arcade version, then it’s MEANT to be in the game.” Yet infinities and glitches and the like weren’t intended to be in the game but people let those fly. So who the Hell blurred the line? An infinite is not intended to be in the (arcade)game. Simple as that. The Guilty Gear community follows this rule with the EX, gold, shadow, and boss characters. And over time every installment of GG the company behind the game never changed those rules. You never saw EX characters, Kliff and Justice in the arcade version because that’s what the dev team intended.
Like how you hate infinities, I hate some characters in some games. I hate Zangeif and think he’s a cheap bitch. I think Daimon is one of the most broken and overpowered characters in gaming history. I think command grabs in KOF are overpowered. But you’d be a fool to think I’m not dedicating my time to learning how to deal with these issues that I have. I didn’t know how Robert faces O.Chris so I found a match in which Dakou OCVed a top tier team with Robert. I downloaded that match and studied it many times over to learn what I could. I’m not a good player so yeah I lack skill. But I am willing to learn matchups and how to overcome the odds.
It’s not like being able to cancel into specials being a glitch in OG SF2 that was approved and kept in the later games by Capcom. Unless there’s proof that SNK intended for infinities/glitches whatever to be in KOF XII, then it shouldn’t be allowed.
Also what’s interesting about where you stand is that Elizabeth and Mature are in the console version of KOF XII. Following these blurred “rules” they will be banned from tournament play. Since Arcade>console. I discussed this with Anakron and of course as I expected he did his “GG NO RE” and signed off. I guess he too can’t accept that the rules are a joke. When the time comes for Elizabeth and Mature to be banned, I’ll be saying the same thing you said. People need to learn how to deal with it. And watch as I and pretty much everyone else will expect, people will cry about it. “No Elizabeth and Mature in tournament play. They’re not in the arcade version so they weren’t meant to be.”
So then will you say that they lack “major skill”?
You’re right, it often is quite hypocritical. Trolls don’t listen to logic- “GG NO RE” is the best they can often do. SF4 allowed the console chars. SC4 still doesn’t have set rules on those chars. (legal some places, banned locally and some other places)
Besides, if you’re using arcade rules, these infinites should be banned, because they haven’t been proven to be in the arcade version- if they were in that, don’t you think the Japanese would have discovered them before the console release? Odds are they were patched in by mistake.
I’m not even saying definitely ban, I’m just saying that if these infinites become too easy, they should be. Infinites tend to become easier to land over time, not harder.
Lots of unintended options are found in fighting games, that really isn’t an argument. Many of the high level tactics used in these games where unintended. That’s part of what makes them interesting. The problem with banning anything at all is that it introduces home rules into an environment that already has set rules. Doing so allows for destructive tampering. When combined with the general public’s jumpy notion to immediately ban anything they deem cheap or unfair, unnecessary changes are made to things that were never unfair to begin with.
This largely happens to smaller communities. The U.S. SNK community has been especially bad about being very outspoken about these matters, and it only hurts the situation further. Players tend to ban things that they have negative emotions towards before that actually know what they’re dealing with. MvC2, regardless of how you feel about it, would not be nearly as interesting of a game if people just started banning the tactics that are commonly used today.
As I said before, there’s no proof that this infinite is entirely destructive to game’s fundamentals. It doesn’t matter that it’s apparently easy to execute, landing it is very situational. Banning this sort of stuff completely halts a game’s evolution, and in cases where bans may have been warranted, doing so would not have saved the game from becoming a complete mess (see SvC Chaos).
Ahem, Akuma from ST, was by ALL MEANS, impossible to beat. Jump back double fireball, unbeatable. Hence, banned.
Infinities have already been used in tournaments before. That’s right…they’ve been used.
Console characters vs Arcade characters? SF4 @ EvO had ALL console characters in it sir.
Console versions of games are now different, they get patched, improved and changed. This means for tourney purposes…that’s right, CONSOLE would be best to use. Why? Because if they company decided “oh shit we didn’t want that” they can patch it out, can’t they?
By the way the definition of skill is what? An ability that has been acquired by training. You don’t just START doing an infinity instantly, you have to have timing, and practice, making it…well…you know.
Overall, I think all this “OMFG BAN THIS” is a joke, and a sad one. That’s just my opinion, if you don’t like it…welllll welcome to the internet friends.
Why do you hate? Also, FYI, I hope you know that Elizabeth and Mature were intended to be in the arcade version of the game. KoF XII Black was supposed to be the arcade update.
The more you know.
Kamui and DRCSyntax said everything I wanted to say so there’s no need for redundancy.
What if the proof develops? STHD Akuma ban was called for by Damdai about three weeks after game’s release. Several months later he gets banned. People still whined about the banning , and called the people who wanted Akuma banned whiners, even after Sirlin admitted he screwed up.
What I’m saying is that this has the potential to be destructive, especially since this game is showing to be well crafted and balanced otherwise. If that potential develops, and SNK doesn’t fix this (it likely will, since this is possibly an introduced console-only bug), then it’s gotta be debated.
Besides, if console was the best version as was claimed above, wouldn’t that mean arranged is the way to go. For SNK, Sam Sho Tenka and KOFXI arranged both removed infinites.
Which environment are we talking about? Im not aware of this set of rules. But this is also why I said these type of scenario needs to be handle on a case by case thing.
Why this does has to been seen as bad? To want enforce value that number of people want set as standard.
If player has an advantage that pretty much keeps him/her in complete control of match not fundamental breaking than I really must not know fundamentals.
keo-bas you complain about everything
personally, im not planning on being hit by ccs period
later
Uh, the in-game rules? Overall game structure, etc; if one player’s life reaches 0%, they lose the round…?
In the same way that most people can’t make an informed decision about politics, their lives, or what soda to order, the loudest of folk are often the most incorrect. As I said, making snap decisions about game tactic bans has almost always been either futile or destructive. Eliminating a really good tactic does not always mean it’ll make the game better, sometimes people find unique ways to counter the tactic, or sometime players learn to play in safer/smarter ways to stay away from bad situations. Banning a technique always comes with the risk of halting the game’s evolution. Example: “if we’re going to ban one infinite, why not ban them all, even if a certain low tier character may need it”.
You’re over exaggerating something that you yourself have not even dealt with yet. It has been explained multiple times that there is no evidence to support that this infinite ruins the fundamentals of the game. Joe landing a CC near a corner already lead to 50%-60% damage without the infinite. CCs are generally not earned until both players have lost much of their life. There are three characters to kill, a wide playing a field, and several defensive options at your disposal. An insta-kill CC off of one of the worst positions fall into in any game isn’t going to hurt anything.
I highly recommend that everyone drops this discussion until we’ve seen how the game is played with these new findings. This doesn’t mean we should ban it the second a player wins with it (it wouldn’t matter if Justin Wong won a US tournament with the Joe infinite, he would’ve won regardless), but instead the community should take a far more passive approach to bans until we have better data to work with.
My case is not an exaggeration. I admit that kof that its less piratical. But if if their a factor that dominates others, it destroyed the integrity of competition. Not only in Kof case. I admit that we shouldn’t ban something right away till proven broken. In infinite’s combo case its usually a no brainier that their broken unless they have some form of a cost. Same for 100% percent combos.
Also as low tier player I learned to deal with match ups and developed an appropriate strategy for them. No one never need an game breaking advantage to play.
You’re making too many assumptions here. The bug is probably based off a problem with KOF XII’s corners, which is present in the arcade version as well. This problem comes in other forms outside of this infinite.
SNK always removed infinites from the console versions of the game. All this did was make it impossible for players to practice something that may be useful in the arcade version. An infinite in KOF XI was almost meaningless though, not only was a combo breaker function implemented, but most combos lead to an instant kill anyways. Infinite combos hurt very little.
It almost seems like they were going to go with the auto-crossup in the corner, like SF4, but then decided against it at the last moment.
KOF games have had the cornering auto-crossup from SF4. I even called it the SNK crossup when I first saw it (NGBC has it too- and is a huge reason why Kim is broke in that game)
Odds are this is an introduced console glitch. Again, why wasn’t this found in the arcade with a 4 month head start, yet about 2 weeks after launch here?
BTW the reason they were removed from console is because they weren’t intended. If infinites were actually intended, games would keep them from version to version. Tag games such as KOFXI/Marvel I tolerate infinites more then 1 on 1 games. I can’t think of an infinite that ever was. BTW you couldn’t combo break in a juggle, so Vanessa’s infinite was deadly, and could be set up off some tag combos so you could do it with many characters effecitvely if you had a skill stock.
I saw this used reliably and regularly in tournies.
I’ll admit it is possible that this isn’t so bad. I just see the potential for it to mess up the game. At the very least I don’t think it adds anything worthwhile, as it’s not like Joe needs a boost or anything, he’s already near top.
oh no you didnt. they fucked up the throws in xii, you must be happy.
and a good fighter lacks infinites, unless their practice mode infinites that require infinite meter.
way to miss the point