@ryg
No ones whining!.
TC is useless, you don’t whiff punish with st.mp you do it with cr.mk>lk axe kick/fireball. If you do whiff punish with it (which is really hard because it has less range than cr.mk/sweep), you can always cancel into hk tatsu or lk axe kick and it will never be out of range. Also, st.mp>lk axe kick is better to do especially if you have meter to fadc it. Tatsu sweep was actually a good buff until DWU was introduced but we have to wait and see how much DWU affects hard knockdowns.
I forgot to mention red focus before, it will suck for all shotos. E.ryu’s only armour breaker is axe kick and we all know that it sucks to use against focus because of its speed. When someone has 2 bars it will be really risky to do cr.mk>fireball unless you want to get hit by random red focus lol. Also be careful of red focus on wake up when you are doing ground pressure because it will beat frame traps like shimmy cr.mp/cr.mk>fireball.
Are you refering to the XiaoHai vs PrRog set? XiaoHai have NO IDEA on how to play that matchup. Its 6-4 to balrog but he managed to make it looks like 9-1.
Theres a lot of things to use against him:
Anyway, hes gonna be worse than he is now. He is going to lose most of his setups. Theres a ton of matchups where those setups makes the difference. Balrog is one of those matchups. Now Evil Ryu will get obliterated by him. The setups also are not very effective against Bison but they help. Now Evil Ryu is a no-go against him. Evil Ryu vs Makoto is 5.5 in Makoto’s favor imo, but thats because E.R. have 2 unblockable that wins most of the rounds to him. Now that he loses it and Makoto is getting buffed, plus that idiot -5 dp FADC, the matchup is gonna be 10-0 to makoto. I dont see a single matchup where hes going do better now than he did before. Maybe Akuma.
He didnt use setups against Gen because theres no decent setup against Gen. He didnt used the unblockables against Feilong because he had no opportunities. The setup is to be used when Evil Ryu have the ultra. The U1 covers ALL of Feilong’s options and the U2 covers all but one, and a very suicidal one. And if he have no meter hes going to use HP DP that also covers all options of Fei, but depending on the way the match is, may not be a good option (getting cornered for only a CH DP). But if Evil Ryu landed one or 2 hits and them a full combo starting with cl.HP, the HP DP will probably to get feilong dizzy. The unblockable is quite important in that matchup as well. Did Sako won without using them? His merit, but the matchups were a lot unfavorable to him.
You guys say that hes a character that only got buffs. He got huge nerfs with the mechanics changes. Its going to help with certain matchups but its going to hurt him in the majority of them. He got nerfed for good in overall.
That -5 is BS!!!.
His mix-ups won’t work because delayed wake up most of the time. Certain mix-ups wins E.Ryu match’s.
Rose is another matchup that is going to be impossible. I already find it to be one of his hardest matchups because you literally stand no chance against her pokes. Now that Rose is getting buffed and we can’t apply our pressure against her weakness, her weak wakeup options because dwu will mess with our OSs against back dashes. I can see the match being 7-3 or worse and I already find it really bad. It’s my hardest matchup by far so I might be biased, idk, but I don’t see how e.ryu can win it.
I’ll probably drop E.Ryu after a few months of USF4 because I know it’s going to be harder to win with him.
Why did they revert the lk tatsu range buff T_T. That was actually a useful buff and will be really important for his game plan. Instead they give him other buffs which don’t compliment it.
We’ll have to agree to disagree then. The system changes hurt everybody’s set ups and their are changes to other characters that may affect their match up with Evil Ryu as well. I still think he’ll be good, maybe not top 10 but a pretty solid character. We’ll find out eventually how everybody feels about him after spending enough time with him in USF4.
As for Rose, the extra damage will be a problem but she doesn’t have a reliable reversal anymore. EX spiral lost throw invincibility, she can’t do anything to beat throws except yolo Ultra 1 or Super. And those are 2 moves she won’t have access to all the time. She’ll be more predictable on wake up because of the fear of getting thrown. Tick throw her all you want now, she can’t blow you up for it unless she wants to mash Super or Ultra 1 and has the meter for it.
Her reversal alone isn’t a problem. It’s more of her backdash/focus backdash added with delay wakeup and her reversal. Dealing with more options without being able to OS will make it harder. You will be the one guessing what she will do after a knockdown instead of being able to apply free pressure.
I’m not referring to jump ins, I’m referring to meaties. If you land a throw or sweep against her just wait for her to get up and throw her with no fear of taking damage for it whether she does DWU or not. If this causes her to back dash on wake up then OS into sweep to put her back in the same situation. It’s still a guessing game, but with no U1 or Super, you have no reason to be afraid of pressuring her after a knockdown.
Yeah but you are sacrificing your jump mixups for ground pressure which is MUCH weaker. Can evil ryu even os sweep Rose’s back dash on ground pressure? I can’t remember.
Her back dash E.Ryu can’t sweep. I think…
Yes he can, and that’s with his 7f sweep. So that will still be around in Ultra with his 6f sweep. Or if you have meter, OS cr MK > LK axe kick/hado FADC for big damage. When you get them to stop back dashing so much, hop kick > EX tatsu will come in handy if they mash tech. It’s risky because it’s very punishable, but the pay off can be huge because of the damage you get from it, especially in the corner.
Grounded pressure will always be weaker than jump in damage. But that’s a fate everybody will suffer now. As for Rose, I still think the match up will be in Rose’s favor, but I don’t think it got worse though.
I’m sorry, but this is all kind of hilarious to me. I think you can really see who actually played fighting games before SF4 in this thread and all the USF4 threads like this one.
Anytime I see someone complain about the SRK FADC “nerf”, their opinion has been completely invalidated to me. SF4 was, as far as I can remember, the first FG to give the option to make SRKs safe. I think that’s where you see the big divide come in at. There are those who are pre-SF4 that are completely fine with it and for the most part welcome it back… then you have those who really got started with SF4 and think that they NEED that safe option. I think the only character who could really make the argument that they need it would be Sagat, but when you combine this change with DWU there is much less need for that kinda safe pressure escape.
USF4 is going to be about footsies. This is how Street Fighter should be. Setups will still exist and be important, but they won’t be guaranteed and won’t be a massive focus of the game like it is now.
And for people who say E.Ryu has no ground game - WTF! Sure, he’s no Fei or Chun, but between cr.mk/far st.mk/new sweep/far st.fp/chop/decent lights/slow-ish startup but decent recovery fireballs, he can more than hold his own in a footsie battle. I tend to float between characters a lot in fighting games and E.Ryu definitely does not fall into the category of “bad ground game”.
The characters that are going to excel in USF4 will be footsie-based. They’ll be the characters with the really good pokes and the ability to turn one hit into massive damage. He might not have the best pokes in the game, but they’re nothing to scoff at and absolutely no one can say that he can’t turn a poke into massive damage. The fact that he still builds meter easily and still has a massive range on his special cancel-able cr.mk alone means he’ll still be a threat in most matchups.
He still has the ability to be played both offensively and defensively, his footsies will still be decent (even improved), and his damage is still going to be fantastic. On top of that, he’s moving up a bracket in stamina! That makes a huge difference! As for the “nerfs”, none of his bad matchups were un-winnable in the first place and the changes in USF4 that hurt him the worst are the ones that hurt his worst matchups just as badly.
You need to take a minute and look at the larger picture; there are characters that do and will have it much worse. I never understand why people ask for so much when a new version comes out… ESPECIALLY when your character isn’t even bad in the first place.
The only real problem I have with USFIV is DWU.
My whole game is focused around getting a hard knockdown and starting the mixups. The fact that I can’t do that anymore will be really annoying to say the least. I’m already trying to change my gameplan but its tough.
I’m really glad with the vitality boost, but thats really the only good buff we got.
They could have made some things better like HK AxeKick which is useless right now. The TC buff is also useless because I would rather go for the damage then the hard knockdown. Taking in effect DWU, there really is no real reason to go for it especially in USFIV.
I don’t wan’t E.Ryu to get really good buffs and he becomes A-tier. Because everyone will start bitching about how good he is and we are just tier whores. But the ‘‘buffs’’ we are now getting don’t really effect his game plan which got fucked up by DWU.
He’ll still be my main but everyone needs to stop saying that he is to good and will be better!
Sorry for the rant and my lack of english (second language) 
@Donfloris
That’s how I see it too. Reason I don’t find sweep buff that good is because there is no reason to use it over cr.mk besides it being 1 frame faster. It’s a lot easier to whiff punish than a cr.mk and cr.mk has a lot more reward when used. Their ranges are almost identical too, I would have rather preferred a 7 frame sweep with a little bit more range.
We’ll just have to wait and see but I bet Sako will be dropping E.Ryu in USF4 since he’s not really a character loyalist.
I don’t see why people think DWU is so damn soul crushing for E.Ryu. He’s no Akuma, Cammy, or Ibuki. It was never the cornerstone of his game, it helped… but he could definitely win without it.
You can still go for setups off of hard knockdowns, but you need to be aware that they may use DWU. In which case you can attempt a meaty, back off, or whiff something and make him guess whether you’re going to block, go high or low, or throw, or WHATEVER. Plus, you have to remember that with the SRK FADC “nerf”, they’re gonna be much less willing to throw out SRK reversals on wakeup. I think a lot of people look at DWU and how it would affect AE2012 and not how it’s going to affect things with all of the changes from USF4 included. It may take a bit, but I’m sure people will even come up with decent enough setups for DWU or even both timings off hard knockdown.
The setup focused gameplay can become so mindless sometimes that i’d much rather have it so everyone is on a much more even playing field with oki/setups. Now you’re just going to have to think a little bit more, is that really that bad?
@cr0wley
I see where you are coming from, and that is probably why they gave him the vitality buff. Because now you have done you’re combo and are back in the footsie game.
But E.ryu is a mixup char, they gave him a divekick for a reason. That thing is a 50/50 mixup on its own. Applying that on a HKD (hardknockdown) setup and soon thats all that you are looking for. They block everything? Fine use an EX AxeKick which causes a HKD and you’re back with the 50/50 mixup. Everything he has ends in an HKD. That is now useless because of DWU, because if we make a mistake we take big damage.
All in all DWU is better for SFIV in general and throws away the mindless vortex (with zero penalties for some chars). But for E.Ryu, almost everything he has is unsafe, but gets rewarded when you finally found that opening. I mean come on Oni LK slash is safe on block, thats just stupid. That should mean our LK AxeKick should also be safe?! The matter of the fact is, I don’t care if it gets safe but oni still has better normals than E.ryu! So he stand his ground better in a footsie game. We have our HKD mixups, but that gets thrown out the window. Sure you can mixup a throw but I would rather be thrown than take a combo for 350+ damage.
People will always find new setup/mixups, but they will never be as good as it was in AE2012. The SRK-nerf was aimed for the pressure with no downsides, wakeup AA srk doesen’t get affacted by this.
I really do agree where you are coming from and it will shift the balance in some of our more annoying mu’s (Akuma, Ibuki, Cammy). Its overall better for the game and E.Ryu really still does stand his ground. But trying to find that one opening against a downbacker bison with his mindless scissorrkick pressure. Doing 350+ damage and having to start finding a new opening, is just horrible.
I just think its unfair considering the buffs E.Ryu got.
Again sorry for the rant, its nothing personal!
I understand where you’re coming from, but I’d like to make a comparison.
I play a lot of Yun. A lot of Yun’s oki mixup comes from soft knockdowns. Let’s say I land mk upkicks. At this point I go for neutral jump mk which is a safe jump if they quick stand. If they don’t quick stand, then I can whiff a mp and go for another neutral jump mk. That’s just one example. There’s plenty of examples out there of characters who get a majority of their mixups/setups off of soft knockdowns and not all of them have frame tight setups built in for NOT quick standing. Are those characters low tier and busted? Fuck no they aren’t.
I think people are making mountains out of molehills, as people tend to do when they hear changes are coming to their fighting games. If you could go back and look at the initial reactions going from 2nd Impact to 3s or from Alpha 2 to Alpha 3 or for a more modern example - from SF4 to SSF4 to SSF4AE to SSF4AE2012. I can guarantee you see people saying some wacky shit about how their character is ruined and all the best things ever have been stolen from them and Ono shit in their cereal on top of all that. That never turns out to be the case, though.
DWU will change things, but it will not completely invalidate hkd setups. None of his hkd setups will be unsafe, they just won’t be guaranteed safe pressure. Let’s say you do a forward throw with E. Ryu and then go for cr.lp x2/st. mp whiff or whatever you prefer to do and then forward jump divekick/crossup mk. They don’t use DWU, you get your mixup. They use DWU, you still have time to throw a meaty out. Maybe neutral jump tatsu shenanigan? Maybe whiff a cr. lp or 2 to make 'em sweat, then block…or throw… or do an actual meaty? You have 11 frames to play with when they DWU. The point is that you’re still getting rewarded for those hard knockdowns, it’s just not a free ticket to pressure anymore - which I think everyone can agree, can get a bit out of hand in SF4.
As for the downbacker Bison thing, I don’t know if that’s the best example just because turtling is something that’s always been around and there has always been ways to deal with it. That Bison being a turd and just sitting there? Tick throw/frame trap that punk ass. Mix some st. lk’s into your fireball game to make him go for U2 or headstomps or his nice new ex. scissor and then fuck him up.
You say doing 350+ damage (You should be glad that E.Ryu can even get that kind of damage off of a random poke, there’ll be characters in Ultra that can’t even get that) and then having to find a new opening is horrible, but to me that’s fighting games. The whole idea here is that there’s room for back and forth between players. This game should not be Marvel Lite. Momentum and mixups/setups will still be important, but it won’t be as strong as it used to be. You know there’s something wrong when the top tiers in this game have been consistently dominated by the safe jump heavy vortex crowd in almost every version. What about all those characters that don’t play that game? Well, now the playing field is a little more even and everyone is going to have to play a little more honest.
edit - I think this video (while it is Sako being godlike) goes a long way in showing just how capable E. Ryu is without having to rely on setups to win: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OEBuVU5ZoAo