why is everyone shitting on me :’(
lol. my bad.
you gotta refresh srk every 10 minutes like i do when im not sleep
I made it cool
Might as well just remove the buff at that point. That’s really not a distance Sim would want to use s.mk in a poking match.
I really don’t understand why everyone wants Sim to suck. I know that most of the player base seems to embrace the hard knockdown fishing to set play 4 has turned into, but it’s really uninteresting to a lot of us.
fuck you
[quote=“HNIC_Mike, post:4160, topic:162662”]
I think you’re prob right about the yoga sniper thing. I mean Vega can EX Wall dive punish before Dhalsim hits the ground, probably possible to back breaker it as Hugo
In regards to “block a sMK and dash forward” the thing is that sMK is only -3F in AE2012 and in USF4 it’s probably only -2F given the 2hit nature. I dunno if that is going to be a consistent option.
Here is the thing, I actually did measurements on this. If they made it so that he could only get both hits at the range that 90% of the cast cannot duck under crMK and has to block it even if crouching (barring a couple of really short crouching characters like Chun it’s everyone.) at that range Sim’s sMK would STILL be the farthest reaching fastest startup safest on block 2hit normal in the game. I’m not saying it needs to be changed whatsoever but I think there is a major lack of perspective on this normal because as a 1hit normal sMK is solid but not exceptional, especially given it’s huge hurtbox and the fact that from about half of the moves range you can duck it.
However as a 2hit normal the move becomes arguably the best in that class.
It has the farthest range even if you only count the range up to where shotos have to block it while crouching. (farther than Cody’s FHP and Hakan’s crHP which are the next 2 farthest 2hit normals)
It has the 2nd fastest startup of any far range 2hit normal (e.g. not counting moves like Abel’s clsHP or Chun’s clsMK but it’s 1F slower than Akuma’s far HK)
It now is safer on block than it was in AE2012 and is one of the safest 2hit normals in the game at -2F
I could be mistaken but it and Hakan’s crHP are the only 2hit normals that consistently get both hits at max range. Cody’s often only gets the last hit at max range but it’s PRETTY consistent. Hakan it’s very hard to NOT get both hits but his crHP is bad due to being so negative on hit/block and 13F startup.
Again, I’m not saying it needs to be changed at all. However I think not only is there a bit of a perspective issue in terms of comparative properties with other similar normals for that situation. But also the fact that really having a 2hit normal doesn’t fix Sim it just weakens one small part of why he loses so badly to some characters but in turn makes him shit on other characters who before were not at an advantage or were in some cases at a disadvantage in the MU.
I think a potentially more useful change for his bad MUs would have been making Yoga Blast QCB instead of Half Circle Back and giving his EX Blast better frame data and a hitbox that goes slightly farther down towards Sim in the front (for shallower jumps like dive kicks aimed at feet) and slightly farther back behind Sim to deal with crossups on wakeup. Something like 5F startup 17F active 22F recovery with invincible 1-6F and does 90*70 damage. They could even remove the hard knockdown if they increased the distance the attack knocks the opponent away so that Sim regains some ground. The move is flagged not to hit grounded opponents so he’d still be susceptible to grounded pressure but he could also use it vs ambiguous crossups on wakeup potentially but if it whiffs he’d be wide open.
That gives him options vs characters who can full screen jump in or dive kick past limbs ect.
Dhalsim’s worst matchups only a couple of them does fixing focus carry nearly as much weight as a strong anti dive kick move would have.
Hakan - helped a fair bit by the 2hit sMK as focus dashing is pretty heavily used by Hakan. However 1 read with EX Slide could end the match still even with 2hit sMK
Makoto - Probably the match 2hit sMK helps the most. A big part of Makoto’s strength in the MU is being able to not only focus dash a limb safely due to fast recovery on dash but she also gains more ground than most and gets a ton for when she is in your face. However she still has the option to trade a limb with a HK Axe kick for a knockdown as well as the fact it changes her jump arc. She still has the ability to buffer crMP or sMP into EX Hayate to get in from a full screen counter poke.
Yun - sMK helps but he still has dive kicks and sMP - Lunge which are just as bad
Akuma - was focus dash ever really the problem in this MU? I thought it was things like EX DF, D+MK dive kick, air fireball, and 3 hit fireball as well as fast walk speeds on top of the focus dash.
Cammy - dive kick, EX Spiral Arrow and walk speed far more of a problem than focus.
Seth - Wall jump, Tanden Engine, dive kick, all far more important than focus dash.
Viper - do vipers even use focus dash much in this MU? Pretty sure the problem is more lol fuck zoning SUPER JUMP BITCHES! EAT MY BOOT EXHAUST!
Abel - sMK 2 hit could certainly help in this one since he does focus dash a fair bit but 2 hit sMK doesn’t stop Abel from just rolling in with proper timing.
Ibuki - More an issue of EX Neck Breaker and catching alimb with Raida as well as super jumping over zoning.
Adon - Axe kick is probably equally important as focus dash, plus Adon has the walk speed to simply walk sim down instead of focusing if he wanted to. Plus EX Wall dive on reaction to a fireball throw gets Adon in right away. Even Guile has trouble with this MU sometimes.
Those are the bigger ones AFAIK and I’d say only what… half of them are the sMK change as useful as a good anti dive kick / ambiguous crossup tool could have been?
I think Dhalsim would be a much stronger character if they buffed his Yoga blast or if they gave him a fast anti air normal with a good up forward hitbox to help fight against divekicks.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
Decrease lp Yoga Blast startup by 2F, and make him invincible from the stomach up until 1F after startup.
This would make him soooo much better against a lot of his troubled matchups, while keeping him from shitting on most of the cast.
I liked watching that fei get all those CH’s against guile. Maybe counter hitting booms will be a good nerf trade for that stupid ultra buff. (At least is can still be safe jumped I guess?)
TKD says he thinks Cammy and Yun are really strong so far in USF4, looks like it’s going to be more Ultra Swag Fighter 4 BasedGod Edition instead of Ultra ResidentSleeper Fighter 4. Thank you Based TKD!
The boom CH state is a really good thing for Rose or Ibuki : Slide CH > guaranteed combo.
Even better with Chun : Hazanshu CH > ultra 1, woot ! On paper it sounds great but we’ll see.
Yes, you can safe jump Guile.
Wao mentioned that delayed wakeup should have a penalty so it isn’t abused and doesn’t make the game slower paced. I completely agree. Make it like SFxT wake-up rolls where you can only block and tech throws on certain frames.
It’s only 11 frames more…6 hard knockdowns is a tad more than a second. And that is only if they do delay wake up every time. You can hardly use it as a timer scam…
well it depend if you guess right, if he DWU or not, and this is assuming setups will be found to DWU,if you can react to “technical” message, if your character can whiff a move that will compensate for 11f … 5f ultra autocorrect after flash animation wasnt enough i guess
and thats what peoples dont understand … games pace/dynamic =/= real time
the fact the you dont know what your opponent will do at wake up will restrain your offensiveness , if you dont do anything but wait ( wich is the case in most match if you watch USF4 arcade streams ) its not just 11f or a second losts, but rather plenty of phases of nothing happening , add all that in a round and you have a very slowed down matchs , random whiff punish that leads to nothing but resets, same for throws/sweep …
losers mechanic
It’s because for the last 5 Years we’ve already been conditioning ourselves and training ourselves with knockdown set ups we know vs now we really have to relearn everything again. Soft knockdowns you can vary your wake up timing as well and even in more advance levels you can vary it even further by doing delayed quick rise, but after years of practice and technology this isn’t a big deal.
It’s like second week in Usf4 Japan money is on the line for every game you play (arcade culture). Since most players with exception to that one ibuki player we saw don’t have a solution to beat delayed wakeup it’s only natural you stall and wait a bit to see what’s up and learn the timing. Over time this won’t be the case especially for rush down orientated characters. This dwu will only make the game more interesting instead of mindless recycled setups. There will be a deeper mind game involved.
Couldn’t have said it better
I don’t have a problem with delayed wakeup, I have a problem with no penalty for using it. I’m a footsie player anyway, I don’t know many knockdown setups other than the basics. I’ll have no problem adjusting. I can’t wait for all the people who love DWU now but when the game’s meta starts to show it’s true form, they’ll be bitching for it to be removed.
…
So yeah I heard capcom is building an arcade machine that will slap your hand every time you do a dwu.
one of the biggest flaws in sf4 is the advantage generated by hard knockdown. if dwu is put in place as a way to fight that and it does its job in some way, no matter how flawed it is implemented, then it was a benefit to sf4.