Ultra Street Fighter 4 | General Lounge

[a_toolkit]

Was playing at the arcade in Osaka this morning with Boxer. Let go of a TAP at the same time Elena randomed a U1. U1 missed and she got slammed.

Sorry, not very valuable information, but it was pretty funny.

Also, is SRK gonna wait until USF4 hits consoles before they make a proper forum for it?

[LoyalSol]

Nope you can actually do quite a bit. Don’t forget about the fact that absorbing an attack freezes the opponent in place longer than it freezes you as well as the fact spire has a bunch of active frames. Point blank LP Spire you can actually get a level 2 focus crumple even if you don’t start the focus until almost right before you get hit. You can also do focus absorb - dash forward - punish vs many ranges of condor spire with characters who have fast punishes. I can do focus absorb - dash - crLP with Ryu even from a nearly perfectly spaced LP Spire.

Even before the armor freeze time the LP Spire hitting on the first frame has to go through 8F more active frames +4F airborne recover +7F grounded. That is 19F right there. Even hitting on the last frame is 12F which is enough to release a focus attack and have it hit even if you didn’t get extra frames from the focus absorb.

They didn’t reduce the recovery or active frames on Spire AFAIK all that was changed was startup and then LP got 3F more hitstun (it’s obviously more hitstun rather than faster recovery because they only changed the hit advantage not the block advantage which would have changed if they altered the recovery or active frames.)

Except if you think about where Hawk will do the spire (canceling it off c.MK for instance.) You won’t be able to start charging till part way into the active frames. That’s what I’m getting at.

Sure if T-Hawk does it raw you can or point blank (But come on, Hawk isn’t going to do a move that is -7 on block if you hit on the first active frame in your face), but think about how he’s going to do it in the update. The block stun off c.MK is around 14 frames based on my calculations which means you won’t be able to start charging until 3-4 frames into the active frames. Meaning that leaves only about 5 active frames and 11 recovery frames. 16 frames isn’t enough time to fully charge the focus from zero and let it fly.

And this is under ideal conditions, in a real match you might be a frame or two late on the focus.

Odds are you would be just releasing the focus at lvl 1 and back dashing. Which isn’t really enough to make Hawk stop doing it. Especially since the EX version armor breaks so you have to always be careful of him doing that version. You’d be better off DPing in the middle of the string or something like that.

Edit: Let me use an example from another character. Yun’s LP Shoulder has worse frames in the same situation as Hawk’s new spire. You can’t charge a focus in between up to lvl 2 in time to punish the shoulder if Yun cancels into it from s.MP. In Yun’s case his recovery is bad enough you can dash forward after absorbing the hit and be at frame advantage, but in Hawk’s case the recovery is not slow enough that you’ll be dashing into an SPD.

While it’s riskier you will be at frame advantage even from near max range LP Spire. IIRC armor freeze is 4F (I could be off slightly). crMK is 4F active 12F recovery -2F on block but you have to also consider that it has to hit for 1F so you subtract 1F more. That is 13F. Also you have to consider the distance factor. THawk’s crMK cancel position moves him back slightly while Yun’s moves him forward.

Also Yun is a different character, true the situation is the same but one of the reasons you see people focus shoulder less often is because he has other threats from sMP and the walk speed and other normals to decide to simply NOT cancel it. THawk doesn’t have the walk speed Yun does, or the option of canceling crMK to DP (because it whiffs unless point blank) or a safe option like Yun’s EX Lunge punch to break armor.

Also in the video example given earlier you saw a lot of the spires done from sLP as well as just done raw. Those ones could be focused even easier than crMK.

Here is a modified THawk with a spire matching USF4 version (11F startup +3F hitstun, input done with DP + Kick instead of reverse DP + Punch. crMK special cancelable)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9dhtGSzME

Now if the crMK - spire is done from farther out than shown in the video, not only does it have a much larger gap (meaning if you had started charging the focus right after the crMK you’d have reached level 2 in time to punish if only barely.) but it also means it’s easier to throw out an attack like a crHP or DP or possibly try and low profile the spire (distance/character dependent obviously)

There are a lot of options depending on the situation, including using focus attacks and focus dashes.

When I was testing it you were negative if you focus dash late into the active frames. So if it is well spaced you can’t punish it like that. Focusing seems like a bad idea.

[Trouble_Brewing]

.

Also, is SRK gonna wait until USF4 hits consoles before they make a proper forum for it?

I doubt we’ll make a new forum. There is already one dead SF4 forum to confuse noobs with.

[Mr.PaVy-RD]

Lol @ rolento being able to Jab xx Ultra

[Essenthy]

Lol @ rolento being able to Jab xx Ultra

isnt it heavily reduced damage wise anyway ?

[ilitirit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VObgjKoljbo

[Noocta]

Lol @ rolento being able to Jab xx Ultra

Most characters with very strong jab can do this already ( Yang, Boxer, probably a few other )

[Eternal]

Nope you can actually do quite a bit. Don’t forget about the fact that absorbing an attack freezes the opponent in place longer than it freezes you as well as the fact spire has a bunch of active frames. Point blank LP Spire you can actually get a level 2 focus crumple even if you don’t start the focus until almost right before you get hit. You can also do focus absorb - dash forward - punish vs many ranges of condor spire with characters who have fast punishes. I can do focus absorb - dash - crLP with Ryu even from a nearly perfectly spaced LP Spire.

Even before the armor freeze time the LP Spire hitting on the first frame has to go through 8F more active frames +4F airborne recover +7F grounded. That is 19F right there. Even hitting on the last frame is 12F which is enough to release a focus attack and have it hit even if you didn’t get extra frames from the focus absorb.

They didn’t reduce the recovery or active frames on Spire AFAIK all that was changed was startup and then LP got 3F more hitstun (it’s obviously more hitstun rather than faster recovery because they only changed the hit advantage not the block advantage which would have changed if they altered the recovery or active frames.)

Except if you think about where Hawk will do the spire (canceling it off c.MK for instance.) You won’t be able to start charging till part way into the active frames. That’s what I’m getting at.

Sure if T-Hawk does it raw you can or point blank (But come on, Hawk isn’t going to do a move that is -7 on block if you hit on the first active frame in your face), but think about how he’s going to do it in the update. The block stun off c.MK is around 14 frames based on my calculations which means you won’t be able to start charging until 3-4 frames into the active frames. Meaning that leaves only about 5 active frames and 11 recovery frames. 16 frames isn’t enough time to fully charge the focus from zero and let it fly.

And this is under ideal conditions, in a real match you might be a frame or two late on the focus.

Odds are you would be just releasing the focus at lvl 1 and back dashing. Which isn’t really enough to make Hawk stop doing it. Especially since the EX version armor breaks so you have to always be careful of him doing that version. You’d be better off DPing in the middle of the string or something like that.

Edit: Let me use an example from another character. Yun’s LP Shoulder has worse frames in the same situation as Hawk’s new spire. You can’t charge a focus in between up to lvl 2 in time to punish the shoulder if Yun cancels into it from s.MP. In Yun’s case his recovery is bad enough you can dash forward after absorbing the hit and be at frame advantage, but in Hawk’s case the recovery is not slow enough that you’ll be dashing into an SPD.

While it’s riskier you will be at frame advantage even from near max range LP Spire. IIRC armor freeze is 4F (I could be off slightly). crMK is 4F active 12F recovery -2F on block but you have to also consider that it has to hit for 1F so you subtract 1F more. That is 13F. Also you have to consider the distance factor. THawk’s crMK cancel position moves him back slightly while Yun’s moves him forward.

Also Yun is a different character, true the situation is the same but one of the reasons you see people focus shoulder less often is because he has other threats from sMP and the walk speed and other normals to decide to simply NOT cancel it. THawk doesn’t have the walk speed Yun does, or the option of canceling crMK to DP (because it whiffs unless point blank) or a safe option like Yun’s EX Lunge punch to break armor.

Also in the video example given earlier you saw a lot of the spires done from sLP as well as just done raw. Those ones could be focused even easier than crMK.

Here is a modified THawk with a spire matching USF4 version (11F startup +3F hitstun, input done with DP + Kick instead of reverse DP + Punch. crMK special cancelable)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9dhtGSzME

Now if the crMK - spire is done from farther out than shown in the video, not only does it have a much larger gap (meaning if you had started charging the focus right after the crMK you’d have reached level 2 in time to punish if only barely.) but it also means it’s easier to throw out an attack like a crHP or DP or possibly try and low profile the spire (distance/character dependent obviously)

There are a lot of options depending on the situation, including using focus attacks and focus dashes.

When I was testing it you were negative if you focus dash late into the active frames. So if it is well spaced you can’t punish it like that. Focusing seems like a bad idea.

Then either your testing was flawed OR this is a PC only thing (this is very much possible. note: It’s recently been noticed that Guy’s EX Tatsu is 6F startup on PC not 4F). I was able to punish with dash forward - DP punish a spire that hits on the absolute last active frame. I tried both manually timing as well as changing it so that LP Spire hit only has 1F active which occurs on the last frame it’s normally active (basically making the move have an additional 8F of startup) still able to focus - dash - DP punish but it’s strict timing.

I think I may have found the key to this whole argument. Turns out the wiki has a mistake that I’ll talk to shodan about remedying (been working with him a bunch recently on stuff regarding the wiki).

Turns out that the wiki only lists THawk’s recovery for on whiff. However (at least on PC) there is a 10F longer recovery time on hit/block than there is on whiff. Having 17F landing + 4F airborne recovery +1frame for hitting last active frame = 22F total. Ryu’s dash forward (18F) - DP (3F) = 21F should punish even on last frame with frame perfect timing.

[Doopliss]

Lol @ rolento being able to Jab xx Ultra

Where can I see that?

[m0mo]

Lol @ rolento being able to Jab xx Ultra

Where can I see that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCm1jFokqBM#t=3662

~1:03:06

To be fair it did a lot of damage, even with those jabs in there. That ultra is pretty damn good i have to say, full screen punishes and combo’s like these sound pretty good.

[Doopliss]

Thanks. I’m glad that works, the ultra is too cool to not be used. I doubt it works from max range though, based on how the ultra functions.

[Eternal]

Hmmm I wonder what his jab is on hit then. I’m guessing +7 but might be +8. In SFxT his close LP was +9 and far was +6

Still can’t believe his crMP is +6 on BLOCK (at least it was at Capcom Cup, and that is AFTER nerfing it from +7F on block) even in SFxT it’s only +5F on block and that game is known for having a bit more advantage to make up for usually slower startups. If it really is +6F on block it is the most advantaged on block ground normal in the entire game. Rufus IA Dive kick is +7, Gen Mantis sMP is +5, Balrog far LP is +5, El Fuerte far HP is +5. Nobody has a +6 on block normal as far as I can see, and there are only three +5 normals. Almost everyone caps out at +4F on block unless they go for meaties.

Combos I’m curious about:

any jab - sweep
any jab - crMP
crMP - sweep
crHP - crMK
far HP 2nd hit is a counterhit (like from an armor break) - anything?
Jumping MP - Ultra 1

[Mr.PaVy-RD]

If Rolento Can jab Ultra then i wonder if he can still do Close HK into Ultra and Far HK into Ultra not sure if they removed it yet since people complained that it was too good

Honestly im starting to really like rolento he has great pokes/focus/AA/Ultras he seems like a more aggressive ibuki and fei long

[Doopliss]

xx

xx means cancel ;_; /terminologyOCD

[Mr.PaVy-RD]

Doopliss pls T_T

[Muttonman]

If Rolento can Jab into U2, I’m not sure why anyone would run U1; that’s absolutely ridiculous.

[m0mo]

If Rolento can Jab into U2, I’m not sure why anyone would run U1; that’s absolutely ridiculous.

Well you can combo into u1 from ex reka aswell as ex roll (or whatever that thing is called). While it requires more meter these options are more footsie based as you can’t realy combro into jab from far a way or from a counter poke. I still think u2 is better in most matchups though.

[Essenthy]

can i have my hadouken/ultra follow peoples if they jump please ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vYiPkXS8U3A

[HNIC_Mike]

Why are people shocked. The 5f and tracking was known months ago.

I guess most people didn’t realize what they meant by tracks opponent.

[Takamura13]

meaty c.lk on guile’s wakeup nope u1

crossup on guiles wakeup nope u1

even when you get in you wont be able to do shit now