Crane j.HK got a bigger hurtbox downwards, so most likely it’ll not affect air-to-air situations, not to mention Mantis jump goes higher so it won’t whiff against characters like say, Chun-Li. I could never air-to-air Crane j.HK that character because Gen’s crane jump was too low.
Of course, this is assuming that the air “stance change” is staying.
Hopefully I can go to EVO this year for the new rolling Gen.
BTW, depending on the hitbox buff of Mantis U2, it might be a really useful raw Ultra against fireballs almost mid-screen away. If you can land the hit afterwards that is.
If wake-up parry will be as easy as I think it would be Gen won’t drop all the way to the bottom. In fact, he might get an advantage against Cammy even (a BIG “might”).
I do understand what you’re saying since they nerfed Gen overall, but we might find something we do not know when the game actually comes out.
The thing is… i’m not 100% sure the super will be used as much as before the changes
First off, the damage got nerfed.
Then, there might be more reasons to use ex bars because of the new combo potential due to things like…
new possibilities to roll FADC thanks to crane cLP, while being in crane for a more defensive style in a life lead
EX hands to mantis U2… if you land a hard punish ending with that, the opponent is probably about to get stunned if you get him on wakeup
possible new combos requiring FADC thanks to the reduced pushback after hands
Still in gen’s arsenal.
ex gekiro, the only reliable reversal and anti air option. most people don’t even think about it but if you land four aa ex gekiros you might even deal more damage than the super + follow up. Besides playing more solid in defence.
usual cMP xx Hands FADC combos, which are useful more than often and deal good damage out of a single poke
I don’t know if with the new red focus and revenge meter growing faster you might find yourself in the position to land EX hands > mantis U2 > stun more than one time in a single round.
Btw there was also the stun change in mantis sHP which will boost gen’s stun potential using TC2 in combos.
Of course this is just theory, but i don’t think the “just wait for the super” strategy is going to be predominant anymore.
A new strategy could be to go for stun (at which gen have always sucked so much ass) without having to worry too much on using ex bars for fadc or anti air.
I don’t know. we’ll see.
The thing that bothers me the most is still the FA nerf range. This really got on my nerves.
Other than that i see new possibilities and like quite a lot the idea of the ultra > stun and free combo option.
Other characters have stun ultras like honda and balrog, they deal more stun but gen’s sould be way easier to land.
Was the problem with the stance changing in the air fixed or what? I haven’t seen it in the official reports, i might have missed it.
That would be pretty big to finally be able to buffer the attack without risking to leave empty frames after the jump-in or crossup hit/bockstun ended.
I heard it’s not fixed, even though 3K during Mantis will result in Crane j.HK. We’ll have to see.
RFC damage/stun is prevalent to characters who can land a high stun/damage moves in a series of attacks (ie. Fierce with 200 stun cancel into a special with 150-200 stun build for example).
Gen relies on target combo for more damage, which means more scaling, and his RFC-able special in Mantis, which is hands, has crappy damage/stun build. It’s better to not consider roll RFC unless you can land a raw Crane cr.MP into a roll. FADC on the 2nd last hit will most likely do a similar damage for less meter, depending on how much scaling EX RF has.
Speaking of Crane cr.LP, I realized that in Gen balance change video Crane cr.LP recovers faster (you can see this by comparing between the 2 frame by frame; the Ultra Gen has Crane cr.LK hitting Yang while 2012 Gen has cr.LK still on its start-up). I wonder if it is better on block.
I actually don’t like the idea of red focus in combos. I might change my mind but unless something phenomenal comes out i don’t feel like spending 3 bars to land an ultra or anything else considering the damage scaling anyway…
It’s possibly more useful to enhance stun potential, but thats still 3 bars… quite a lot of meter. I don’t know…
I was more into the red focus because of its better potential to charge up the revenge meter for mantis u2.
About crane cLK, i wouldn’t think they changed it. after all i personally think that move most of the times needs to be hitconfirmed. I rarely get my crane cLK blocked unless the landing switch stance glitch gets in my f-ing way.
What makes me the most mad is the nerf to hands and to super. His staple stuff, plus his super is his trademark, so cool. Again, **** Capcom. Yes, I know that it’s possible there are some additional goodies and that some buffs might make a bigger impact than we’d suspect, but this is sounding insanely (literally) bad. Good thing I can troll around with Blanka instead, then. At least he’s not ruined.
Ah, the red focus itself, I see. If stun build for Mantis U2 stays as 450 no matter the revenge meter (just like Denjin; does 400 stun on the 4 hits no matter how much dmg it does), it might lead to some interesting ideas.
I meant Crane cr.LP actually. Crane cr.LK comes out faster in Ultra in the comparison, which leads to the idea that Crane cr.LP recovers faster, rather than giving it more hitstun. I was wondering whether or not cr.LP was better on block since it recovers faster.
-Cr.mp lost 10 damage. The hell, Capcom, Gen is low damage already outside superxxultra.
-Lk Gekiro lost ALL INVINCIBILITY. I don’t even…
+Lp Roll is +3 on hit, and -1 on block (was 0 on block and unchanged on hit in previous builds).
+All Rolls requires much less charge time.
Ok, so Roll buffs are all pretty good. I suppose roll -> hands is a thing now that it’s +3? Also, Gen has a decent tool for chip damage.
With that said, it’s hard to be positive with all those nerfs. Roll is good, ok… but that good to make up for all those nerfs?
Invincibility frames now completely removed from LK gekiro WHAT THE FUCK?!
Like it didn’t suck enough already with the last vulnerable frame during startup
The detail about the focus attack hitbox matching the hurtbox is not clear… is it referring to the ae2012 hurtbox?
Because that still goes way further than gen’s polygonal model in the game and they said they were matching the hitbox to the actual FA animation.
I noticed the final change list does not include the mantis St.hp 150*50 stun, mantis super 250 dmg nerf, and mantis super / crane cr.hp juggle changes. I’m guessing the change list may be incomplete?
Maybe. It was missing Viper’s H.Thunder being -5 on block after fadc, now they added it.
USFIV Gen is frustrating. If big nerfs were all I could see, I’d easily drop the character for good, but he does have some very interesting buffs as well. This is the roll we always asked for.
So it’s probably a bad character that I can’t help but play anyway, at least for a couple of days.
Increased Juggle on Mantis Super means nothing though.
If you’re talking about EX Gekiro being used as a reversal and AA, buddy i gotta tell ya. I already use it.
Things which have been on the mind of Capcom since vanilla was to make Gen spend more meter to compensate for having a super ~ ultra combo.
They’ve done lots of things to try and force this, but the one thing they haven’t / didn’t do was return EX Oga to full invincible.
The only option I can see with +3 on hit for Jyasen is immediate hands ~ super. But it’s not that great. If you’re thinking about new possibilities with FADC. The only new ones are FADC From Jyasen before the last hit, then combo Crane C.Lp Crane.Lp Crane C.Mp Jyasen.
That’s a 1 Frame combo as well =b
He can do 1 more rep of that with another FADC then end with hands.
No new options have been created here, it’s every option he had previous. Except, reducing damage. Increased Hurtboxs, reduced Hitboxs and now requires meter for hard knockdown.
Generally removing the effectiveness of Gen, Also Factor in the rest of the cast now gets Delay wake up, Gen at his best was ambiguous setups off hard knockdown coupled with soft knockdown mixups.
That’s gone.
His damage from his main tools across the board is gone.
RIP, though both Amiyu & Xian are apparently sticking with him.
Although there’s a good chance Xian will go back to Yun or E.Ryu.
LP Jyasen - Mantis sLP will combo on a number of characters. I can confirm you can do (Crane stance) - crLP - crLP - crLP - crMP - LP Jyansen (Switch to mantis) - sLP - crMP - HP Hands as a combo vs Ken at the very minimum. ~300 damage hit confirm combos.
Hahahahaha, how the hell can they insult the Gen community by slaughtering him into joke tier?! And call it a “balance patch”?! Why not just admit that they have made him the worst in the game intentionally. Haha, lk gekiro and cr mp changes … I just don’t know what to say. This is the worst fucking “balance” list ever.
I like how capcom reduced my positivity by including more nerfs instead of buffs in final changelog. Oh well. lol.
He’s still gonna be playable, but worse. Also l. jyasen + 3 on hit? Sure you mash hands you can, um… super? What’s the point of this? Maybe if you are fishing but this looks realy situational. They also reduced invincibility on l. gekiro which makes him even more meter hungry, damn dude. cr. mp nerf not a big deal but annoying.
It could that this doesn’t include everything but this kinda sucks. We’ll see how he plays though.
Getting a countehit on the last hit of LP Roll should be +5F now. CH LP Roll - crMP (Crane) - LP Roll - sLP (mantis) - crMP - Hands combos. You can also just do CH LP Roll - sMP Mantis vs some characters (spacing is an issue with sMP while crMP spacing is not.)