Yeah people actually just dont know how to play viper most of the time. Even after blocked bks, all you gotta do is mash cr. jab against her (if you have a 3f jab). It beats out all her normals, throw and bk and ex seismo… Only thing it loses to is hp.tk but obviously viper cant just dp in these situations all the time.
Will fff combos still work?
Yes. CrFFF is a 4f link and will now be a 3f link, StFFF is a 5f link and will now be a 4f link. The main consequences of her HP TK feint nerf are: 1. Frametrapping after hp.tk cancelled normals will now be slightly worse due to 1f less advantage. 2. Hp TK Feint as wake up against safe jumps will now be beaten not only by 3f option selects, but also by 4f option selects. 3. St. Fierce x Feint -> Cr. HK will no longer be possible (was a 1f link). 4. You will now have a 1f smaller window for punishing moves of your opponent you invincibled through by Hp TK feinting.
Does the feint nerf still allow to dodge the cross up tatsu and punish ?
Seeing how air tatsus have 10 frames of recovery after landing, im pretty sure 1f less of punish window should not make much of a difference. Im not completely sure what the maximum punish was before (like was fff possible?) but you should at the very least be able to dodge and throw or cr.mpxmp.tk.
friend had a good suggestion, why not make bk throw invinc just not instant air
Because it would still suck? They didnt touch bk anyway so thank god we dont have to put up with being punished with full combos for a light bk attempt.
I just realised that FFF mp tk FADC, st.lp, st.mp, cr.mp SJC U1 is prolly going to be a thing in ultra. damn i’m excited.
Too bad the damage will be less than FFF xx ex seismo fadc ultra. May be useful for stun situations by ending with MP TK.
Final changes:
Looks fine. Viper will still be good. DWU is annoying but the new combos possibilities make up for it imo.
All delayed wakeup means is 2x the safe jump timings and 2x the unblockables. The input for delayed wakeup must be input when you would normally “tech” the ground and a little message will pop up, letting us Viper players know to use an alternate timing. With Viper’s hard knockdowns, the opponent hits the ground way before we have to commit to any timing moves (such as dash), and so we have plenty of time to recognize and use an alternate timing. Forward throw, back throw, c.HK, Super, and U1 all give us a lot of time to see if they delayed wakeup.
Delayed wakeup delays “rising from a down state” by 11 frames. (or so they say, inb4 character variance in delayed wakeup coughBlankacough) Techincally, all we have to do is tack on another 11 frames and we should get a successful safe jump / unblockable. (not that we have a move with 11 total frames) But for stuff like dash > jump > unblockable, we just need to figure out new timings. Dash is 19f + delayed wakeup is 11f = 30f. So we would need to whiff 30f worth of normals. (not that we have a move with 30 total frames) But we do have c.LP that is 15f total. So in theory, U1 > c.LP x2 > j.HK should produce the same unblockable that dash > j.HK does.
It sure is annoying to type out. I like DW or DWU. Can we all agree that is the short term for it pls?
I typed it DWU for a long time, but DW is fine by me.
Are you sure the message is showned when they hit the ground and not when they raise ? Seems counter productive as a mechanic if we can adapt to it like that.
“When Delayed Standing is inputted, a “Technical” message is shown”
Or so it says on the final change log on the front page. Hopefully they actually mean “inputted” instead of “applied”.
so viper combos?
(normals) xx M thunder knuckle fadc cl.LK (1 frame link) sorry, edited: st LP or cr LP ->
-normals into M thunder knuckle
-normals into sjc ultra 1
-can it go into ultra 2?
(normals) xx M thunder knuckle red focus crumple dash - cl.HP feint cr.HP ->
-thunder knuckle
-ex seismo, burn kick, ultra 1 or HP thunder knuckle
-ex seismo, sj fadc, ultra 1
-sjc ultra 1? sjc ultra 2???
post red focus crumple dash-
what’s the numbers on L seismo, burn kick, ultra 1/HP thunder knuckle?
Forum decided to eat my post…
Fierce feint will be 11 frames with the nerf so there will be a way to time setups without resorting to manually delaying.
You won’t be able to do cl.LK from mp.TK FADC since it’s 5 frames, you can do st.LP (will whiff on standing against most characters, but enough time to confirm it) and cr.LP. mp.TK FADC st.LP st.MP will be two unplinkable (if they remove select plink like they said) one-frame links since st.LP chains into both LP and LK. I don’t think it will be worth it over other meter usages either way, except possibly when the follow-up mixup will stun, assuming we’ll be able to do the links consistently (and count the stun).
FFF red focus FFF mp.TK will do 451 damage and 890 stun. Red focus from cr.MK mp.TK into FFF mp.TK will do 382 damage and 705 stun. CH mp.TK cr.MP mp.TK RF FFF mp.TK 458 damage 840 stun, so I can imagine some ridiculous abare robs happening from that.
I made a combo video a few weeks ago from the PC mod, everything here should work in the arcade version assuming they didn’t change the range of cr.MK since the Dreamhack build (from watching the Kindevu vs Momochi videos it sure doesn’t look like it!), or if there are some other hidden changes.
i’ll probably be pretty lazy.
cr MK xx M thunder knuckle RF ->
fierce sjc ultra
or L seismo fadc ultra 1
or corner L seismo sjc Burn kick ultra1
From the video, it looks like she’s become a lot more aggressive with more combo potential. Is this true? I thought her changes were subtle, but this seems different. I didn’t even know you could FFF +F into cr. Mk to begin with.
Honestly, this made me laugh
inb4 accidental super during normal xx feint pressure…
Was super motion changed?