So, we’ve all heard the potential changes for Viper. If not, link is here: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jul/24/dhalsim-receive-damage-increase-better-hit-box-c-vipers-crouching-medium-kick-and-more-potential-ultra-street-fighter-4-changes/
• C. Viper’s crouching Medium Kick has better hit box.
• Burn Kick has increased recovery.
• If hit during start up of Burn Kick, C. Viper is considered grounded and is open to full combo.
I think the bk nerf sucks. Maybe it won’t be super drastic, but I hate that they’re thinking about changing that but not changing HP TK. The reason why HP TK isn’t a reliable reversal sometimes is it loses to low profile moves. Hope they increase the hitbox on it.
as I already said, bk startup being grounded kills the character. Now there is literally nothing you can do closeup against somebody mashin crouch tech, except hp tk which obviously isnt the best option even if it would hit the entire casts cr. lks. If they nerf bk recoverey regardless of whiff or block, the move is completely useless now. As it is, you are at a slight advantage if they blocked bk crouching or at a slight disadvantage if they blocked bk standing. The problem is, vipers normals have horrendous startup. Even now you cant do shit against chars with 3 frame lights after a blocked bk, even if they crouched. Try poking against a rog that just mashes jab after he blocks bk, you gonna get counterhit all day, he recovers in time to block ex seismo and he jabs bk that is airborne instantly outta the air… Why should I use a burnkick in the future trying to circumvent low mid range pokes and get in close when basically those pokes can now shut down bk on startup AND I put myself at a disadvantageous position if they block it and Im now up close with horrible normals, slow startup reversals and a bk that cant even beat crouch tech or throws anymore??
also inb4 increased recovery means blocked bk will now actually be -3 on block so the move is effectively taken out of the game outside combos
The c. Medium kick hitbox change is more of a fix then a buff, but it’s such a good change you might as well call it a buff. Haha’ I mean we seriously could of done without it but our crying at capcom unity payed off guys and girls, so… (+1)
" If hit during the start up of burnkick, viper is now considered grounded and open to a full combo." Not as bad as it seems… It’s not like viper will be the only one who can’t deal with crouch tech mashers(lol the guy above) and they did this so viper players won’t mash burnkicks, seems fair. Just be slightly more cautious when you throw out burn kicks, problem solved (- .5)
Increased recovery on burn kick
I’m sure the burn kick recovery will only be SLIGHTLY increased. So just like Yun who can’t just dive kick whenever he wants anymore without risking getting focused crumpled, Viper will have to be more cautious as well. Be unpredictable with your burn kicks, and make sure to be as accurate/solid as possible so you don’t whiff. This is definitely a nerf and there might be a
few other negatives to it, but remember these changes aren’t final. Let’s say they we’re, we will find away around it. (-1)
Vipers like what, A-/B+ as of now? Considering the top tier’s are getting slightly nerfed, Viper will be fine. Everyone C and D tier is getting buffed, let them finally enjoy it . Viper has always been on top for awhile and you know it ( did not play vanilla or Super, but AE/AE12 for sure) now it will finally be fair game.
Overall: (- .5)
What are you talkin about man? cr.mk fix is ok at best, considering nothing combos off it from max range already, this isnt as big as it may seem. And Viper hasnt been on top since super. Actually Id argue she has never been on top, only that people didnt know how to play against her, and many scrubs still dont. Viper is one of those chars that gets worse over time even without nerfs, just because she relies somewhat on ppl not knowing how to play her. Viper was no top tier to begin with and had tons of hard matchups against the current mid tiers (mostly chargers). Now those mid tiers gonna get buffed and viper is gonna get nerfed. Face it, shes gonna be done.
Honestly I didnt have a problem with vipers burn kick recovering fast the only thing i didnt like is how you guys can stun a character so quick
BK being grounded is a big nerf. Viper can’t abare her way out of pressure because her crouch tech is 5f. If you want the easier hit-confirm ability of cr.lk then you’re at a huge disadvantage against grapplers and shotos because it’s -3f on block.
I’ve read that seismo is going to be non-throwable again, but unless the invinciblity frames are going to be extended for the whole of the move’s startup, she’s still going to lose to stuff like Ken’s cr.lp step kick.
Latif said on his YT channel that he doesnt care about the BK nerf since it doesnt apply to instant BK’s. Can anyone confirm this? If Latif doesnt mind the nerf then I certainly wont.
I don’t think the nerf will hurt her all that much. She just can’t mash out reckless BKs.
As if the hurtbox on BK wasn’t retarded enough. Now, not only can you stuff it by simply sticking out a crouching Normal at that open area of NOTHINGNESS beneath her during startup --when she’s damn near on her way over your head-- but you get to convert that into a full combo for your convenience.
Aren’t we generous?
apparently this was only a rumor and according to location tests nobody actually found that this change actually took place. Either that or capcom listened to our protests and reversed the changes. Conversely nobody really noticed her cr.mk even making a difference from the ‘fix’ so that may be a little worrying.
i think i saw one match on the armhouse stream where a viper player was able to hit a crouch blocking fuerte at the tip of her feet but it might be my eyes playing tricks on me and armhouse doesnt archive their streams.
i want to say it was like (all blocked) jump in fierce, stand fierce seismo feint, cr.mk?
stand fierce or cr. fierce
I was at the loc test at Dreamhack and the cr.mk hitbox is buffed by a pretty noticeable amount. Found the damage increase on cl.hp unnecessary, and I’m not a fan of the feint change at all, considering they didn’t compensate by increasing blockstun. It seems pretty random. Mostly the changes are very good though, and we can punish EX headbutt with ultra or cr.mk xx mp.tk on block anywhere on the screen. Didn’t notice any changes in startup or recovery of anything, it might be there though. Didn’t get to test as much stuff as I wanted as the loc test setups were closed throughout the tournament. The burnkick change fortunately did not make it in, it seems exactly the same as now.
The BK change didnt make it in? Wow this is like the first good news for Viper in Ultra ^^
Ever since the buff to her cr.MK hitbox was announced, I’ve been wondering if this will lead to new combo opportunities.
On some characters already, Viper can perform a FFF into cr.MK and MP.TK
I’ve even managed to pull this off against Cammy, although the timing is ridiculous rendering it impractical.
If anyone else gets their hands on the location test I’d appreciate if you could attempt that combo on whatever members of the cast you can.
It might be possible get the c.MK to link after FFF with a hitbox buff. Unless the hitstun on c.MK changes, I really don’t see the MP TK combo-ing.
Even though the annotations don’t say so, you have to walk slightly forward after the first feint.
FFF, c.MK xx MP TK works on Zangief and Blanka though.
FFF cr.mk xx mp.tk did not work against any new characters from what we got to try, the cr.mk still whiffs against the majority of the cast. Obviously just tried against a few characters, it might work on some new ones. We’ll have to see when it comes out or on the next loc test. With the walk forward I’d think it would work against more.
Could that be what the strange 1F-delay change to her FTK Feint was about? To hamper the walk-up between hits?
Thanks for trying that out.
Kind of shame that it doesn’t work, but yeh I suppose there’s still some possibility there.
what I would really want to see is if (counter-hit)cs.mp, cr.hp hptk feint, cr.mk xx mptk would work after mk hitbox buff in ultra.