“oh man, i love a good fight!”
I could care less what CH is on block if I can’t get +3 out of it. +2, -4, or -32 it doesn’t matter. It won’t affect how I use the move at all. I have no intention for the move to be blocked. If I use it, its to get a hit or to whiff. Been that way since they nerfed it from super.
You can keep trying to antagonize me all you want, but the cold hard truth of the matter is that I am completely content with the current version of Vega in this build. They’ve fixed 2 out of 3 of Vega’s biggest weaknesses. That’s all I wanted. In addition, we got some nice bonuses. If that’s not enough for you… well that’s your problem not mine. I’ll be glad to mention changes you guys may want to whoever is there, but I’m not going to waste my time nor Peter’s time on some half assed token proposal. There are other loketests and other Vega players I’m sure you can find to do that for ya.
I’m the only Vega player I need to test anything.
Also, I’m not trying to antagonize you. I’m confronting you with reality.
As far as you go outside not being able to articulate or comprehend your own native language and your blatant disregard of logic, you’re a polite and pleasant fellow and god damnit that’s something. I like you!
Thats how you use it. Thats not how all the other Vega players play, nor how they should play.
I think that are only two Vegas in the world that are relatively active in tournaments and trully deserve the “Top Claw player” status.
One of them is Reiketsu, the guy use CH in the offensive pretty well. He does because there are times that using CH is clearly is worth the risk.
Do you know that couter hit CH EX ST its 300 dmg? If you absolutely never try that, then its obvious that your Vega really lacks offensive options. Sure, its not a move to throw it like there is no tomorrow, but you have to let your opponent know that you are willing to do it. If you don’t… how you will keep your opponent from teching the kara throws? Trying to guess when/how/if he is going to tech… its not easy. Our jab has no frame advantage, there is no way that we will jab - walk - jab again like Sakura, Boxer, etc. The moves that have good frame advantage have way too much pushback, so we can’t pressure for long, it goes like 2~3 pokes and thats it. The guy is out of harm.
CH being -2 or -3 point blank is everything in the world.
When its -3 you get punished by every character in the entire cast. When its -2 that number falls from 39 to around 3. In all the other cases you are free to backdash or block.
The reality is that as long as you come up with some bullshit excuse for buffing CH… it ain’t gonna happen. Why? Because Capcom’s bullshit excuse for nerfing it has obviously been more influential. it seems to me that Capcom, by their actions, are pretty adamant that a SSF4 version of CH ain’t coming back and apparently 2012 version was too much as well. Like it or not they’ve likely made their decision about how good it can be at most. This being even with CH getting buffed from 2012 version being one of the most requested items for Ultra. So what makes you think that asking for it and hoping for the best is going to be heard any differently than it has for the last 3 years? They nerfed it for a reason. Yeah iono what that reason is but if you don’t find a way to invalidate whatever reason that was that caused them to nerf it to begin with its a waste of time. I made an assumption of what that reason was (ppl bitching about overuse/spamming). Seems likely. If you can think of another more likely let’s hear it.
So instead, I prefer to try to improve other things that Capcom is less likely to be adamant against. If you wanna keep on fucking that chicken, be my guest. I’ll be happy to take a picture and deliver it to Peter for ya. But I ain’t fucking that chicken with ya.
See there you go being a presumtious asshat again. It’s not worth it to have a debate with someone who neither understands what I say nor can avoid putting words in my mouth.
You and Peter can get down with whatever farm animals you want but that’s really none of my business, bro.
Edit: Enough of this. I literally cannot comprehend how you can infer the ridiculous things you do. Like taking “be transparent about what Vega needs” and instead reading “beg for stupid buffs.”
Have fun at the location test.
maybe vegaman could ask peter why they nerfed it? better have a damn good explanation. it’s weird how it’s been nerfed over the past few updates
It’s not even really nerfed per say. The changes ARE ass backwards, though.
It may be better for what it’s suited for, which was detailed above, but I still don’t want to see it -3 or greater and even disregarding that it’s still just plain dumb data to tack onto it on block.
This reminds me, it is really frustrating how much pushback cr.forward has. It’s way too much, you can’t combo it into ST with neg edge since the pushback causes it to whiff even though the hit box goes through the character if they’re standing, only roundhouse works. I do not understand this. It would also be nice if cr.forward could combo into itself, but it seems to have too much recovery to do so.
I also don’t have a problem with EX FBA’s knee launcher not hitting a crouching opponent. It hits a crouching opponent up to about 85% of the screen, anything more and he flies right over their heads. That makes sense, nothing touches them so why should it hit? The max distance is about his front heel being right over the R in SUPER when he’s standing, and that’s really more than enough screen space. Perhaps what would be ideal, is if you could use short and forward for the EX to have him fly to the wall lower, which would then have no problem hitting a crouching opponent at full screen. But… I don’t see why the hit box would need to be changed on the knee.
[quote=“Moonchilde, post:109, topic:165679”]
Try against them crouching in the corner. lol, crMK crMP alone alreay make EX FBA whiff o Chun, Rose, Cammy, etc.
Vegaman, if you follow that logic, than any request to buff Vega is useless. Because Capcom is clearly adamant regarding buffing him. Then lets all stay home and period.
But you can hope. So a change in something that has been tweaked every damn version is more likely to be taken seriously than something that was never touched since 2008.
EDIT: I don’t know whats happening to those quotation box, its buggy here, sorry guys.
I coulda swore counter hit set ups were meant to… you know… hit the opponent. The entire point is to entice the opponent into pressing a button (I.e. not blocking). I think I made it pretty clear that if I use CH its intended to hit the opponent. I musta left that out somewhere sorry.
The fact that its not punished if its blocked doesn’t change the fact that it was a mistake on my part for making a bad read… either by misjudging distance or because the opponent didn’t press a button. I never intend for the move to be blocked. That’s just my personal view. It doesn’t mean I never use the move. I just don’t have it as a crutch unlike most Vega players that do rely on it.
Oh you mean like taking “So what makes you think that asking for it and hoping for the best is going to be heard any differently than it has for the last 3 years?” and reading “beg for stupid buffs.”
Got it.
I’m not saying its useless. Invincibility on EX ST has been asked for since vanilla… before SSF4 was even announced. It happened. I honestly didn’t think it had a shot at happening, let alone in addition to cHP buff but it did.
What if the answer is no? Because what I’m seeing from Prof is “fuck it, I want CH buffed and I don’t give a fuck about anything else.” I think its probably a good idea to at least offer alternatives we can work with instead of pouting because we didn’t get our way leaving it to Capcom to figure it out themselves… and we ALL know the history of how that went.
Or maybe my opinion is asinine and presumptuous.
Haz I had a similar problem quoting yesterday. Try logging out, closing browser, reopening browser, and logging back in. That worked for me last night.
Self contradiction ahoooy
I tested that specific scenario. If they’re in the corner crouching, you can still hit them with EX FBA if your heel is above the R in Super while standing. Test it yourself, it works.
Ah, but I see what your problem is. A max range cr.strong or cr.forward whiff EX FBA. Again, the reason is the pushback and the animation. For SOME reason, whenever he pushes back with those two tools you can’t follow up with certain attacks at certain ranges, for example point blank cr.forward to ST will whiff both short and forward ST. What’s really interesting is that you can hit with cr.forward from about 90% of its range and still hit with EX FBA, but the most maximum range won’t work. However, cr.strong can hit from farther away and still hit with EX FBA beyond the range of cr.forward, but like cr.forward, maximum range cr.strong whiffs EX FBA as well. If you notice during the animation, the opponent leans back a good bit, so that the knee flies over their head. So a combination of pushback and them leaning back lowering their hurt box makes EX FBA. I still can’t figure out why ST whiffs on standing opponents during push back when using cr.forward to cancel. cr.strong pushes them too far away for any ST to connect so that makes sense. I’m wondering if maybe there is some odd bug going on that you can’t connect connect forward ST when it clearly passes over the character.
Still, unless you’re going for extreme max range pokes, most of the range of cr.forward and cr.strong still hit when canceled to EX FBA. This however, could be an issue if they extend the hit box to the tip of the claw instead of halfway, as then having the extra range would be truly pointless since EX FBA would whiff on a good 15% of the range then, otherwise you’d be poking simply to cause a little pressure. Not that the extra pressure wouldn’t be nice, it’s just the lack of a damage follow up.
The above I tested on E.Ryu.
I just tested Chun because I did not see that part of the post for some reason. Chun you can still hit and not whiff EX FBA with about 90% of the range of cr.forward. cr.strong is a different story though, you have to be in the range of around a max cr.jab. Which kinda sucks, since in that case, you might as well just use jab.
Went back and played vanilla last night and realized that that used to be our bnb. (cMK, cLPxx EX FBA)
So it doesn’t matter that when we made a simple error of not guessing it right we eat a DP FADC U1 instead of being able to block?
Or you think that if we did a CH and the opponent did not teched the throw we should be punished with DP FADC U1, (mostly Seth’s) HP SPD, crLP crLP crLK Headbutt U1, crLP crLP Super Ultra, crLK crLK Scissor, crLP crLP crMK xx EX Tiger Shot to full screen and so on?
It’s not bad. Just, now a days we can do cr.forward, cr.jab, cr.strong, EX FBA if we get a close range cr.forward. For some reason though, I have a much harder time doing cr.forward to cr.jab than cr.forward to cr.strong. I don’t know why 
I should probably incorporate jab more into my game plan, which I don’t do a lot of. ST habits.
Well not guessing right (ie guessing wrong) to me is fine for getting punished. It was like that in AE for the most part too… (exactly the reason I DONT use it with the intent of being blocked). I’ve been expecting a CH nerf since Capcom asked for feedback. To me if its blocked I’m just riding on borrowed time getting away with it. I’ll make the adjustment back to pre SSF4 CH use after changes are finalized if its at least +3 on block at some range. Otherwise, I still have the AE mindset and doing a 14 frame startup move at point blank doesn’t exactly thrill me. Those situations to me are virtually the same now as they would be in USF4. You cannot “safely” (using that loosely) follow up CH with anything unless it’s at least +2 so by default anyway your best option after CH is block.
But I didn’t play much 2012 either so I didn’t have much time to build up the habit
I 100% agree with you that SSF4 CH with improved hit/hurtbox is perfect. I would take that over invincibility on EX ST and +4 on block for EX RCF any day. But I don’t see it happening. I could be wrong. And I’m still going to ask for it. But I don’t want to leave it to Capcom on their own without giving them SOMETHING to strike a potential compromise in the event they decide against it. That’s why I asked if Vega couldn’t get CH rebuffed (usefully), what would you want instead?
.
I’m with Vegaman on this. I really only use CH to hit someone doing a bad jump or so. If I’m close, I’m going to use something like cr.forward and link it to something else, or something, since CH has way too much start up to be useful at close range. CH is a good long range tool. I don’t care for it up close unless they’re going to significantly cut the start up so you could surprise open your opponent up with it at close range.
You know what I wish we got, was Alpha Claw’s normal roundhouse axe kick, but with the property of hitting above his head as his foot is in the air. Make it a command normal, bam, we got our clsoe range AA.