Correct! Doing this way will help you to raise your kid become top tier comparing to other kids
You know I had totally forgotten about CH changes at all. Dudes, they’ve taken back every.single.buff. that the first Ultra build had. Remember how CH was supposed to be faster? No, instead they gave us back our AE nerfed from Super CH.
It’s so funny because they basically “buffed” him by not nerfing him like they were planning originally. We didn’t get shit.
This is something I’ve been arguing for the longest. It makes absolutely no sense for a character that is forced to be on the defensive so often to be punished for using his defenses properly. That claw will fly off while taking a hit, absorbing a focused hit, or blocking. What does he use to keep it on, two-sided tape? Afterwards, Vega is left to either do less damage or re-focus his efforts to pick up the accessory with which he started the match. I could understand if the claw was an item that you had to pick up like Cody’s knife. However, considering it’s a part of his base stats, it shouldn’t be so easy to knock it away. It’s silly.
I’m definitely underwhelmed by them returning things that shouldn’t have been removed in the first place and giving him such lazy “buffs” leaving Vega in pretty much the same spot he’s been in consistently since Vanilla. Vega used to be much more fun to play in previous games. But the way he’s been implemented into this game, he’s become a character you really have to babysit. He used to be a sub-boss. Now he’s sub-par. He’s my main and I’ll keep playing him, but I think his uphill battles are steeper than they should be.
you guys haven’t factored in how delayed wakeup and ex red focus combo for vega can affect many matchups. our greatest weakness knockdown and lockdown. knockdown now doesn’t need a 50/50 guess. lockdown is still a problem, but with dp nerfed, and us getting that cr.hp buff on most dive kick characters, i say the changes seems ok. my only grip with the changes is that rufus is going to be even harder since our saving grace was that 50/50 setup we have on him…
Ok, someone correct me if I’m completely wrong on this; I haven’t read how it works exactly, but how does the delayed wake up help Vega.
It’s just my assumption that, let’s take Cammy as example, all that bitch needs to do is score a knowckdown. Then she just needs to do divekick and mash cr.jab/light (with OS sweep/drill/whatever).
If we wakeup normal, then divekick gets blocked, we’re in a lockdown, and she’s free to choose from continuing with combo string, frame trap, grab or another divekick, and we’re left to guess.
If we delay wakeup, then the divekick whiffs but we still have to block the OS cr.jab/light on wakeup, so that puts us in lockdown, and she’s free to choose from continuing with combo string, frame trap, grab or another divekick, and we’re left to guess.
Am I being overly stupid here or how exactly do we use the delayed wakeup to avoid this? Or is the point of the delayed wakeup merely to avoid divekick crossup shenaningans, meaning that we’re still in lockdown and have to block, only with the simple benefit of knowing which direction to block in?
Yeah from what I can tell, that seems about it. Less 50/50s. Most characters can still spam their 3 frame jabs over our lifeless body until we wake up and are forced to block. My friends had warned me about them taking back the start up invincibility on ST, stating that people at loctests complained that it was broken with delayed wake up. I seriously can’t comprehend how that would make Vega broken. It just makes me think you have to respect his wake up if you’re doing stupid stuff directly in front of him. You jump over, he loses charge. You get hit by it, there’s no combo into ANYTHING let alone painful ultra (yes there are potential mix ups opportunities but that just means the opponent should learn to block like we’ve been doing for over half a decade). If they block it, free punish; no FADC to make it safe. Maybe I’m missing something…
^
this. sure you have to “guess”, so does the opponent, they have to guess how you will escape. back then, they just do that stupid dive and it SOMETIMES crossup, the attacker don’t have to guess, YOU do, which is unfair.
IMO i find ex st op as well. people work so hard to get in on vega, and you just blow them away with a easy ex st, and that’s it. remember, cammy can’t do that much stun any more, and most character combos do around 200 for every combo. as long as you can do more damage then that keeping them out, it evens out. knockdown isn’t as scary as it once was. just remember that this doesn’t affect soft knockdowns though, so cammy’s strategy is still very effective. she only loses the back throw setup which is way more ambiguous. soft knockdown can be delayed by maximum of 5 frames, so we have SOME control there as well.
rufus is a different story. most of his knock downs are soft, and even if successfully dived, he can just continue pressure with more dives. this would be the only match in ultra where i WISH i have ex st, haha
I think inv ex st just means they have to find different, possibly less safe oki. As it stands Vega gets knocked down and the opponent can be as stupid as they want as long as they don’t jump late or throw a projectile directly in front of us. With some invincibility on start-up they have to be more cautious, that’s it. Just like we have to be cautious around a shoto or balrog or fei or cammy or guy (they’ve taken away that disclaimer so that 2f invincible spin kick appears to be real) or guile. They can safe jump, see the “Technical” text meaning we’re delaying wake up, and adjust accordingly. Plus we are using our precious meter to get them off us. No meter? No “get off me” move. I think it’s a fair trade. People had a knee-jerk reaction at the loctest just like everybody freaking out about the the srk fadc nerf. It just means they need to make adjustments.
OAN did anybody see the nerf to Rog’s Dirty Bull? That left me scratching my head.
that 2f guy spin kick is real??? god damn…
yeah, dirty bull got nerfed because it was waaaaaaaaay too op. look at it’s utility!
as for people reaction to ex st, yeah, that could be the case that people find it op just playing a few hours of it and don’t want to change how they approach vega…but i find it no big deal because when i look at my gameplay and every other high level vega, they all can successfully focus back dash out of people’s attacks, but they mostly lose to ambiguous shit. never underestimate vega’s ability to focus back dash and punish their lp/throw with cr.lp, cr.mp combo. we also have a kara throw for defence so most people can’t really use delayed frame traps.
The last thing ill say about ex-st.
The problem with ex-st is not really at wake up, if that was the only thing to consider it would be fine, but the problem lies in neutral game.
If vega is allowed half screen pokes that build decent meter and can combo into decent damage and then on top of that an awesome invincible, damaging , stunning, offence building EX-ST Anti air. Vega would be way too hard to approach , whereas its one of his weaknesses now.
Then you finally have gotten in and Vega down: suprise! he has a 4f invincible wake up to respect now too, one of his other weaknesses solved too.
It would be the same mistake as making Guiles sonic boom build great meter again and make ex-flashkick even better. Some of the reasons for him being near the top of the charts in Super.
It also would make Vega into one of those downback only kind of characters.
The problem of this problem (which makes it a solution) is that i-frames on EX-ST would still not make it an AA(assuming its only 1-4f). If you want to take advantage of the single active frame that is invencible you are going to need a really precise timing and spacing. It would also lose to empty jumps as well.
EX-ST would help Claw to be able to react to bullshit like Air/Jaguar Kicks, wheel kicks and so on.
I play some rufus on the side and it is possible to stuff wheel kicks and jag kicks with standing far.hp.
I think cr.hp would be able to stuff them as well.
If you guess even stLP will work, but you can’t react with that.
I’m just annoyed that they were considering buffing several of his tools and then changed their mind. Those would have been really good tools, even if they only picked one out of the 3. I would have been happy with the 2 frame link, a faster CH, or ST.
i was learning ken in the past few weeks and found hp dp to suck REALLY hard as an anti air. either trades or gets stuffed. it also has only 4 frames of invincibility but with a 3 frame start up. that’s what ex st with invincibility would be like i guess
I don’t think Vega having i-frames EX ST will make him brokenly unable to be approached, he still has to charge and he only has 4 chances in using if he want to sacarfice all 4 bars to AA or to combo.
Once Vega has 4 bars instead of 1 or 2 chances to use the ex ST instead of ex FBA combos then there will be a slight problem will be small cuz, the ex ST will only hit once once it AA’s.
There are still epople who think it will make Vega OP.
I’m just mad that people can spam jab on his wake up and he can’t do shit. Jab spam beats ST? Are you fucking serious? Man, I want it to at least trade. I don’t need it to beat anything out right, but at least trade. Trading ST isn’t so bad because it launches them in the air, which means we could still recover and gain space if we need or whatever. I’d be perfectly happy if they buffed ST to at least trade on wake up, hell, that’s all it pretty much does most of the time.
Some photage from USF4 arcade…Vega player at around the 11 minute mark…a may be looking to much into it but it looks like RCF got its recovery shortened…he was spamming it and getting away with it much to often…also in the first round he cmp’s right after a blocked rcf and gets a counterhit…rcf may be positive on block now (or meaby Dee Jay specials are just that slow)
Sorry forgot to put the link…there needs to be an edit button
There is an edit button 