Ultra changes (location test)

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
921

I bet Decapre has a fucking down up charge with 10 iframes reversal with no meter. Plus, I bet she has walk back meterless armor breaker, too. Fuck Capcom. Now we have 2 Cammy match ups to worry about.

This is so stupid. Seriously. So Cammy will get nerfed but then they say hey, here is Decrapre, basically Cammy, and she’ll be able to put on the pressure so no worries!

Where is our fucking buffs?? Give me a non-charge Vega alt who isn’t really Vega so I can finally play a character I like playing who isn’t shit tier.

922

Im not even mad anymore, I have accepted this, I can’t even lie, I think her mask looks really cool and her normals and some of her specials and ultras looks awesome. I kinda hate to say it, but Capcom has brought me back into using my money on them again for a viable women vega version i guess.

Once they add in a alt costume they won’t make her look like cammy at all , then i will be even more sold.

923

At least now my avatar is legit :slight_smile:

924

Yeah Haz I just got back from FR. I had a conversation with him after the Decapre incident. I gave him both our inputs. He says he apologizes to all of us. He tried and agrees and hears us but Capcom Japan says what we ask for makes him too good in their eyes. Vega was the first character he tried getting buffed but ultimately this is their decision. He did say that Vega will be getting some buffs but probably nothing we care about. He said he’ll look over our notes and push for what he can.

I tried cancelling roll into super without mask on and it did good damage, but I’m still pretty skeptical on the fact it costs 4 bars. If they put it at 350 damage then I’d retract my negativity for it, but at 300 it’s just not worth it.

I also mentioned the Decapre matchup, Peter emphasized that she’s not going to be this good. Capcom is still working on her.

925

They have like 2 weeks to work on it since it’s hitting arcades. No announcements of anything serious for Vega. (edit: I do see that you wrote we won’t care about the buffs anyway, but what’s the point at this point in time? They’ve made it clear they do not care) He got nerfed, it’s so retarded. I appreciate that Peter apologized to us but what’s the point of him trying to rebalance the game if they don’t even care about his input? Why did they hire him then?

How sincere was he? This wasn’t like a “oh man I gotta pretend to be sincere because here is yet another player mad about his character,” or do you feel like he was legit?

I have a hard time believing he’ll get any buffs at all and that they won’t further nerf him, 2 weeks :frowning: I mean, next thing we know they’ll put more recovery and start up on cr.MK because it’s OP in CJ’s eyes. They took away everything else might as well take that away too and slap us with the Vanilla stick.

926

Truly it is a sad day to main Vega. I hope those buffs we probably won’t care about will at least be helpful to some extent…

927

He seemed pretty sincere. He’s also made it clear he’s heard it… a LOT from us.

I think the buffs are already set and that the builds from today and previous are from December-ish. Though I will say that most of the buffs me and Haz mentioned were very easy buffs (and most of it was the same). They wouldn’t take but a few hours at most to do. I would have fixed Haz’s spelling and stuff to make it a bit easier to read if he’d had put it in text format for him, but it was an image file so I couldn’t make changes. Looking over it, I didn’t see anything that I personally couldn’t understand, and I’m sure that Peter would be able to read it as well. Though if Capcom Japan gets it, that may be a different story trying to translate it. So I added a bit of Haz’s stuff to mine just in case.

But for me… I think I’m done. I’ve made the argument since AE was even mentioned. Decapre just kinda adds insult to injury from my perspective. Iono. I’ll think about it. For me though, Gran Turismo is looking pretty appealing.

928

Well, I still have the text file for it. But I don’t think it actually matters now or even back then.

Thanks for you effort. We surely did what we could.

929

Indeed, what can you do. Decapre really is rubbing salt in the wounds at this point, since she’ll have every tool Vega lacks and all the good things that make Cammy good like nice pokes and good range, which is what Vega is supposed to excel at.

I think I’m done, too. I never really took the game serious because ST is my main game, but it’s hard to get new people involved in it when all they want to play is SF4. So I try to play SF4, and just shake my head at it, because it’s not really the kind of game I want to play. No focus on poking game and can’t really hit and run. I just wanted to have fun with the character I use and if they gave him a few more options to deal with all the options other characters have it would make my casuals some what fun.

930

Capcom hates Vega. This isn’t news. Just play Rolento or Decapre.

931

you people are fucking hilarious. hahahaha. Why do you allow yourselves to get continiously played by Capcom at this point. It’s obvious vega was never going to get fixed.

rather than fix him, they make a palette swap and i

YOur stupid if you think end game is 5 options, and even stupider if you believe Marvel was only about 5 characters/teams. There whre plenty of players and niche players that had great success using unconvential teams in both games, and you only assume that those 5 stupid option where the only thing that existed. And as much as I hate SF3, that shitty game was more than 3 characters. You should explore those games and stop saying stupid scrub shit.

Yes the Seth unblockable has been around since SF2. You jump, when super was filled, you get busted by a super fireball. Did you ever play against a competent Ryu? This is no diffrent, and people like you bitched about it being so OP that they even removed Ryu
s ability to land a guaranteed super because the opponent was stupid enough to jump

And it’s obviously you didn’t read what I said since your so fucking hung up on the broken shit, as if that’s the only thing that exists. Which it isn’t, and shows that your hung up on some bull shit bias nonsense. You assume the unblockable thing would exist, when that was a god damn engine issue and not a character issue. You really shouldn’t be talking about shit you don’t understand. that glitch worked becasue the Ultra frame would force any character that was blocking to stop blocking, so by putting a projectile on top of the character, and initiating the Ultra, you could take advantage of shitty engine coding. So bringing back those assholes, wouldn’t bring this back, since it was an engine problem, and not a character issue.

You also admit that it could balance itself out, but immediately dismiss it, and say it’s stupid blah blah blah. You’re the one that oughta stop with your bullshit and think things thoroughly. You are completely dismissing something because you yourself don’t want do deal with what you perceive to be stupid/broken. And your rationlization further proves it.

PS. Marvel and CvSnk2 where not better designed. They where essentially a clusterfuck of characters and ideas dropped into a game. LOL at you thinkg that at any point, Marvel two was actually tested for anything. hahahaha

YOu should really try and understand what makes a good game, good. SF3, 2 and Marvel aren’t good becuase they where designed better. Random damage, random dizzy, random everything is a staple of SF2. At what point do you assume this is superior design? It’s not, it’s stupid as fuck. So please cut your shit out

932

Capcom goes over this guy’s house, fuck his daughter, wipe its dick in his courtain and he is all like: Heh, look at that. They did it again. What a bummer.

Dude. If I had the chance of trying to change their minds I would do it again. I did care for this game back then so it was worth it a shot. I am sure that this apply for everyone that tried to do something.

You laugh of someone e-mailing tips to Capcom when you are, at the same time, exchanging insults in the internet while pretending that you are arguing something with someone that you don’t even know.

That is the only funny thing that I got in this page.

933

I don’t think it’s specifically this. What I’ve gathered over the years of talking to Ono, and Ayano, and Seth, and Peter is that they are really paranoid of an ST repeat and that they would rather have him too weak than even remotely risk him being too good.

I had a feeling when I started hearing rumors that the JP Vega players were dominating at the first loctest and got off the machine out of boredom and not because they lost that he was going to get nerfed. Yet when I watch JP Vega players playing, I really never see them do any better than Vega players over here.

934

Well, lets be honest. Reiketsu and makoto0124 are the ones that really count.

I am sorry. While uenis, brokkenG and the likes are kinda good… they are not top player material.

Reiketsu is the ONLY one that somewhat shows up in top 8 on their tournaments, even then he never won anything IIRC.

So why they really think that Claw is such a menace to the metagame is really a mistery.

935

Thing is ST Vega doesn’t really dominate many match ups. He has 2 (out of 16) that he dominates 7 - 3 and that’s Guile and Sim. Otherwise, all the rest of his matches are 6 - 4 (in SF2 that’s very possible to win) and 5 - 5, and of course, if he gets knocked down he has a difficult time dealing with cross up, but not nearly as bad as in 4. Even low tiers have a shot at beating him and are pretty fair match ups. Wall dive loop could have been fixed with a soft knock down if they really wanted to adjust him to be a bit more fair. It’s total crap this is their excuse for SF4. The main reason he is considered dominant in SF2 is because of wall dive loop, which because of hard knock down allows him to vortex a bit. However, anyone who is consistent at reversal or, in the case of a character like Balrog who simply has to charge down, will break the loop. You have to loop a lot to win a match and it has to be frame perfect, and the timing always changes as the opponent’s position will change for every knock down. If you are 1 frame too early you will be punished and 1 frame too late and you’ll get for sure reversal. None of that matters in SF4 because of soft knock down and quick get up, plus dash invulnerability and Focus Attack. There is 4 game mechanics which nullify his dominant play style. Then there is also 5 frames to reverse attack with on top of those 4 game mechanics which makes this impossible to do unless fighting newbies. 6 game mechanics if you factor in jiggling the stick for DP shortcut between down back and down forward for auto-correct DP.

So take away wall dive loop from SF2 Vega and what does he have? Well, speed, for one, in a fast paced game. Then amazing pokes with a lot of priority. Great neutral jump options and a fast and quick jump arc. On top of that, he also has access to a difficult to pull off cross up and a reversal attack that works as a get off me, kind of. These are all effective in SF2. You could win matches using pokes because raw damage is good in that game and you can hit and run and play catch me if you can. In SF4 since he doesn’t have a cross up, doesn’t have a reversal, that leaves him with speed in a slow paced game which means it’s easier to react to and pokes do not win this game. Not enough frame advantage on block means people can jump him easy and he has no real get off me to deal with that. So poking is out, and you don’t get big damage from a hit confirm unless you have meter. Of course, low raw damage means a nerf to his other play style from SF2, which was controlling space with normal attacks and wearing the opponent down. You can’t even really do this in SF4. You can try, but there are so many options to deal with it that it is no longer effective. Basically, the game itself nerfs Vega and does not reward his style of play from the days of yore.

I don’t understand why Capcom thinks Vega will have his own tier if they give him a 2 frame link from jab or a legit reversal option, or even both. This is NOT ST where he has a dominating game mechanic, this is SF4 with engine mechanics that nullify completely any of those old SF2 tactics. They should know, they made the games. Not that it surprises me, they’re all smoking crack now a days. 1 word. Ken.

936

First of all, Decapre’s claw seems only there aesthetically. It doesnt add much to her range.
The reason for her mask is completely different.
So I’m against the comparisons between her and Vega.
Anyone comparing these two really didn’t get Vega’s unique playstyle, their harmony. Fucking, boring drills are still boring if you have a short claw in your hand.

On the other hand shame on Capcom for not even giving her an original posture. Even her grabs are the same. The model itself is just an alternate costume for Cammy. At least change the color of her hair for fucks sake. Even the voice is the same.

Decapre is an abomination. At least seems like that. I’m just glad she is a charge char.

On another topic, big thanks to Vegaman for his efforts. I’m glad Combofiend heard us. I’m sure they won’t leave Vega like this, but we wont get +5 on jabs (or +4 but 3 fr. start-up), or inv.ex.ST, but we will get something along with our ex.roll.

Just hang in there till the last day.

937

Listen, it’s been like two weeks so I don’t care anymore. I’m not doing the whole WoT back and forth.

But I did skim the post tho and you appear to be telling me that a anti-air/tripguard super is the same as unblockable meaty fireball into Ultra. You’re a scrub GG

938

Yea I understand what it is. “Capcom hates Vega” is an oversimplification and that they are genuinely, if misguidedly, concerned about the character’s potential OPness. Vega is a lot like Rolento or Guile, the design is just inherently good. There has never been a game where Rolento wasn’t awesome. Guile was once amazing in CPS1 SF2 games and ever since then Capcom has been extremely careful about how they balance the character (until Ultra comes out). It’s just that we’ve known this was going to happen for months now, so I’m just beyond the point of genuinely discussing this. Our fate has sealed for months, Vega’s not getting the buffs he needs, and I’d rather just make lazy, irresponsible statements like “Capcom hates Vega” instead of discuss the nuances of the problem and call it a day. It’s kind of like how I’m not hurt about Decapre’s reveal. We’ve known this was going to happen for months, I had a feeling that Ono was outright lieing again, I was already disappointed a while ago. I was already mad about Vega a while ago, that’s over with. I would rather discuss my own apathy like I am now.

And I barely remember making that post. I was pretty drunk.

939

With all that being said… Cr.HP is definitely very good in this new build.

940

Do you think they might have fixed the hitbox behind our backs?