Not in the Final Round build. There was a distinct change in the first and 2nd frames of the move. Normally I nail DJ clean when he tries that stupid jump short with only 2 active frames. I did it with the same timing (went to a regular 2012 station just to make sure) and I got hit. Perhaps they did adjust the hitbox, but it looked worse to me in all honesty. It still worked on some things like Adon’s Jag tooth and other dive kicks (actually it was really good vs dive kicks so maybe not “worse”), but other things it didn’t as easily as it used to… whatever they changed, it still loses to Gief’s jumping short too.
@Moonchilde it wasn’t just ST though. He was good in A3 and CvS2 too, just for different reasons. Like that part was made clear when me and theonly_J went and demanded to S-kill to know what was up with the nerfs to Vega from SSF4 to AE. What Capcom Japan doesn’t seem to understand is that without Vega’s historic speed (both given to the character and due to the game speed), without CCs, without options, and with focuses/parrys in the game, he’s by no means ever going to be on a “too good” level. Like Decapre’s teleport speed… that’s how Vega’s wall dives should really look. His pokes should be shorter in duration. Everything just needs to be sped up soooooo god damn much. With that kinda movement speed in addition to walk speed and range, THEN I can start to see the argument that he’s too good by giving him more options. There’s literally thousands of ways to make him decent without making him broken or even “top tier” (god I fucking hate that term).
I fully agree!! Even a speed boost would be a huge buff. If they made him 20% faster with faster normals I wouldn’t give a damn if he had no reversal or his EX RCF, cr.MP xx EX FBA link or a cross up or meterless damage potential because I should be able to play hit and run and no one would catch me, and if they did, they DESERVE to win. I could win by playing Vega like… Vega! I can’t believe Akuma has he same fucking walk speed as Vega, what the fuck.
A3 Vega was an entirely different beast. IMO he kinda sucked since you couldn’t cancel punches into moves and his wall dive was much weaker in the game. His main saving grace was V-Ism and infinites, but he still wasn’t top tier. He was good though! Shit guard meter (I hated guard meters, that is not SF!!) though and weak defense, but I’m ok with that because that’s Vega!
I think they did something to djs jumping lk because I couldnt not anti air it with rufus’s cr.strong which I can do 100 of the time even on xbl it was like dj would just warp through and land behind without any hit hurtbox collisions
He wasn’t fixed, nor was he given anything of significant value. You can put two and two together. It should have been obvious that Capcom was fine with Vega, and in fact felt like he had too much of a good thing in SSF4. I mean, a simple hit box fix on cr.hp and st.hk that didn’t happen between all versions is proof that Capcom wasn’t going to do anything. That’s as simple as it gets, and they couldn’t even do that. they even went as far as nerf cr.mp damage output and make U2 even more situation specific.
That’s why it’s funny that anybody at this point can legitimaltly expect any real changes. They taking away that EX RCF combo should have been the final straw. The diffrence between me and you, is that I argue with forum members, and I know it’s futile, you hopelessly believe that capcom is actually going to take any community emails, read them, and then apply them. Capcom has never cared for that, and haven’t changed anything on the wishes of the community alone. They always go with what they want.
uh, the unblockable you talked about I addressed pendejo.
in SF4 there was no unblockable, well it existed, but it wasn’t found out until SSF4. the same tripguard existed for seth and Ryu in Vanilla and was removed in SSF4, which is what I was talking about, but your dumbass cannot read.
And I addressed that the unblockable won’t be making a comeback in pick your flaver SF because that unblockable was a engine error and not a character error.
They came very close to fixing Vega, to the point of overkill, in addition to constantly advertising that they’re using community feedback for balancing. It was definitely worth trying to talk some sense with Capcom people when they said they were interested in hearing us and most of us appreciate Vegaman’s and Haztlan’s efforts. It’s your ass that hasn’t done shit and wants to call people “whack” and laugh at them for putting in work for looking out for our best interests.
“bringing back seth unblockable would be dumb”
“seth unblockable was in SF2 you sound scrubby as hell”
“no it wasn’t”
“yes it was if you jumped against Ryu with bar he would hit you with an unblockable super”
“that’s a tripguard/antiair and is not at all an unblockable you’re a scrub”
“your dumb ass can’t read they removed it from Ryu and Seth” (FYI Seth never really had that fireball cancel into AA super trick, not that he can’t do it as but it doesn’t work as a fullscreen AA/trip and they never removed it from him, they did hit Rose with that nerf eventually tho. But that’s not here nor there because none of this has shit to do with unblockables and no the Seth unblockable was not in SF2)
You are an idiot and a scrub.
And no guarantee it would be fixed, unblockable ultras were patched out of Super not Vanilla, if it was an accurate remake of Vanilla characters their ultra flash would still make things unblockable.
This. And everytime they attack, they should yell “Youreascruben”.
But hey, whoever the winner is, both will probably be nerfed or kept as they are anyway.
In all seriousness, I just wanted to thank Vegaman and Haztlan for their efforts. It was worth the try.
And, as Lethiros already pointed out, we can still hope that some changes “we don’t care about” are relevant and interesting to some extent.
cHP hitbox fix (without the spiffy pics)
EX FBA not whiffing after cMP on any character at any range
um… (looking at Haz’s list again)
Mask Pick up with down + taunt
Neg Edge activation removed from SHC (can’t believe I had almost forgot that one)
CH hitting low pokes
U2 catching empty jumps
I think that’s it. I ended up rewriting it anyway simply because I didn’t want Peter to have the excuse that he’s read it already.
Basically I did a rewrite of my post from a few pages back after I said I wasn’t rewriting it again. I still pushed for a close and far grounded normal being +3 on block (emphasis on close normal). I modified my point from Haz though saying that he should either get a 5th active frame on cHP or a hitbox fix with ZERO damage or stun reduction and no increase in startup (no problem with hit or blockstun reduction though but I didn’t mention that).
I put in my write up to revert super damage back to 400… but after trying it out I told Peter I understood why they nerfed the damage. I sae a bit more why they did it. I still think that 300 is way too much damage reduction for its use but the thing I notice looking back is that when Vega tended to have full meter, it corresponded with it occurring near the beginning of the 2nd round where RCFxx Super led to a quick half life (or more) lead. Because of that Vega could play basically 1 and a half rounds to win instead of 2. Personally, I think 350 is sufficient, but meh. I don’t see myself having the spare meter to blow on landing a 20f startup move or jump in to get it.
I also put in that if no offensive buffs I mentioned (PoM +4 on hit, CH +3 on block at max spacing, Armor on EX RCF, etc… stuff I always push for), that ST needs a complete revamp with invincibility on all versions and/or hitbox fixes on all versions and/or the ability to FADC it for safety (unless the nerf for DP FADC being -5 on block sticks) and for ST to be able to combo into both Ultras.
I still can’t believe so many people have problems with neg edge SHC. I never get it in SF4. Sometimes in ST but because of the faster input pace, but that’s my execution error.
I don’t think CH should hit low attacks, I would prefer it has more airborne frames to make it easier to go over low attacks. If it hit low attacks you could throw it out like no one’s business, it would be more OP than jab +5 on hit. It would be funny if they gave it to us though, all while saying jab +5 on hit is OP.
Those ST buffs would be awesome. If he got invincibility on meterless ST it would be the only buff he’d need. Combined with combo into Ultra would make him tournament worthy.
Anyway, as far as I’m concerned, these really aren’t “buffs”, but “fixes” that Capcom ALREADY should have payed attention to and taken care of. I mean, most of those suggestions are such obvious “any sane person understands that this is how it should work” things that it baffles me that Capcom has let it pass so long yet hasn’t fixed them.
I-frames or +5 crLP would be buffs but I guess I can only dream about those things now.
CH is a hop over attack, why should it hit low sweeps? It should hit no higher than the waist which is fine since that’s high enough to hit plenty of crouching attacks on recovery. I just don’t think it should hit the actual sweep part, like a shoto low forward. That would be ridiculous. Having more frames of airborne would make it much easier to go over that low forward and smack them in the chest or head if they’re crouching.
I am not following this “more airborne frames are needed to make it easier to go over low forwards”. The way it seems to me it looks like you don’t know how things works. Airborne frames have absolutely nothing to do with a move going over another one.
Anyway, CH is a move designed to beat croch tech attempts… and it whiff against crLKs. Obviously something is wrong.
It obviously doesn’t need to beat shit like Rose’s Slide or Hakan/Blanka’s Coward Crouch. But being able to hit at least shoto’s crMK and every crLK in the game is absolutely necessary.
Hell, even Guile is getting this buff on his Upside Down Kick and he is not even supossed to have good offensive tools.
You obviously want Vega to be considered airborne sooner when he does CH like the rest of us. Doing so would make it a much more reliable counter to stationary lows so I’m a bit confused as to why you felt the need to bring up recovery on lows when it makes no difference at all. It’s a high profile move after all but it’s one with a delayed hurtbox that don’t match the visual animation and ironical makes it susceptible to lows.
And having it crush lows (AKA evading the low while hitting crouching opponents, obviously) wouldn’t make it OP. It has it own counters. Standing attacks, anti airs, meaty attacks, lows the propels character forward, etc. or at least that’s how it should be.
Plus the fact it’s got a 14 frame start up and puts Vega at a disadvantage when spaced improperly. There are only 5 normals in any build/version in the game I could see even being remotely close to being the defining factor in making a character OP. Vanilla Sagat’s elbow, Dudley’s elbow, Guy’s elbow, Rog’s cLP, and DJ’s jLK. And none of those made their character OP… So for anyone to make a claim that ANY normal being buffed is going to make ANY character OP (including Vega) it’s going to have to be one hell of a normal the likes of which haven’t been seen in any version of the game.
I’ve looked a few times but I think there wasn’t an official changelog. I think I remember them saying they want us to discover the changes.::
But going off memory:
Increased hitbox size on EX FBA
Increased Izuna Drop range
Increased damage on super (from 350 to 400 IIRC)
PoM hits high
U1 meter drain happens on activation instead of at wall
U2 added
Harder to knock Mask and Claw off
Damage penalty for removed mask reduced to 10% (from 25%)
Mask removal only costs 1 bar (used to cost 2)
Wall grab no longer misses from screen scroll
Launcher hit added to U1
Fewer total frames for all focus attacks.