just remember he has a height limitation on when the throw actually starts, that’s also the reason why it’s isn’t an all purpose anti air unless you have god like reactions. doing it too early gives you a jumping lk
Vega’s airthrow is great. 4frames, butlargest range.
correction, 3 frames, 2nd largest range, largest range goes to guile
Having the same mentality for the last 5 years and applying it to what is “technically” a new game makes no sense to me.
In theory, Ultra will be played differently that v2012, largely in part of the system mechanic changes put in place. Which by the way, people in here has spoke very little about.
Theoretically speaking, vortexes are gone. We have a chance to reset rush down situations that are currently inescapable because of os auto pilot bs.
On the subject of system mechanic changes, my question to everyone who’s played the new build, how effective is the wake up delay in reseting the situation? Did you find yourself once again in an inescapable situation?
My point is (and always was) that, if vortexes no longer pose a threat, is there any longer a need for good AA?
If vortexes still pose a problem then I agree, we absolutely need an escape option such as an invincible ex ST.
Vortex situations have absolutely fuck all to do with anti airs.
Do you even play this game?
No. I was right. One moment.
I apologize for the double post but I couldn’t find the edit button.
@The Joker
You’re approaching my responses from such an aggressive, standoff-ish, point.
I’m gonna clarify some things and be done with this conversation.
First off, my use of the word opinion ABSOLUTELY does not mean NO ONE can disagree with me. My goodness man, is english your first language because you’re completely wrong. To clarify, I made it clear that it was, “my opinion” to signify that I am not speaking on absolute terms. I had an opinion and felt like sharing it.
Secondly, I announced my background (Vega main since vanilla) as a way of introducing myself. While doing so, I paid homage to all contributors in SRK that has helped me become a successful Vega player. I also stated that although I’m a new poster, I’ve been browsing these forums for years, again as a way of introducing myself.
Your last response proves to me that you approached everything I said with aggression, which made you take everything I said negatively.
Anyway, I’m done. I respect every player whether I agree with them or not.
sigh…reread my post please.
No.
both eventhubs and srk wiki says 3 frame startup, with a range of 1.05, while guiles is 1.25. unless they’re wrong? is the internets playing with me?
Vega - 3F startup 2F active 1.2 Range
Cammy - 5F startup 2F active 1.0 range
Guile (both forward and backward) - 3F startup 2F active 1.07 range
Chun - 3F startup 2F active 1.1 range
Hakan - 2F startup 2F active 1.1 Range
El Fuerte - 3F startup 2F active 1.15 range
Ibuki - 3F startup 2F active 1.1 range
Guy (Special Move input required) - 3F startup 2F active 1.0 Range (EX Version is 3F active)
This is the air throw data. My bad on the startup.
Edit: Cleaned up. Mine is via srk wiki and posted by.SRK’s Eternal and accurate to my knowledge.
what the hell eventhubs, stop making me believe in your lies.
i just checked the ssf4 hitbox data, it says vega is 1.2 and guile is 1.25. did they change anything during ae and 2012??
Yes. I do believe Guile’s range was reduced.
Odd… I was under the impression Guile’s air throw range beat Vega’s starting in SSF4 but startup was increased to 4 frames. In AE they changed it back to 3 frame start up and has been both further in range and same start up.
Considering how often my air throws get beat out by his I question the numbers, so I’ll test it out. I can’t give exact range numbers but I can tell whose range is further
The numbers are there. Guile can beat ours circumstantially because he has no height restriction and different hitbox placement.
Well that was quick. Vega can air throw guile at a range guile can’t air throw Vega. Guess the data is right
Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are known discrepancies between frame-data and hitbox data regarding throw ranges, aren’t they ? So that could explain why Guile’s air throw is superior to what frame data would imply. =)
It’s a different problem. When being knocked down, you can be it at the very first frame of your wake-up, meaning that any non-invincible anti-air attempt could be stuffed during startup. So what is needed here is an invincible reversal; but that isn’t a good idea either 'cause of safe-jumps anyway.
The use for an invincible EX-ST would be against mix-up implying frame-traps and throw, so that we can beat both instead of guessing. So that the opponent can be forced to stop (by baiting us) instead of his mix-ups being unavoidable. So it’s a mindgame possibility we would gain : opponent would have to mix-up between throw/frame-trap and nothing (respect), instead of just throw/frame-trap. And that possibility would still be weakened by the need of a charge. =)
Regular anti-airs do fully apply aside of knockdown, to prevent opponents getting in. We already have air to air possibilities regarding that, which is an acceptable weakness considering the strenght of our ground game. =)
Couldn’t you just give it lower-mid body invul and achieve a good deal (though not all) of the same anti rushdown issues.
Or improve backflips.
Backflip is a dead end.
Invincible frames on ex st are fine.
How would this differ from putting invincibility on the entire move? According to you they’ll have difficulty targeting the upper body because of the jump arc.
And how exactly would you make back flips viable against rush down any more than the current versions?