Bah, Ammy can just direct her air dash downard…you want to know who has the worst air dash ever in UMVC3?
Hsien-Ko, she can’t even BLOCK now.
If you ever listen to their sound clips, Wesker and Phoenix are probably the two biggest shit talking characters in the game.
LOL@people still comparing ammy to hsien-ko after allllll this time.
Yea, we know she’s bad, she’s very very bad, but just because she’s bad doesn’t mean a functioning character should get salt thrown her way while worst offenders are buffed.
Haha, nah MODOK for sure. “cry for me” Imitates magnetos voice “come to me”
Ammy had one of the most overpowered air-dashes in Vanilla. She could block and advance forward without giving a fuck. Which is pretty ridiculous given the fact that she could counter zoning with her size and projectile counter. It’s not surprising that they nerfed it, but Ammy can at least make her dash safer.
It’s not that bad…
Pfffft…
“Please, try harder.”
-Albert Wesker
Or, rather
“Shuch a feeble attempt.”
~ Mags
“Tst, tst, tst Piece of cake”
“You think that was bad? it could be much, much worse”
-Jean Grey
they nerfed phoenix by putting hawkeye and dr strange’s supers in the game
For Dark Phoenix yeah. Any character that’s worth talking about can snap in regular Pheonix and kill her off before the 5 now. Doesn’t even need to be specialized anymore. I think that’s why Filip Champ is gravitating towards Ghost Rider in Ultimate because he knows if he gets hit Phoenix is gonna get her red head ass pushed in with mix ups until she cracks and dies. No more self assists (salty balls) and multiple actions on snap ins is soooo bad for regular Phoenix now.
His idea is most likely to play a character that can just spend long period of not getting hit and building meter from full screen because Phoenix will be lucky if she survives one snap now.
(Sigh. So many videos to catch up on UMvC3 and it isn’t even out yet.)
Oh merciless Kagutsuchi. Some people are still bitching about Amaterasu’s necessary air-dash fix like it’s anything but a minor weakening to her at the benefit of making the game slightly less stupid for characters who have to fight her? Sigh. Figures. I guess it’s appropriate that some of the bitch’s users would bitch.
But, seriously, cheap shots aside, can’t she change weapons in the air now? Unless those make her plummet like a rock after using them like some aerial specials do (and I seriously doubt they do), considering how quickly those come out and recover, she should be far less affected by the air-dash fix than most other characters with air-dashes. This is especially true since a lot of those characters were decidedly already worse than her. (cough Morrigan cough Hsien-ko cough Spider-man cough)
You just won’t be able to fly across the screen on auto-pilot and keep pressing :f:+:h: until you connect because half of the cast can’t do shit about it, especially when backed by (beam/drone/Doom) assists. You’ll just have to actually think when you’re using Amaterasu now and use more than her initial form (and only for its dumb-ass, easy mode combos) besides for DHC glitches like how players such as Clockwork and X-Ray already do.
Oh, the divinity!
Also by putting Strider Hiryu’s Vajira (assist) in the game and having it go above people regardless of whatever they are and ground-bounce.
Also also, with all the meter-stealing things added and the overall nerf to meter-building. I think the only thing that’s benefited Phoenix system-wise is Air X-Factor and even that’s arguably “meh” because of how X-Factor is now one of the shorter ones.
That said, Phoenix is probably still usable on point. It’s just that people besides Clockwork (who isn’t even going to use her anymore) are going to have to learn more than super-jump and try to spam homing fireballs if they want the privilege of using Dark Phoenix. …Of course, this means people probably just stop use her entirely since people are lazy, but, meh, that’s for that better of the game maybe.
I guess that just means stream monsters and other idiots will just move on to hating on whomever becomes top tier next a lot more quickly.
I don’t think it’ll even be worth it to make Phoenix useable because all of the stuff that made her remotely creative on point (salty balls that don’t go away when you hit her) got blown up. Now she basically has to have strong assists still alive still backing her up to even have any real scare factor and people will just be swinging shit at her to kill her off if she doesn’t have five. Even if she does have 5 they’ll just be swinging shit to get her popped and going without any salty balls regulary protecting her. Not being able to super jump up and fire balls down diminishes most of what made her actually a pain to fight. She’s just not creative enough of a character IMO without the Vanilla strength salty balls for it to matter.
Might as well just pick a standard team or somehow form a Phoenix team that will almost never get hit before 5 bars.
The biggest nerf IMO to Phoenix is the meter gain. You have fucking ages to snap in Phoenix, TAC don’t give Phoenix braindead amounts of meter gain, and she doesn’t get as much meter herself.
Which is going to make life for the entire cast easier.
(All this Phoenix talk reminds me: Wasn’t the amount that a snapback’s “partner cannot be called” state increased because snapbacks are slower now?)
Well, down TACs still give her a full bar and that’s pretty much all Phoenix players ever did anyway, but, yeah, I guess meter-nerf would somewhat affect TACs as well if only because of the number of hits TACs can allow for.
I’m not sure I entirely agree if you’re stating all her “creativity” is purely because of her super-jump homing bullshit when she half of her moveset is literally never used because :d:+:l: and :qcb:+:m: and :qcf:+:h: after “Dark Phoenix Rises” pretty much destroys 90% of the vanilla cast without much though. Clockwork is literally the only person I’ve even seen use her flight mode, for instance.
Don’t get me wrong, I definitely agree that she’s really weakened (and I’ve said before I think she got overnerfed, if only because the I don’t like the idea of a “gimmick” character, whether’s on point or an assist) to that point there are likely better options in some instances. However, she still has excellent normals and a combination of options no other character has. If Doctor Strange could air-dash, then, yeah, she’d probably be obviated in regular form, but he can’t, so she isn’t (IMO). She’ll still be “bad” (or, at least, way worse/way less braindead) before she turns now, at least if you’re being a predictable sod who does pretty much nothing but superjump :qcf:+:h:. However, Dark Phoenix is still probably top tier–even you still think so–and it should have never been that easy to become her in the first place.
Besides, if people are just going “swing” at her so recklessly (instead of patiently chipping her to death with her even more abysmal life), then I’m sure there are assists to seize on that to make them pay. Just because Jean doesn’t get two bars and some change for doing combos anymore doesn’t mean she can’t mess you up.
Yeah I just don’t see how her moveset without Vanilla salty balls is really going to scare anybody or really take down similarly strong characters on point. If she had all of those tools you mentioned plus the old salty balls…I’d say she’d have what she needs to fight for long periods of time. Without that though I just don’t see what she’s going to do that’d even remotely scary without assists unless she turns Dark.
My point is that the salty ball nerf makes it way too easy for Phoenix to get messed up. If you want to prove that Phoenix can do damage by herself you might as well just put her on point with assists. Then we would actually see it. Though people have to make sure Phoenix gets the 5 and when you’re trying to do that regular Phoenix is weak as hell now. Can barely protect herself from a snap now and with the health nerf will die super duper fast before the 5 and then u wont be able to show people your cool regular Phoenix stuff cuz she’s DEAD. Which even if she stays alive…she better have an character left with a strong assist or people are just gonna be swinging.
(Gods damn it. I really need to proofread.)
Yeah, I agree. It’s really risky to use her, especially since the health nerf (and Phoenix Rage losing its invincbility) weren’t really necessary on top of some other, more minor crap. (I think one of the Overdrives got made unsafe[r]? I have to check.) It’s always been risky to use Phoenix, though, even when she could fly away from half of the cast without literally anything to fear.
That said, I was arguing for her on point and pointing out that, yes, she’s going to fail hardcore if people try to play her like vanilla, Courage the Cowardly Dog Phoenix still; she’s also going to thus fail even more than other characters because she got most nerfs besides Wolverine and maybe Wesker and she has a literally a third of their life, which is why the “Phoenix is trash/unusable/garbage now” comments seemed rather rushed.
Personally, I’d like to try using her in UMvC3 myself, but I already know that I’m not good enough to avoid getting hit while trying to rush down as it is, much less avoid getting chipped to death (by triple-jumping Devil Trigger Dante), so…yeah. Something to work on after a bunch of other characters, maybe.
She’s still better of than Hsien-ko and a couple of others even in UMvC3, though; I say this because I’m still operating under the impression that you think she’s going to be deadlast still even though I now know you don’t “order” tiers within themselves.
“You are not unlike an ant, fighting the sun”
-Galactus
Yeah, watching the Ultimate Norcal stream last night showed how just how significant the meter reduction in UMvC3 is compared to Vanilla. There were multiple instances where FChamp came in with Phoenix left and he still had yet to get to 4 bars or just barely got to 4 bars despite gaining meter off his two other characters along with getting a few combos in with Dorm/Sent. You can easily get 2-3 bars just off your characters dying alone in Vanilla, ESPECIALLY if you had someone with seven-digit health like Wesker.
EDIT: You know, I just realized something. Wouldn’t Strange’s 7 Rings of Raggador hyper counter Phoenix feathers since they’re considered projectiles? If so, Strange looks to be a miserable matchup for Phoenix when you combine that with his Spell of “Don’t press buttons from full-screen” Vishanti.
(I still can’t get over people bitching about Amaterasu’s movement being fixed–heh–when she has Okami Shuffle to fuck over other air-dashes on reaction.)
Lol at the current front page topic being “Who is Vergil?” Like enough people weren’t fapping over Other Dante as it is. [/hate]
But, seriously, do people not know this by now? I mean, I have nothing against Keits being thorough. It just seems…odd/late. [/filler]
Yeah, it should if Wesker’s projectile counter worked on them in vanilla. (This is always why I rolled my eyes when no one seemed to use it despite how early it came up due to…Caulderath?) So I pointed this out in the initial Doctor Strange thread; he’s probably as bad match-up for Dark Phoenix as he is Arthur and as Strider is normal Phoenix, which is kinda hilarious
It’s one of the many reasons Doctor Strange is so great beyond those “dem manlegs” as DevilJin 01 has put it.
Have Ammy user’s really complained about her nerfs? What the flying fuck? She got buffed. It’s like F. Champ extensively complaining about Dorm’s carpet when he abused and destroyed with his buffs the whole fucking tournament. Unless you use Tron, nerfs should not be a complaint to be coming from your mouth.
The only nerfs I really look forwad to are to Wolverine’s invincibility (Though I feel he should have some on… perhaps the :l: version) and X-factor, since you can attribute a mass amount of bullshit and stupidity to X-factor, and even with that said, it feels like I am criminally understating things. Why that shit hasn’t been nerfed out of the game is beyond me.
Another random nerf that saddens me is Skrull’s voice nerf. What’s up with the lack of love inferno? It’s actually good characterization. Ugh. Whatever.
Well I was loving phoenix nerfs but she still seems viable as F champ made apparant. The one action per jump isnt really fixing the problem… all she has to do is fireball then fly and she gets another fireball. The main problem is her ridiculously high damage output, Instant teleports, the mashing on crouching L’s, and the traps. To really nerf phoenix IMO they should nerf her teleport or make her unable to teleport if she has something on screen like a trap or a fireball