Has anyone experienced with TK smart bombs? They recover extremely fast similar to a super low TK unibeam. I actually stumbled upon this while trying to position myself to call missiles or drones (forgot which) in a match.
Also what normals seem effective after an assist-caused wall bounce? Cr.m? I might work on this IM/RR tech…
j.M or st.H are all good normals for confirming off the Log Trap wall bounce. cr.M has a strange habit of having the opponent zoom right over your head if you try to confirm from the wall bounce.
As for TK smart bomb, I actually use them in some of my throw combos. TK H smart bombs give enough hit stun for a relaunch in some combos.
Been doing this since Vanilla and posted a bunch of videos about it. It’s not as good in Ultimate anymore because smart bombs have less hitstun and the grounded versions recover faster than they did in Vanilla anyway.
So I guess taking off from the tier thread, from a crouching L into the krispy kreme combo I got barely 700k. I think it was more like 690k.
Off of the same confirm, Magneto gets 800k in the corner, 750 realistically elsewhere.
And yeah, adding assists to ironman, I got like 900K at one point. But I couldn’t find a really good neutral game assist that also extended his combos optimally. And to be practical, Ironman sucks on point and belongs 2nd so you can use dat beam or dat ball of hurt. With 1 assist I got 800k (I assume his corner carry is good enough to insure that I’ll be in the corner most of the time). So he needs 1 assist to improve his awful neutral game and extend his combos. But if I use the assist to mix people up (sent drones or plasma beam in this case), he doesn’t get it in combos.
Am I missing something? I can’t find anything redeemable about Mr.Stark. I’m just doing the normal krispy kreme off of a cr.L with the normal assist extension (smart bombs, repulse blast, spread, smart bombs, cannon) and that shit is weak. 600k+ before super, but the super is doing no damage. Shinquickman said it did 230k at max scaling with mashing, but I’m mashing at the same speed I do with Magnetic Tempest and getting way more damage from that super.
I guess its character loyalty. I play Iron Man because well… I like the character and I read alot of his comics.
In terms of the game, once he has alot of momentum, its hard for people to stop him. He also has alot of neat tricks that I like (j.S crosses up alot and is a great hitconfirm). Repulsor blast… Unibeam is a great assist to any team. Basically dont play him looking at his faults but rather play him for what he is. (690k damage aint bad at all.)
I get over 860k with my Drones + Quick Work extension…are you sure you are doing it right? Are you omitting hits somewhere? The KK bnb fully mashed does 748,300k by itself.
Is it off a cr.L? Adding a j.S I got more damage obviously, but otherwise, nah, 690 or 700K. I’m doing this exact combo minus the starter:
[media=youtube]I7S2beTBzHo[/media]
that one uses a j.M and S + skips the cr.L for the maximum possible damage and still gets 725K, so it makes sense that I can’t break 700 consistently just doing cr.L, cr.M, st.H.
Adding assists isn’t the issue. I got 900k, which is fantastic, with assists. Its solo damage and finding a single good assist attached to a good character to use in the neutral game that also extends combos when I need to thats the problem.
Also, if Iron Man just had Magnetos ground dash, that alone would push him up in tiers. There’s just so much you could do to this guy.
How many cr.L are you adding in the combo? More than 1 can scale the combo pretty badly. Also, what character were you using as a dummy? Small characters have a habit of avoiding some of the OTG smart bombs, which sadly reduces some of the damage output.
I average 720 on a non-corner combo with Mag blast loops. I get even less when I can’t combo into Hyper grav. Seems about the same as Iron man’s damage, really.
Plenty of good neutral assists exist that help IM in neutral and also extend IM’s combos. Tatsu, Beams (excepts Mags’), Shopping cart, Drones, Missiles. I woudn’t be surprised if others exist as well. In general, you don’t even need both assist to be good at neutral and extending combos either. Just 1 assist can do both, while the other can just help extend combos. For example, if you have Wesker/Iron man/Akuma, just use the gun shot assist. If you have Magneto/Iron man/Sentinel, use the Hyper grav assist. Heck, I don’t even think IM is always fully optimized with a good neutral combo extending assist all the time; that’s just an added bonus.
On the whole Proton Cannon vs. Magnetic Tempest issue. Proton cannon actually deals 200k dmg when fully scaled. Tempest deals 199 dmg fully scaled. Hyper Grav deals damage after the super freeze from the tempest, which makes it seem like tempest is dealing 20 more points of dmg.
On IM vs. Magneto, I think the first mistake is trying to compare IM with Magneto in the first place. Both are 8-way dashing flight characters with beams, air bombing specials, and average damage output, and that’s where the similarity ends.
Mags is a more rush-down based 8-way dasher. His air dashes are one of the fastest and one of the best for avoiding ground based bs, approaching, mixing up, and staying on the opponent. His zoning is instant yet weak, meant mostly for disruption (hah). His Mag blast is good at keeping air space for a brief moment, but its lag makes it poor for constant raining. Over all, Mags’ rushdown game can easily be supported throught assists, while his zoning is there to keep his opponent in check from time to time.
IM is a more zoning based 8-way dasher. In the air, IM has low recovery smart bombs, unibeam, and big ass normals for a good portion of screen control. On ground level, he has unibeam for disruption, cr.H for block string safety and pressure, Repulsor blast to defend against air based zoning and rushdown, and box dash backed by one of his big ass normals. IM’s flight has low start up, lasts fairly long, and has a decent speed by itself, which makes it good for helping IM stay away from ground BS and just rain down w/ smart bombs. His tri-jump, is of course, slow starting, so its poor for mix ups. However, if IM ever finds his opponent in a crappy situation like being pressured by drones, he still has among the best high/low mix-ups in the game with his down air dash. By himself, IM’s zoning is annoying at best, but backed up by the right assists, IM can give major problems to most of the cast. With drones, IM can stay on the ground and protect sent with Repulsor>spread, which on hit, lands him a free combo thanks to the drones, and on block, gives him free pressure thanks to the drones. With log trap, IM can combo off his unibeam, make safer approaches from the air, make his cr.H pressure safer, and make his L/R incoming mix ups actually worthwhile. Over all, IM can supplement his zoning capabilities well with assists, while his rushdown is there only when his zoning pushes his opponents into a crappy situation.
As far as support capabilities, IM is overall a stronger support character than Magneto. He has unibeam assist, which is great for ANY character, Repulsor blast, which is good for any character’s incoming mixup and amazing for Firebrand, and Proton Cannon DHC/THC. Mags has disruptor, which is a really, really good assist for teleporters, but only teleporters. He also has better TAC combos, and a much better use of XF.
Since the game is evolving towards throwing lots of crap on the screen and converting off that crap, IM at least has some good footing. He has flight, smart bombs, unibeam to avoid all that crap, and with the right assists he can actually participate in doing the same crap fling>combo stuff. Mags will undoubtably always be a better point character, but IM’s definitely a capable character on the screen.
How do you use drones to extend his combos? I was playing around with it and couldn’t figure anything out.
Just send out the drones before you do a launcher and hit j.M>M>H>dH>S. The opponent should bounce off the drones as you come down, which lets you land a repulsor blast>spread. In the corner, you can even land 2 repulsor blast>spreads consecutively.
(Krispy Kreme or other ground combo) s.S+Drones sj.MMHdHS V (Drones hit) j.S V H Smart Bombs xx Proton Cannon
Of course this depends on the combo starter and the HSD and spacing but I’m sure with your combos you can get it to work.
Yeah what he said ^ 
does more damage just doesn’t look as baller IMO.
Don’t even bother comparing Magneto to IM.
Magneto can do everything IM can do except he can do it better. Because its angle, size of the projectile and the speed Magneto can move, Magnetic Blast is a far better zoning move than SB, and Magneto can easily follow up after it, IM need to be in specific position and air dash to even get an heavily scaled combo off SB.
They might have nerfed the discruptor, but the extremely fast start-up of the move means he will still hit you from full screen in a second, whereas Uni-beam and c.h has slow start up and easily telegraphed. Disruptor will stop whatever you have in mind and force you to block, and good luck blocking if he called an assist at the same time. He also has the new gravity move to control space, making some match-ups even more dominate.
Magneto’s j.hp also hits everywhere and crosses up, which protects him from any approach and double up as OS throw (easy for him to combo), something IM’s j.h can’t do because of its narrow hit box. IM’s crappy air dash and narrow j.h stops him using the cheap h OS air throw and easy to dash under and kill him, which is big for someone with poor mobility.
Disruptor is an extremely good assist, because its very fast start-up and hits high up. This means there is a good it will hit people jumping at Magneto. He also comes out very far behind the point character, same can’t be said about Uni-beam.
The more I use both, the less reason I find IM should be in the team compare to Magneto. IM is not completely hopeless, but he is just very poor in many areas which overshadows his strengths. As it is right now, he is just an assist character that is pretty useless on point.
When I did Drones extension in KK combo I would call them during the launcher, but calling them earlier may help with the timing.
Just doing KK combo with a drone call during the launcher, and after I spiked them on top of drones I would do Repulsar Blast xx Spread, H Smart Bombs, Proton Cannon and I would get close to 790 damage.
Iron Man’s good combos deal 75% on average, he’s not really lacking at all in the damage department.
I wasn’t comparing Mags to Iron man, I was contrasting them.
Mags can’t rain on people with Mag blast, nor can he use his zoning all that well while flying. The angles on Mag blast is also much harder to control than smart bombs thanks to Mags moving around. Also, if you’re landing a combo after Mag blast, you’re not really using it for zoning as much as a jump-in with a big fat downward hit box.
With assists, unibeam can be built around as to actually do combos after it. Disruptor cannot. The best you can do with disruptor is call a lockdown assist, knockdown with disruptor, and go for mix up afterwards. That’s still really good, but it’s no free combo. Also, Unibeam is at a better advantage after block than disruptor, it can’t be crouched by most characters, and it can easily confirm into a Lv. 3 on hit. Disruptor is obviously much better at stopping someone immediately from full screen away, but Unibeam is still no slouch at doing the same. It has 11f of start up IIRC, which isn’t as significant as it sounds.
As for crH, yeah it has like 20 f. of startup, but it’s still a move not many characters can do much about from a distance considering IM is crouching to avoid any high projectiles, he’s extremely safe on block, and he can cancel it. Plus, the rocket has a crap ton of durability.
You’re looking at their air normals in a rush down magnifying glass. Of course, Mag’s normals look much better in this case. In a neutral scenario, when everyone’s still footsying around, things aren’t so derpy for Mags. For one, IM is much better at covering himself right below him with ADD>j.S from super jump height. Mags can’t do as well with any of his normals, nor does his airdash allow him to do this so easily. Also, since IM’s ADD is so fast, he can use j.H or j.dH to cover a big area right in front of him in a single dash.
Correction, disruptor is an extremely good assist, but ONLY for teleporters and fast cross up characters. Even then, disruptor isn’t even all that good for all teleporters and fast cross up characters (X-23 and Wesker, for example). Unibeam, OTOH, is an extremely good assist for some characters, and at least good for EVERYONE ELSE. Disruptor is easier to cover since it’s much faster and Mags is behind the point char all the time, but it also doesn’t do much for many characters.
You’re commiting the same mistake Robotic made earlier. You’re trying to fit IM in every scenarios Mags does well, and seeing that he doesn’t fit, judge him as an inferior Mags.
I can’t agree with this when I see F.champ run away and rain blasts and missiles on people all day and they can’t do much about it even with Viper and Zero. SB can’t be spammed like this because it has slow start-up and IM stays stationary.
Magneto’s ADD h or s is almost as effective and hit behind him unlike IM. His ADD isn’t so much slower, so I can’t see how this could be a significant advantage for IM.
The point is, its not really worth having IM in the team when other characters can do many things similar but better. At the moment I am experimenting RR, Dante, Magneto. While Uni-beam is far easier for RR to combo off and set stuff up, Disruptor can be just as effective to set up high/lows but just not as easy to combo off and while I can still get in with it and Rocket Skates. But that alone is not enough to gain a place in the team for poor IM, especially Magneto can get more out of log trap and weasel shot than IM.
The only thing I miss from IM is 1 frame beam DHC and the pure pain of Proton Cannon. IM could have been as good as Magneto if he had his old air dash (and he still wouldn’t be as fast as Magento, but its good enough). It would have been much easier for him to stay mobile and pick his spots, too bad Capcom gave him good buff but took away the most important thing.
I never realized how easy it was to get hit confirms using air smart bombs. I just had like three comeback without even needing x-factor to win.
IM definitely has better normals and mixups than Mags. After playing him in like 200 games today, I see the merit in IM. He’s still ass at zoning (I really think smart bombs are ass compared to blasts) and approaching, but playing him like a grappler, where you just superjump across the stage and slowly dash at people, has really helped. Getting out of the Magneto mindset of “airdash everywhere, go for mixups all the time” helps ALOT.
Magneto with repulsar blast is dirty too.
Shinquickman out of curiosity what is your current team? Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon/?? ? I’m thinking of trying a Iron Man/Rocket Raccoon/Deadpool team.
He’s actually pretty effective played defensively. I get a lot of success just using Smart Bombs and Unibeam and confirm off ADDB j.H or j.S into KK combo. Which is why I’m thinking Rocket Raccoon will be better than Sentinel on my team since I play the character for defensively.
All you’re really saying is Magneto has better synergy with H missiles than Iron man does, which I won’t deny.
From SJ height, not really. Mag’s air dash travels too short a distance for his normals to cover him well. If you do this from SJ height, Mag will miss even against most standing characters.
And my point is that IRON MAN IS NOT MAGNETO. Magneto can fit on more teams because he is a great point character, a great anchor, and he provides an assist a number of high tier characters just happen to find really good. IM, OTOH, is a supporting character. You’re either gonna have to put IM in 2nd slot and supplement him with the anchor assist, or bite your lip and use him just for his assist on 2nd or 3rd slot.
I play Magneto (Hyper Grav)/Iron man (Unibeam)/Raccoon (Log trap). My focus is to tick people off with UB magnetic blast with a log trap called, and using Unibeam for much the same purposes Sentinel force serves for Mag normally. If Mag dies or I DHC/TAC to IM, I just fly around w/ IM, call log traps, and ADDF j.H/j.S when they come at a certain distance, or spam S bombs. Sorta like a ghetto version of what Kusoru did with Joe and divekick+log trap but with the added benefit that I can combo off a unibeam+log trap. I also get the added bonus of not getting shafted if my team order gets fudged with a snap back.