Definitely a little bit of a debate going on upstairs…
=P any opinions? Or do you like to stay out of stuff like this?
Nah…this is the stuff I usually get into. I was just reading it all first. A lot of this thread just reminds me of the Vanilla Doom thread really (Doom can’t cancel his dash into normls, he feels so awwwkward blah blah) but any way…
Firstly (I hate when character forums do this)…don’t act like you shouldn’t talk about other characters in another character’s thread. It’s a team game. You can’t win without your teammates so talk about your teammates. You never know what you can learn about a set of characters that you can translate to your characters. I play for my team, not just my characters.
The way I see it being able to safely DHC into Iron Man is a bit of an overrated issue because the fact that Iron Man has a beam super (with 2 angles mind you) means you still one frame DHC blow up anybody who’s moving around easily. Normally Iron Man’s super is only fast if you hit them with the point blank gun part (which technically is the fastest starting super in the game at that range) but of course from farther range it has the 30 frame stall before the freeze where you can just hit Iron Man with anything.
That all goes away if you just DHC into the proton cannon. It’s still unsafe on block but as long as you DHC into the proton cannon the beam comes out on the very first frame. Allowing it to be a 2 meter punish that safely gets Iron Man in as long as you know they are doing something that they can’t block during or can’t invincible super you with. The fact that it has two seperate angles means there’s almost nothing on the screen unless it’s behind you that can avoid the hit box of the beam. If they’re towards the ground use regular beam, if they’re more airborne use the angled beam.
Plus safe DHC’s ARE NOT the only way to get a character safely into the match. They’re good but they spend 2 meters when there’s definitely ways to get characters in without burning all that meter. Raw tags are hella good in this game and if you back them up with a special move or a super move from another character that clears the screen…you can get your character in with one meter spent at most or sometimes none at all spent.
if you wanna talk about synergy with Dante…Dante can get practically everyone in the game safely in the match with one meter or even no meter (no meter if you’re feeling risky). Especially if they don’t have some quick screen clearing beam super (which even then it won’t kill you if they somehow snipe you), you can do Dante’s hysteric missiles (qcf+H) and then cancel into DT (he’s invincible for part of the super any way) and then just raw tag Iron Man in. If you’re feeling lucky you can wait for the recovery of the hysteric (if you know they don’t have an immediate option to beat it) and get Iron Man in safely without spending any meter at all.
I agree with this. It’s part of the reason I decided to pick up Iron Man as anchor. Doom is a very underrated anchor and I’ve definitely been able to come back on whole teams easily with anchor Doom. The issue is Doom is missing one thing as anchor that Iron Man has which is the ability to deal with stuff from the air. Doom can stay up in the air all day against like Wesker anchors (I don’t even care about Wesker anchor when using Doom, can lame him all day and then just S dive trade into dead Wesker). His main issue comes when he has to clear out other characters doing the same thing. Akuma/Morrigan/Trish sitting on meters towards the top corner of the screen is just too much of a problem for him as anchor. He has nothing that shoots straight from the air except for j.H gun which is nothing more than a one point durable projectile.
Iron Man has multiple options including all of his sword like air H normals, the ability to shoot his beam straight at them (Akuma doesn’t have anything at all that shoots straight from the air, can only tatsu spam which you stuff out with H normals), smart bombs and if you are on the ground you can AA them with repulsor blast/spread. In XF I’m sure I can make easy TOD combos off a landed L repulsor blast.
They’re both better anchors than people give them credit for IMO. Especially with the powerful assists they provide for the neutral game also.
You realize Wolverine (one of the best characters in the game) doesn’t have a proper wave dash right? Even Doom the closest he gets is having to jump and then ADDF back down which means he can get air thrown during his ghetto wave dash. Even the top characters have their own issues with dashing. With Wolverine you’re better off learning plink dashing (most top Wolvies plink dash since doing wave dash will turn on berserker charge).
With Iron Man his wave dash isn’t THAT bad. The fact that he can wave dash period is a step up from Doom ground movement wise. Technically Doom has to be in the air anytime he moves forwards which means he always can be one frame air thrown blown up on his dashes if people wanna guess on it.
Iron Man’s wave dash isn’t that bad at all it’s just Iron Man can’t cancel his dash until the 11th frame so you just have to leave a bit more of a gap in your wave dashes. Not the biggest deal in the world since you can still cancel your dash into normals which Doom still can’t do.
Overall with Iron Man you’re best off learning to plink dash like Wolvie also. Iron man’s plink dash travels like 3 wave dash lengths in the time it takes to do one dash. Once you get plink dash down Iron Man’s ground movement is a lot better.
Very interesting stuff, concise statements n support really made me rethink some stuff and I guess IM is solid… Just don’t like him without a variety of assists…im to anal about the way I play this game tbh.
Also IM can sjf then addf j. M for a cross up overhead while Coldstar is hitting from a decent range away.
Yo-ho
I feel like IM anchor is only good if it is one on one. He has a rough time opening people up without assists, although he can deal a lot of chip in xfactor, but by the time he taken out one character xfactor would have ran out. I think his best spot is second, so other characters can open people up for him, bring him via TAC and DHC for big damage. And he will still at least have one assist available, when he is in there. Especially if they xfactor (something usually happen on second character against second character), IM can run and waste their xfactor all day from almost every character.
I am not a fan a level 3 xfactor comeback anyway, I feel like it is a just retarded mechanic, not something reliable, unless your last character is Strider.
Yes I know that, but Wolverine have other options to close ground that is as fast as a wave dash. I think stay on the ground is bad for IM anyway. He should be flying around because his air moves are much better and that 11 frame gap on the dash is really bad when people are jumping and teleport all over you.
Well if you’re not a fan of the level 3 XF then I can definitely see why you try to build your team up so good from the front. Which is the best way to build up your team since the game is a lot about whoever kills first gets momentum to kill the rest of the way. You always wanna be the first one to kill in any fight because you bring it down to 3 vs. 2 and get a free welcome mix up that can greatly maim or kill the 2nd character and then they’re stuck dealing with anchor. Luckily Dante gives added ways to get Iron Man in safely without the 1 frame DHC method so you’re good to go on that also.
With the way my team is set up X-23 has the best frames of all the characters I play so I feel most comfortable playing her first so I can have the poking advantage from the start of the fight. Basically the idea is to either kill the opponent (don’t really have any TOD combos but X-23 is so reset/mix up heavy you can make up), and the bigger deal is to build up for dirt nap on bigger health characters so I can get their second character out of there before they even come in. Usually lower health characters are put up first because of their point abilities so that’s not even something to really worry about.
If that fails as long as Dante survives the welcome mix up he’s still coming in with a great assist backing him. I haven’t really gotten Iron Man anchor down as well as I did Doom anchor but once I do I feel like I’ll be fine off getting a kill on at least 2 characters. When I was using Doom anchor he was never really an ideal anchor for killing 3 people down but I still could take down a whole team often enough because he can build the meter to TOD you easily if he gets you in the corner without XF also. Plus his ability to dash through advance guards is a rare trait as anchor. Long as I can get a similar level of effectiveness with Iron Man anchor (he gets faster/stronger, that’s good enough to kill down 2 people without too much effort) then I should be good.
Plus the overall idea is that Jam Session assist works great for Iron Man so I can always switch Iron Man in so I can basically choose between anchors. Mainly since Dante is probably also a slept on anchor although I prefer the way he works with an assist. I’m comfortable with 8 way air dash style characters as anchor because I like their pressure options and versatility without assists (like having flight, dash cancel tools to deal with advance guards etc.).
Yeah, I am a strong believer of “if you are down, you are down”, but Capcom keep adding comeback mechanic to give people chances (I really like the DHC glitch and level 1 xfactor in MVC3, but in UMVC3, the glitch is gone and level 1 is a bit wasteful while level 3 remains pretty powerful). I feel Hawkeye is a semi-decent anchor if my opponent have spent their xfactor or they have a character with bad match up against Hawkeye, such as Sentinel and Akuma.
I think with my team, IM can still benefits greatly from the assist of my other two characters, especially when he is on his bike. I can do some tricks and score big damage with the Jam Session. I am still adjusting to this IM and make sure this meat shield can fight back or at least go down swinging. I actually got quite a few happy birthdays with the 1 frame DHC, xfactor, Proton Cannon again (or launch into combo if I am confident), when Dante is almost down and they gone in too hard with their assists.
Most important discussion… Favorite color gogogogo
I use the 3rd color… Idk y
IM 3/Doom 5/Sent 2
IM 3/Doom 6/Ammy 3
I definitely like the gold man the best #5.
Classic Yellow and Red, #6 Grey and Yellow and the Grey and Red from Vanilla (does he even still have this?). I’m not a fan of the single color suits.
Blue is always the best.
Come on dude, let’s call a spade a spade, Iron Man’s ground movement is awful. I always feel like I’m taking my life into my hands any time I do a ground dash.
My favorite way to get around with him is to fly. And always be ready to throw out that Unfly. Even if you’re airdashing around or whatever, a quick Unfly will stop it and let you block.
Toughest part about it is remembering to unfly off an airdash down forward into a normal. Just hanging there flying at point blank in front of them while your air normal recovers is no fun.
Thankfully his air movement is… right…
Well, at least his zoning is… oh yeah…
I don’t really see how you can feel that way. Anytime you ghetto wave dash with Doom your life is on the line too because they can randomly uf+throw your dash since you have frames where you’re airborne and then you get comboed and/or die for doing your variant of a wave dash.
Plink dashing takes care of Iron Man’s ground movement pretty easy. His dash is excellent speed wise and the distance it travels and being able to cancel it on frame 11 is great for how far it travels. 2 or 3 plink dashes gets you across a lot of the screen pretty easy. I’m convinced he has better ground movement than Doom.
I know you use Thor too and that guy definitely acts like he has an elephant on his back when he’s wave dashing. It doesn’t move very far at all per dash and very clunky in general.
Thors wavedash may suck, but the character actually has alarmingly good mobility. Iron Man’s Wave dash sucks and he has crap mobility. The wavedash is but one piece of the puzzle, and yes, even if Thors wavedash is worse, IM’s is still crap.
Iron Man doesn’t need to wave dash with plink dashing. Anybody that can wave and plink dash like Iron Man is fine for ground movement because you can basically choose what you wanna do.
That basically gives him better ground movement than Doom or Thor IMO.
He still can’t cancel the first bit of his dash, Plink dashing or no, and that’s a huge weakness.
I don’t really think it’s that big of a deal considering Doom into any action other than a jump (which he can’t really attack from, just used so he can cancel into block and dash through advance guards). You gotta take risks moving forward with Doom also considering you can’t cancel into an attack action during any part of his dash.
Doom doesn’t have a good reason to dash on the ground though since he has great ariel mobility options.
Iron Man doesn’t so is ground dash is more relevant to his game than dooms.