Ultimate mvc3 iron man

[Curakill]

hm… generally my best approach is:

pop xf 3 walk/ dash towards foe

LOL!!!

ahem… i just had to.

as far as my thoughts on IM im saving them for tomorrow when i will play offline against one of the cities best marvel players. we’ll see how IM does. i havent tried out my theory fighter team offline yet.

-dime

If you are able, could you record those matches?

[Kei]

If you are able, could you record those matches?

I too would be eternally greatful if you could record those matches somehow, and put them up for us to see. I don’t care if it’s cell video, webcam, or someone drawing them frame by frame lol.

wall of text

He is a challenge but I think he has room to grow, and of course it’ll always be a match-up people are unfamiliar to fight…

He has great pokes when used properly - if his air normals looked like swords instead of proton beams, people would be all over him.

I 100% agree with you on that, I really don’t think he’ll ever be truly popular to the masses as anything other than an assist (fine with me), but if the group of us that do actually use him put in the time…he can be so very very strong. It just takes A LOT more work since there are so few of us dismantling him.

One thing to consider is something like Normal Jump back, Airdash Up+Back, then Smart Bomb, then Fly. At this point since you haven’t super jumped, you can still call assists normally while raining Smart Bombs down on both them…

For the past 2 weeks or so I’ve been learning to add the jumping up air dash + assist call into my routine. I don’t know why I never thought of that in the first game, but thankfully I saw it somewhere in the guide…and it just slapped me in the face! I’ve mostly been using it to either jump and dash straight up, or to jump forward into a dash up forward.

Either way I get the assist call while covering them with smart bombs, likely distracting the opponent from the assist on the ground (man I LOVE that ability), and I can either stay up with with flight or depending on the assist fall down with either j.S or j.H/d.H. I’ve been using it a little bit after a knockdown to either look for a chance to crossup or to push them toward the corner lately. It’s all still rough since it’s a new idea for me though I feel pretty dumb for not remembering I can dash straight up lol.

My own fault, in the previous game I may have HAD an 8 way airdash, but I was really only using 3 directions from it routinely. That is very much not the case now that my eyes have been ‘opened’.

Another thing is to cancel his :d::h: into Flight, or Repulsor Blast (if they jumped or started to air dash in), or Light Unibeam if you see an assist pop out. You can also call an assist while throwing a :d::h: and then Fly and move in off that.

If you cancel a ground normal into Fly, you only have to gain a small amount of air before you can airdash with him.

His c.H cancelled into whatever is something that’s extremely high on my priority list, due to it’s fast recovery, and it’s excellent frame advantage. I used the move in the first game, but we couldn’t cancel back then so I (like everyone else no doubt) am still looking for that perfect use for it into fly…like maybe blockstrings. (of course among other things)

He keeps much of his forward momentum when he lands. You can use it to slide into your pressure or throws the same way other characters can land and then dash into them. The flipside is that you have to airdash from higher up to build up that momentum. The mix-up is whether or not you go high, empty to low, or throw, or high xx fly xx high again, rather than how quickly you do it.

I started playing with this a short while back going straight into a throw. I was SHOCKED at how much more you can really ‘add’ onto your throw range by doing this, and how very fast you can throw after landing. This could be really good if used smartly remembering the lack of air dash blocking.

Lastly, I feel his :d::l: is a really important move that I doubt people are using (probably opting straight into :d:). It’s a 5 frame chainable low with a great hitbox. If you’re using the Krispy Kreme BNB, which you should be, you can chain 2 or 3 of these together before going into :d: and your combo will still work. There’s no excuse for not hit confirming that. And on block? Only -2, and you’re at a decent distance away from them.

I use his c.L like it’s going out of style! It’s got some pretty good range, rapidfire, and it’s very easy to confirm from because of that.

Even cancelling his :d: or :h: on block into Fly leaves you at a healthy advantage, so don’t be afraid to do that either to make your pressure safer.

That’s something I do need to work on, I really don’t feel as though I cancel into flight mode enough with him…it’s likely because of a few old autopilot things I’m still trying to purge from my mind, and brainfarts at times lol.

I HUGELY appreciate that ‘wall of text’, and hope more and more people start to put up walls like that very soon. I’m used to doing that in the Cap forums whenever I post, and feel it only makes threads more useful. (especially when it’s about something other than combos/glitches lol)

On another note, I was messing around a little bit with something last night. With the new hitbox on his j.S and the air dash speed change, I was experimenting with the low height air dash abilities we now have. I don’t know how truly good it is just yet, but it seems that doing an airdash up-forward (9+atk+atk) almost immediately from the ground, and then cancelling that immediately into j.S. You cover a range that will make sure that you can’t be dashed under, your S hits a long ways out, and you can of course cancel into smart bombs to increase the frontal area you affect. You also recover fast enough to land (you don’t go very high up at all when done properly) and move forward if you want to close the gap up.

You also have time to throw more smart bombs before landing if you’d like that instead, or unibeam, and you can still get off another air normal if you wish instead (like j.H to control even more range).

It’s not quite as fast as airdash back + j.S/j.H but it moves you forward at an interesting angle, covers a very nice area, and gives you a different look w/option to move forward.

Thoughts?

Kei

[Dime]

I too would be eternally greatful if you could record those matches somehow, and put them up for us to see. I don’t care if it’s cell video, webcam, or someone drawing them frame by frame lol.

I 100% agree with you on that, I really don’t think he’ll ever be truly popular to the masses as anything other than an assist (fine with me), but if the group of us that do actually use him put in the time…he can be so very very strong. It just takes A LOT more work since there are so few of us dismantling him.

For the past 2 weeks or so I’ve been learning to add the jumping up air dash + assist call into my routine. I don’t know why I never thought of that in the first game, but thankfully I saw it somewhere in the guide…and it just slapped me in the face! I’ve mostly been using it to either jump and dash straight up, or to jump forward into a dash up forward.

Either way I get the assist call while covering them with smart bombs, likely distracting the opponent from the assist on the ground (man I LOVE that ability), and I can either stay up with with flight or depending on the assist fall down with either j.S or j.H/d.H. I’ve been using it a little bit after a knockdown to either look for a chance to crossup or to push them toward the corner lately. It’s all still rough since it’s a new idea for me though I feel pretty dumb for not remembering I can dash straight up lol.

My own fault, in the previous game I may have HAD an 8 way airdash, but I was really only using 3 directions from it routinely. That is very much not the case now that my eyes have been ‘opened’.

His c.H cancelled into whatever is something that’s extremely high on my priority list, due to it’s fast recovery, and it’s excellent frame advantage. I used the move in the first game, but we couldn’t cancel back then so I (like everyone else no doubt) am still looking for that perfect use for it into fly…like maybe blockstrings. (of course among other things)

I started playing with this a short while back going straight into a throw. I was SHOCKED at how much more you can really ‘add’ onto your throw range by doing this, and how very fast you can throw after landing. This could be really good if used smartly remembering the lack of air dash blocking.

I use his c.L like it’s going out of style! It’s got some pretty good range, rapidfire, and it’s very easy to confirm from because of that.

That’s something I do need to work on, I really don’t feel as though I cancel into flight mode enough with him…it’s likely because of a few old autopilot things I’m still trying to purge from my mind, and brainfarts at times lol.

I HUGELY appreciate that ‘wall of text’, and hope more and more people start to put up walls like that very soon. I’m used to doing that in the Cap forums whenever I post, and feel it only makes threads more useful. (especially when it’s about something other than combos/glitches lol)

On another note, I was messing around a little bit with something last night. With the new hitbox on his j.S and the air dash speed change, I was experimenting with the low height air dash abilities we now have. I don’t know how truly good it is just yet, but it seems that doing an airdash up-forward (9+atk+atk) almost immediately from the ground, and then cancelling that immediately into j.S. You cover a range that will make sure that you can’t be dashed under, your S hits a long ways out, and you can of course cancel into smart bombs to increase the frontal area you affect. You also recover fast enough to land (you don’t go very high up at all when done properly) and move forward if you want to close the gap up.

You also have time to throw more smart bombs before landing if you’d like that instead, or unibeam, and you can still get off another air normal if you wish instead (like j.H to control even more range).

It’s not quite as fast as airdash back + j.S/j.H but it moves you forward at an interesting angle, covers a very nice area, and gives you a different look w/option to move forward.

Thoughts?

Kei

@ curakill and kei:

ill see what i can do as far as video is concerned. hopefully i can get someone to hold my phone for a few games. i’ll need to re-use my anchor IM team… i forget what it was … but a reasonable facsimile can be thought of. main problem is uploding them to youtube since i no longer live in the states… its weird.

@kei

i experimented with up/back airdash variants a while ago with jumping s but didnt see anything i really liked… i will relook at it, it seemed to have alot of lag when i was trying them.

-dime

[KJunk]

That’s something I do need to work on, I really don’t feel as though I cancel into flight mode enough with him…it’s likely because of a few old autopilot things I’m still trying to purge from my mind, and brainfarts at times lol.

It’s surprisingly really safe off normals because of how quickly you can cancel it. I’m trying to get in the habit of saving my airdashes in for once I’m flying so I can cancel them into blocks if needed, Vanilla style. But that also means I’ll have to get in the habit of unflying after a tridash j.M if I’m approaching that way. More technical stuff for IM…

Thoughts?

Sounds interesting! I’ll play around with it and see what happens. May try it with his j.S and j.2H

[Dime]

hmm… i played around with the jumping up/back s… yeah it is laggy on start, but it hits an impressive part of the screen. i like it.

ive been trying to optimize my IM airthrow combos and i realized something:

ironmans airthrow range is now REALLY good. i dont remember if it was as good in vanilla. but im convinced that airthrows are one of IM’s main ways to open up opponents.

heres what ive come up with as far as combos… these are optimized for damage AND ease of use/most consistent once timing is found:

easiest/least height finnicky of the three:

airthrow, L smartbomb, airdash mh, proton cannon (443k 75% meter loss).

decent but can be weird:
airthrow, L smartbomb, airdash h, (land) c.M, s.H, S, j.MMHS (land) proton cannon (501k 33% meter loss)

most meter gain, pays for itself, most height restrictive of the 3 (airthrow needs to be at or very near apex of jump)
airthrow, Lsmartbomb, airdash, j.M, j.U+H (land) jump J.MM,D+H,S (land) c.M, s.H, S, J.M,M,H,D+H, S (land dash) smarbombs xx proton cannon
(515k 5% METERGAIN)

-dime

[KJunk]

easiest/least height finnicky of the three:

airthrow, L smartbomb, airdash mh, proton cannon (443k 75% meter loss).

decent but can be weird:
airthrow, L smartbomb, airdash h, (land) c.M, s.H, S, j.MMHS (land) proton cannon (501k 33% meter loss)

most meter gain, pays for itself, most height restrictive of the 3 (airthrow needs to be at or very near apex of jump)
airthrow, Lsmartbomb, airdash, j.M, j.U+H (land) jump J.MMHS (land) c.M, s.H, S, J.M,M,H,D+H, S (land dash) smarbombs xx proton cannon
(515k 5% METERGAIN)

The last combo is really nice, but I think you’re making them harder than they need to be by worrying about the height restrictions. I typically just air dash down+forward, land, and then L Smart Bomb, then :d::h: them up into a combo. You have way more time then you think you do, seems to work from pretty much anywhere any height, and pushes them a long ways towards the corner (for assist extensions) in the process.

[Dime]

The last combo is really nice, but I think you’re making them harder than they need to be by worrying about the height restrictions. I typically just air dash down+forward, land, and then L Smart Bomb, then :d::h: them up into a combo. You have way more time then you think you do, seems to work from pretty much anywhere any height, and pushes them a long ways towards the corner (for assist extensions) in the process.

yeah, i remember you mentioning that combo… problem is im inconsistent with it for a variety of super weird reasons:

the combo doesnt seem hard to do at all… BUT, for whatever reason when i do the ADDF alot of times i get ADDB inexplicably… its weird as shit cause i know im inputting ADDF. in order to circumvent that i have to time the airdash a bit slower and usually it makes me wiff the smartbombs. so i start trying to do the smartbombs unnaturally fast after the ADDF and sometimes i get an air smartbombs after the ADDF… its all basically one execution problem that turns into multiple ones when i try to make up for it. it may be my controller, it may be me. but it seems fairly weird that it happens on both sides of the screen… i would think that if it were executional error it would only affect one side of the screen. one thing i naturally do is return the controller to neutral after doing the ADDF because its easier for me to do correct dp’s from a neutral state, whereas if iwere to hold forward theres all kinds of slop that could come out like dashes and stupid shit.

LOL all that just to say i cant do the combo consistently

but who am i kidding here… we all know that im going to be using the easy mode 4 hit opener to proton cannon 90% of the time anyways. i like consistency most.

most tasks out there just go straight into super when they land an airgrab (even combofiend) and that is a 100% meter loss. IM’s easy mode airthrow combo does more damage than tasks and builds 25% more meter… at the end of the day thats good enough for me.

but yeah man, if you can do that combo consistently more power to you! i would use it if i could.
also the “hardest” combo i put up there is actually pretty easy cause it just leaves IM in the perfect positions after everymove hits. the only reason why i would pick the easy mode combo over it is cause of the meter builders height restriction.

im generally one of those people that will do the same exact combo everytime i get a chance.

-dime

[Dime]

ok… so i didnt get any video… sorry… but ill do a quick play by play:

dime went, dime played, dimes ironman got blown the fuck up… (salty_)

meh, i think it was ironman. i also used chun and other characters and was doing much better… but everytime IM came on the screen i couldnt do anything… it doesnt help that im playing against nothing but new characters and super buffed characters (nemesis, ghostrider, felicia, cap) etc etc.

basically im is good in this newer version… problem is that hes TOTALLY eclipsed by the new cast and the old. hes all around but his all aroundness is bad. if you were to compare it, it would basically be a 3.5 in every category out of 10. instead of where all around characters should be which is around 6.5 all around out of 10 (im talking about attributes such as offense and defense ie ryu has an offense and defense of about 6.5 if i had to just put a number to it… yun/rufus would have offenses of like 9 or so and guile/sim would have defenses of like 8 or 9) but IM’s defense is completely killed by other character just being better at it. and his offense suffers the same thing i really cant at this point think of ANY reason to pick ironman over sentinel… sent does everything ironman is supposed to do in this game… just better.

lol i played against a nemmy that did nothing but spamm jumping tentacle while mashing vajra… i had no idea what to do about that. if i tried to take to the air i got hit by vajra… if i stood there i got hit by nemesis. tried to unibeam gets hit by nemmy as well tried to proton cannon as well as tried to repulsor blast.

later in the night i found that ironmans regualr jump S actually does decent against nemesis… but its just a drop in the bucket.

ironman basically plays and feels like a cross between a heavy and a pixie but unfortunately has none of the higher qualities of either class (heavys get ridiculously high priority jumping h’s that beat everything OFFENSIVELY, and/or groundbounce.

pixies get divekicks or teleports.

which basically means easy mode hitconfirms OR mixups and sometimes both. IM gets neither and cant keepaway the new cast for shit. i think IM is ass unless new tech is found.

-dime

[Duck_Strong]

Sorry to hear it man. I saw those last vids and you definitely know what you’re doing. I know exactly what you’re talking about though. I really wanted Iron Man to be good, but it just doesn’t look like it’s gonna happen. Capcom somehow made him worse :looney:.

[Dime]

Sorry to hear it man. I saw those last vids and you definitely know what you’re doing. I know exactly what you’re talking about though. I really wanted Iron Man to be good, but it just doesn’t look like it’s gonna happen. Capcom somehow made him worse :looney:.

i think you’ve got me mistaken for someone else? i dont have any vids up that i know of, atleast not for mvc3.

as far as IM is concerned, yeah man… i almost feel like crying cause try as i might and as much as i want him to work… i just dont think he does. funnily enough i think his design this time around is better than in vanilla… the problem is when its put up to comparison to other characters in ultimate that the cracks start to become super visible. i mean:

you want a beam assist? pick hawkeye or doom or mags theres are better.
you want spammable high priority air attacks? pick sent nemmy or ghostrider they all do it better.
you want tridashes? pick mags or storm.
you want beam keepaway? pick hawkeye.

you want left/rights? dont pick ironman.
you want high/lows? dont pick ironman.

the way i see it there are a few things that characters need in umvc3 to be good:

1. a teleport style move
2. an armored attack
3. a divekick
4. super high priority normals that take up gobs of space (swords are so broken since they arent considered projectiles and dont lose to projectile invulnerable/high durability moves unlike IM’s normals)
5. a ground bounce hitconfirm.

there are other things but the ones i listed are what basically leads others to call those characters that have them, DERP.

IM’s derp isnt there so he has to fight his way to respect and when you dont have the stuff listed its nigh impossible. to win with any sort of consistency.

but im ok with it cause it lead me to sent on point who i was having a field day with yesterday. if any of you like IM’s keepaway but actiually want to do it effectively i think sent is the robot to go to. sent sucks on anchor but in the battery position he has the skills to deal with other batteries.
its a natural fit for me since i dabble in sent and since chun was my main before IM. im now going to just run a team based on rowtrons mvc3 team which was sent chun mags. 'cept ima run sent chun (IM,doom,hawkeye) and basically see who whether i do better with hawkeye in anchor position or doom.

time to put tony away and play with the big boys.

-dime

[KJunk]

Seems like everyone’s giving up on him. I can certainly see why, though I’m not quite ready to move on yet. I’ve been having a lot of success with him so far. Sure, I may have had more success playing Wesker/Doom/whatever but it is what it is.

You’re right that he lacks the traditional broken stuff that has made for successful characters (teleports for left/rights, derpkicks). The best I can compare his style to is Ammy with her sword out when she’s playing keepaway. When she starts throwing out paper and j.:h:, some characters just fold.

I feel similar when I’m doing fly/unfly stuff with his j.:h:'s, using the :d::h: rocket cancels, etc. It’s just that those things all pay off less than assist+teleport, or Foot Dive.

[Destin]

I have something new that could really open up Iron’s man’s mixup game. I’m not sure if it’s enough to be a really solid tool yet, I’ll let you guys know after I vet it a bit.

(I still don’t think this version is close to as good as Vanilla though…)

[Zoogstin]

I’ve only been able to play the game for a small amount of time due to school but I have a feeling we’re just missing something. Think about it:

Ironman got SOOOOOO many good buffs. Buffs that we needed and are welcome. However, all this seems to be void by just one thing:

His new airdash.

This is just one thing. ONE THING!!! And judging from you guys it makes all of his buffs pointless because we can’t mix anybody up. I plan to go hard in training mode with him once I get more time, but surely there has to be something to justify his airdash. I refuse to believe that this one thing is totally screwing him over (cause as of right now it seems like it is).

Sure for some weird reason the new characters are giving IM more problems than the original cast did in MvC3 but I don’t think a lot of us would be dropping him if his airdash was the same.

[FlyingVe]

I haven’t given up yet, but I’m not gonna lie and say I think everything is okay with Tony.

Now he reminds me of MODOK, a bunch of really cool/great tools… and no way to use any of them. The airdash is simply preventing IM from being able to even use his new buffs.

[KJunk]

I’ll have a big post later tonight or this weekend with thoughts on how to address his issues. Not with like, a patch or something, but ways to address his issues with team setup, assists and changes in playstyle.

Normally I write off overly dependent characters in this game, but he has some unique pros (damage, jump h’s, up-close mix-ups, safety) that may make it worth the effort in my mind.

[Kei]

Yea, I can agree that in a way he kinda reminds me of Modok in this version. (I still refuse to play the fathead though even with his snazzy new purple ‘costume’ lol)

I still can’t give up on him yet (if ever), I know that my wins could rocket (pun intended) upward by using a different easy character in his slot, but I just don’t want to do that. He’s still just too cool, and too interesting to me right now. I’m 100% certain that he’s going to end up a specialist character (like the last game), and I’m totally good with that…even though it may very well take a long time to truly get the best from him.

I would cry ridiculous tears of joy if he got his airdash speed changed back, but I find it pretty unlikely, so I’ll just find a way around it. Team setup with him on point is going to be soooooooooooooooooooo important.

Can’t wait to see your next post KJunk.

Kei

[KJunk]

Alright here we go - here’s my take on it and what’s going to be necessary to see success with Tony.

The biggest changes from Vanilla to Ultimate are undeniably the airdash changes and loss of his double jump. There are a few new things his new ‘swoop’ airdash lets him do, but for the most part it limits him.

Here’s how it challenges him:
[LIST]
[]He can’t bully people with his tridash. It was a common sight to see someone in Vanilla tridash several times in a row into his j., just pushing someone back with his high priority air moves. The threat was of him going low at some point, leading into a big combo. He can’t do this anymore, so stop trying to do this if you are. Tony only gets one mix-up off his tridash now before he’s likely to be pushed out. Make it count.
[]It’s hard for him to chase people down. If someone is avoiding IM by dashing around in the air, it’s very hard for him to quickly move to their position and punish them. He has to commit to where he wants to go next, and that makes it hard to react to where someone’s going if they’re running away.
[]It makes it hard for him to run away. Because his airdash doesn’t pick up speed until the end, someone tridashing or airdashing at you can stay on top of you.
[]He’s unlikely to make big comebacks. Because he has trouble applying his own repeated mix-ups and chasing people down, he’s at a big disadvantage if he doesn’t have his assists to help mitigate those issues OR he’s forced into a position where he has to be the aggressor.
[/LIST]
So we have to try and mitigate that, and there’s three ways to do it. Assists, position on the team, and how we play him.
But first, why bother? I think he still has some perks to offer.
[LIST]
[]He does big damage and builds serious meter. He’s still capable of one-touch kills. He’s a strong battery for teams with 900k+ combos that build 2 bars and use 1.
[]It’s now easier to convert combos off confirmed hits. This is important since he’s less likely to be confirming hits off tridashes in your face, but more likely catching you with a poke into a combo. The new air dash makes air throw combos easier, too.
[]He’s capable of easily killing off his air throws and corner throws with XF1. This proved to be valuable in Vanilla, though we’ll see if it still is.
[]He has great mix-ups under the cover of an assist. His air down dash is ridiculously fast leading to high/low mix-ups that are pretty much anyone’s guess. He can also transition from those into fuzzy guard setups.
[]He has great mix-ups on incoming characters. Because of his air normals canceling into airdashes, he can do several mix-ups on incoming characters similar to what Vanilla Magneto could do. If you try to Advancing Guard him out, you can be thrown. Even if you do or don’t pushblock, he gets a high/low/throw mix-up after. Add in assists, and you get several mix-ups in a row.
[]He has tools to transition from his neutral game to offense. Being able to cancel his :d::h: Rocket into specials lets him cover assists and/or move in safely. Or he can use Smart Bombs to cover assists and then move in.
[*]He has great pokes for keeping someone at bay, or for poking out of pressure. His :d::l: is a 5 frame chainable low with a good hitbox and favorable hurtbox (he leans back and gets low). His :d: hits very far with strong priority. His j.:h:'s have immense hitboxes that option select throws. All of these pokes can lead to big damage or pressure.
[/LIST]
To have full access to those benefits, and to help offset the challenges so he doesn’t have bad match-ups, he has to have assists that both help his neutral game AND extend his combos. It makes for a very short list of characters that are reasonably playable with him.

That also means you have to avoid placing him second or anchor on a team. Placing him second or third means he’s more likely to be in a position where you’re playing from behind and he has to make comebacks. Placing him second or third means he won’t have the assists he needs to hold people in place, apply pressure, and extend combos. That’s when bad match-ups show up and his clunkiness becomes too much.

If he’s your point character, you aren’t put in a position where you have to chase down the opponent with him. This lets you take your time with his neutral game tools that are really strong, like his fly/unfly normals in the air, :d::h: rockets, smart bombs, unibeams, etc.

Here are some examples of the characters I think he works with right now.
[LIST]
[]Dante - Jam Session serves triple duty here. It helps stop characters that are trying to runaway in the air. It can push people out if you’re in a position to play lame against them. It’s a very easy-to-use combo extender for him. Dante is also incredibly strong all around, lets you safely DHC Iron Man out, and has tools (teleports) to handle characters that would give IM bad matchups.
[]Doom - All 3 assists can work with IM to extend combos and help him apply pressure. Hidden Missiles can also be used to help pin down runaway characters. Doom’s very solid, and easily DHC’s after Proton Cannon in the corner (which can be a problem for some).
[]Strider - Vajra isn’t a great combo extender for him, but it does let him hit confirm off long range :d::h: by canceling it into Unibeam. Strider hits and grounds, and IM can move in to OTG with smart bombs into a combo. Vajra also does double duty by pulling people out of the air so IM can catch up to them. IM also builds tons of meter so Strider can come in with Ouroboros ready to go.
[]Taskmaster - H Arrows help him apply mix-ups on the ground and can extend combos. Also, easily DHCs after Proton Cannon midscreen or corner.
[*]Rocket Raccoon - Log Trap can clear the air, keeps people from airdashing so much, and easily extend combos.
[/LIST]
And there are others. The basic idea is that your assists have to do double duty. They need to fill some gap in his neutral game and extend his combos, or they aren’t doing enough. In many match-ups you won’t need to pull someone out of the air that’s running away. But you don’t want to be stuck without the ability to do that if you need it.

So with all that said, I do think because of his strict requirements (not even counting execution), he would be considered low tier. But he’s also a low tier character that can kill your team in 3 touches, can apply great mix-up, and has a great neutral game. That seems contradictory, but there it is.

I think he’s still runnable in the second spot if you want to abuse his Unibeam assist with someone else, but then your anchor really needs to have an assist that can fill a lot of roles to keep him from having bad match-ups… something like Jam Session, Log Trap or Hidden Missiles.

Regarding his pressure game, stop tridashing into j.. People seem to miss doing that from Vanilla, when I never saw it open up anyone then either. I went back and watched some high level IM play from August and it never hit anyone. He almost always poked out of pressure into damage when he made openings.

He’s much better at setting up assists now to get his offense going. Covering an assist call with :d:h: canceled into Repulsor Blast, Unibeam or Flight is a much stronger way to setup a tridash or air down dash mix-up now.

Another thing to keep in mind is that advancing guard doesn’t work on Repulsor Blast, for whatever reason. This means if you’re using a slower assist like Drones, you can Repulsor Blast in their face while calling Sentinel, and then follow the drones in for a mix-up, and they can’t push you out during the safe setup. The Repulsor Blast is even likely to drag someone down to the ground if they were trying to chicken block or get away.

He also has other tricks like canceling into flight to negate pushblock, meaning he has ways to stay on top of someone without repeatedly tridashing. If you combine that with a low hitting assist (Deadpool’s, Felicia’s and Wesker’s low hitting assists all also serve as combo extensions), he has easy easy unblockable setups that are difficult to avoid. :d::h: + low assist, flight, overhead + assist hits. If you time the flight right after they pushguard, it’s negated, they get unblockabled. If they reversal super or something like that, you can cancel the air normal into unfly and block.

I think he’s still a great dark horse pick in Ultimate like he was in Vanilla if you’re willing to put the work in for him. But he won’t work if you don’t, and he won’t work if you don’t structure your team around playing him properly.

[Dime]

snip.

i think thats well conceived. kudos on the write up. you made me think of a couple of things i hadnt been doing like using an assist just to cover the air such as RR log trap. still, i think vajra shits all over poor IM in this game and i think IM is just going to have trouble against the likes of ghostrider and friends… which unfortunately hes GOING to meet if hes played at battery position.

it seems that you think that IM can somehow play keepaway… but against like ghostrider or nemmy calling repulsor while protecting with assist aint going to work… tentacles and chains are invincible and go right through repulsor unfortunately. then he might have to deal with hawkeye… and this is all while hes got vajra up his ass keeping him from doming people with smartbombs… god if i had a nickle for everytime i tried to smartbomb just to get hit by vaj assist in mid air.

also… he has real trouble achieving point blank range now… at point blank he has solid mixups but it seems like an act of jesus is needed just to get into the position. i could go on… but i dont want to be the downing debbie here… i wish you guys well with the armored one and i truly hope im wrong and he actually is a sleeper. if he somehow gets some new tech or goes up in tiers, ill be back. but i need to win and IM just isnt going to cut it for me anymore.

good luck guys

-dime

[KJunk]

i think thats well conceived. kudos on the write up. you made me think of a couple of things i hadnt been doing like using an assist just to cover the air such as RR log trap. still, i think vajra shits all over poor IM in this game and i think IM is just going to have trouble against the likes of ghostrider and friends… which unfortunately hes GOING to meet if hes played at battery position.

One thing to keep in mind, if you’re on the ground (or near it) and see a Vajra assist call, you can just throw a L Repulsor Blast to stuff Strider. If you have 2 bars, you can kill him by canceling Repulsor Spread into Proton Cannon and then DHCing into something safe (which you do since their point character is probably blocking the unsafe proton cannon).

it seems that you think that IM can somehow play keepaway… but against like ghostrider or nemmy calling repulsor while protecting with assist aint going to work… tentacles and chains are invincible and go right through repulsor unfortunately. then he might have to deal with hawkeye… and this is all while hes got vajra up his ass keeping him from doming people with smartbombs… god if i had a nickle for everytime i tried to smartbomb just to get hit by vaj assist in mid air.

I do think he can, but only at certain times against certain characters. Like against Ghostrider and Nemesis, I think he has to get up above them (if they don’t have Vajra assist or Missiles). If they do, then he has to go in. Or you swap him out with your second character who hopefully has better match-ups against those characters. I run Dante after him, so I’d probably swap their order before the match starts. Dante + Unibeam assist can give all three of those characters hell.

[skyhighclaw]

hey i got a question(rather noobish question) how do u guys still can manage with a jumping downforward dash? i mean i find it unusable with his new airdash and that was my main way of getting in with iron man.

and second question, can u guys still do a proton cannon after a iron avenger? i tried all day in training mode and still cant pull it off due to his lame new dash.

and on a side note, thank you for your post kjunk its REALLY informative