ULTIMATE Balance/Tier talk thread

Btw, Phoenix is not bad at all. Her nerfed air actions aren’t as much of a hindrance as I thought they would be. Fly and 2 actions at super jump height is very reasonable and it’s more than enough to do work against the characters that especially hated it (wolverine, she hulk, haggar, etc.) The nerf of c.M is fine and it was a bit of a ridiculous move in the first place. It still lowers your hitbox a good amount but you can’t just toss it out to escape half of a screen away.

Phoenix’s REAL nerfs are outside of the character imo.

Slower meter gain - This is probably the most noticeable. Even after having some fairly dominant matches with my first 2 characters, killing my opponent’s first two, and then getting xfactor ran back on them, phoenix still comes in with less than 5 bars. Getting her there is a real chore and honestly I’m not sure it’s worth it when I could be running a more solid anchor and using meter more liberally

Side exchange - We all know it drains meter. Easy to counter if you’re looking for it. The problem is that as a Phoenix player you’re ALWAYS looking for it meaning up and down exchanges are basically free for your opponent. Of course you can guess other directions and at higher levels it’ll be a bit of a mind game but at the same time, losing a meter, especially with the slow meter gain is disastrous for a Phoenix team so it may not even be worth guessing other directions.

Air xfactor - I know people are saying this is a buff for Phoenix but I’m not convinced. If you manage to get 5 meters, get her in, get her dark, and tag her out; air xfactor is wonderful. However, for your opponent, it’s a get out of jail free card on Phoenix’s easy bake trap and teleport mixup as well as another factor players can use to get the jump on her when she’s dark.

Other characters - Strider feels almost like a hard counter at times. H vajra owns Phoenix, assist or not, and I’m not sure there’s going to be a good answer to it besides reacting with Super. It tracks and you have to eat it, even if you’re at superjump height. That being said, you wont be at super jump height because you’re flying if you’re doing anything up there really. Ouroboros also kicks phoenix’s ass pretty hard. I say other characterS because I’m sure there will be more anti phoenix tech out there soon between Morrigan’s drain fireball and air xfactor stuff

Agreed. Except that you missed the biggest nerf to Phoenix which would be Hawkeye.

Nah, Hawkeye’s bionic arrow has startup and isn’t something you can use randomly and expect to hit with. Good Phoenix players wouldn’t stupidly let Hawkeye players have a chance to hit them with it. Strider’s orbs on the other hand is a really big nightmare for Phoenix players.

Let there be no confusion in this thread. Anything Daggers assist does, Bolts does better. It’s not a true blockstring, it gives you a year to follow up if it hits, and he’s not just standing there waiting for the daggers to track for 3 seconds.

I assume Frank’s cart is a physical hit and not a projectile? While he’s not a very good anchor, it is nice to know that you can counter any beam attempt and punish the opponent for doing… Anything but blocking for 500k+.

You may be right about meter being less, but damage? You gotta be kidding me. You can do a half-retarded/simple BnB with Nova and get over 700K, and a more competent one for 800K. Most of his play-style is built around reset options, and all he needs is one reset to kill. For a majority of the cast he doesn’t even need one reset when he can just DHC out for the kill.

And the 4 bars for Frank? Dude, you only need two bars. Just landing a normal BnB for Nova finishing in Supernova, and DHC’ing to whiff’d Frank Survival techniques is still a sure way to hit level for after the snapshot. You only need three after bars for level 5.

And the red health mechanic is still being explored. Most of us understand the possible uses for the pulses, but it’s a matter of getting used to the system. Also, shit doesn’t need to be jaw dropping to be effective.

Magnus is still waiting for people to unleash the power of one of the dumbest zoning tools that doubles as cover for rushdown in FG history.

MAGNETIC BLASTS!!!

Makes Gouki’s Zanku Hadouken a damn joke in comparison.

i was praying for the zero suit from SSF4 tbh.

And how the fuck is Hawkeye S tier.

This angers me.

Hmm so it looks like Nova works well with Spencer, listening to them in game I shouldn’t be surprised…

Spoiler

[media=youtube]oNz4oEqSvmc[/media]

I’m pretty sure the Cart is a projectile. The hyper definitely is. Anyone want to confirm?

I thought Mags players were saying that Blasht Loops were going to be his main thing in this game.

ISHYGDDT

Stop separating Phoenix.

That said, as someone mentioned in another (or this, forget) thread, the most damaging nerfs to phoenix aren’t her actual nerfs, but the game engine. I’ve been thrown into fits of rage to build a five meter combo with not a scratch on me, then have someone aerial combo my phoenix and
**JUST AS PLANNED

**I would say that’s the most damning nerf to Phoenix, but I’m still going with health/damage output. Phoenix has taken 2 1/2 lifebars down for me in a clutch countless times, so even if we’re talking the dynamics of the two personas I don’t see her as a B tier character. I will say it a thousand times.

900,000 Phoenix>370,000(?)Regular/Dark. If it was an option to remove DP and take a buffed Jean, I’d take it in a heart beat.
Sentinel/missile spam seems worse in UMVC3. It could just be my time off, but it seems much harder to rush that shit down now.
Taskmasker and hawkeye are about equally annoying, but I’m not calling for nerfs.
And as mentioned, Fuck Wesker.

Tight or Fight 2, a tournament in Norcal where 3 of EVO’s MvC3 top 8 were there had this as top 8:

1: DacidBro using: Captain America, Vergil, Taskmaster.
2: Mr.Naps using: Ryu, Dormammu, Wesker.
3: Chrisis using: Viper, Dante, Doom.
4: F-Champ using: Ghost Rider, Sentinel, Dormammu, Phoenix, and Magneto.
X-ray using: Wesker, Dante, Magneto.
Mine using: Wesker, Dormammu, Hawkeye, Taskmaster, Magneto.
Showstopper: Magneto, Sentinel, Vergil, Haggar.
Unfortunately I forget the last person in top 8. X_X

Ryu and Captain being on those teams is a big deal.

PS don’t worry I won’t be staying that team I just didn’t have my Strider ready yet. I’m still figuring out who should go in the Viper/Strider sandwich.

My fav Mag combo.

So players are dropping Magus out of laziness. Figures.

Cart is not a projectile.

I really like Dante with Strider assist.

I do too, but I also like Vergil and Doom with him too and maybe others, just need to see.

True. I still haven’t even messed with Vergil yet lol

This game feels as broke, if not more, than vanilla to me. So many more blind mixup characters.

IMO so far the really strong characters are:

Wesker, Vergil, Zero, Viper, Dormammu, Doom, Captain America, Taskmaster, Spencer, probably a few others.

Characters that show a lot of potential but haven’t really been tapped yet:

Firebrand, Rocket Raccoon, Strider, Skrull, probably quite a few more.

Doctor Strange is awesome at getting cheap kills. I don’t think he’s all that great as a character but read a book > x factor kill combos are amazing at getting rid of problem characters. He kinda reminds me of vanilla akuma. Great assist, great super, pretty scary in x factor with meter but not that good otherwise.

Yeah Magnetic Blast is a great move and shuts down alot of the cast. I get 3 Magnetic Blasts with every jump.

Actually, you get frank to lvl4 on just one bar, you build the other one in the combo, and it does ~700k, that’s pretty good. I did more because it was a combo vid and I wanted it to be flashy, but at the same time show off the wierd hard knockdown property on the first 2/3’s of Nova inferno. Most supers like that use the soft knockdown property. My main goal with the vid was to show off tech, I tried to be as flashy as possible, but everything in the vid is totally practical.

Also, Nova does more damage than storm or Magneto and his reset game is retarded. Seriously, did you see that javelin glitch reset? It may not look jaw dropping, but forcing a back tech is a big deal, with someone like wesker on your team that guarantees you a meterless kill (barring reversal moves).