UFC 2009: Undisputed Thread

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
101

Wow, please tell me some of you guys are joking. This game is crap. I know you’re getting your hopes up that they’ll fix all the flaws before the official version comes out, but when’s the last time you saw that? Especially with core flaws like the weakness of the ground game. There is no limb damage other than kicking to the legs. You can armbar Liddell 100 times and his punches will be just as strong.

And legs kicks should WEAKEN PUNCHES, not just kicks. A lot of your force from a punch comes from your back leg, but it doesn’t work like that in this game. If you don’t thing leg kicks affect punching power, see the Griffin v. Rampage fight. Page took too many shots to the leg early on and went from a 1 punch KO machine to a little wussy girl.

Taking out their legs also has little to no effect on the ease of taking them down. That seems completely dictated by their stamina. I don’t know about you, but I think after getting wailed on by leg kicks from Shogun, I might not be able to sprawl as well.

Submissions turn into Mario Party “let’s see who can do 360s faster”. Kinda wish I had a dual analog arcade stick so I could do 360s and piano rolls at the same time. I’d submit people all day.

And if you get dazed and fall down it’s a free win because they’ll just full mount and hit you twice and they’ll end the match. It’s like Herb Dean is reffing this game, they call it short so much. Let them get a few free shots in, then let them pull guard. This whole “full mount = free win” crap is bogus.

102

+1

It seems like it’s got the same gameplay issues that have plagued previous UFC games. It’s just too linear and formulaic. More button mashing please.

Yeah, it’s got really nice graphics, but I’m not going to buy it despite me being a huge UFC fan.

103

Someone quoted one of the devs talking about how it was going to be a “technical fighter with no button mashing”. The fucking tutorial specifically states you’re supposed to button mash during take-downs, submission attempts, and more. Have you SEEN this game played competitively? Every time anyone does any of those things it looks like the players are having seizures because they’re mashing buttons so hard.

Not sure HOW they thought that was going to be a good feature…

104

So Marvel is a button masher?

105

I believe when he said that there would be no button mashing, he was talking about the striking aspect of the game. You can’t just charge in blindly and mash buttons expecting a knockout. But yeah button mashing is in the game. I also kind of don’t like the fact that it’s one of the ways to stuff takedowns or submissions, I said in an earlier post that it’s such an unnatural thing to do on a controller with just a thumb that you’re almost forced to reposition.

When you’re rocked, and the screen goes white/black, it’s almost impossible to get out of it if the other player is quick enough to rush in and get in a couple free shots. However a full mount doesn’t equal a win. I’ve survived a full mount plenty of times with just well timed blocking and/or good transitions. When you’re rocked, there’s no chance though.

106

Man, this may not be the best game, but it sure is addictive.

Here are my strats for Expert difficulty:

  • I can with consistently with Shogun. Just keep using the Muay Thai Clinch and alternate left and right knees. Chuck usually eats 4-5 knees before getting out of the clinch. You can easily reduce his stamina bar to the red zone within the first round just with the clinch. Then I keep using strong body kicks on the same side of the body. After about 20 they’ll start rocking him (grey screen) and the rest is a piece of cake.

  • I have a bit more trouble winning with Chuck. Shogun’s AI actually attempts takedowns unlike Chuck, and if your stamina is low he can very easily win by submission. Note that you can hold the right analog back to counter takedown attempts. My current strategy is to use strong body kicks or leg kicks and slip a few quick punches in right after the kick. I also try to hit with his Superman Punch and Spinning Backfist (F+L1+Punch) when at the right distance. Keep softening him up and hope for a KO or decision.

107

sounds like osomeone cant beat the cpu haha. but seriously, its ufc you can get knocked out in 5 seconds. and full mount usually= free winn in rl too. its not that hard to get out of a full mount either, just dont do escapes 24/7 cuz then the coomp knows what your doin, you gotta fakeout the cpu. i still think is a pretty decent game, second good ufc game ive ever played, the first one was some ufc game on early ps2, it was trash but i liked it for some reason

108

fn4 will no doubt be much more fun

109

It’ll be fun, looking more foward to FN4. I think some people are way to harsh on the game. Let’s let it come out first before we condemn it to death.

110

i’m guessin FN4 will be better but i think this is gonna be fun just to mess around with

111

I’m with the camp that does not like this game (and oddly enough, all of us seem to be MMA practitioners too).

As a game: too “button-y”. A lot of of the game aspects could have utilized less buttons. Why two buttons for defense? Is it that hard to hit duck + block to block lower attacks?

As a fight sim: Think about it: who crouches fighting game-style in MMA? No one. “mid” and “low” attacks would count for the same thing. You’re not going to block a low leg kick by sitting on your butt like in VF, you would do it standing up.

And yes, where is the body damage? When I wear my opponent down with leg kicks, they will do damage, EVEN IF HE’S DEFENDING. You can’t sit there and absorb/block shots all day and then come out with a knockout punch.

Tapping to escape is fine, but needs to be refined.
Circular movements to reverse: why the need for another stick? holding guard + rotating the movement stick would have accomplished the same thing.

Movement is pretty crap. When you’re backed into a corner, you’ve got fuck all to choose from. In real matches, you can bob and weave and then step out to your opponent’s side (obviously if you’re caught with something while bobbing, it would be ggpo).

Also, the striking aspect of the game is incredibly random and mash-friendly. I can understand getting stunned (b&w screen), then hit again for a KO, but when I stun the op, and the op blocks the punches, he can come back and KO my character? Huh? Believe me, when you’ve just been hit hard, and you feel like you’re about to go down, your power hooks aren’t going to be there. All your energy is focused on staying on your feet and creating space.

And again… the movement in this game is awful. Spacing and movement are critical to everything in MMA (e.g. if you throw a kick to the head and the op ducks so far inside the kick, your thigh isn’t going to do any damage, and he’s going to take you down, as opposed to hitting him bang-on with your foot).

I had high hopes for the game (seeing as it was a VFDC member who was involved), but the game fell into the random mash-fest trap, instead of going the way of a technical sports-sim.

It’s an incredible paradox: the game’s mechanics are needlessly complex, but the end result isn’t. (Whereas in Street Fighter, Tekken, or Virtua Fighter, the mechanics are simple, but the gameplay is incredibly deep.) I’m not denying the game is fun… in a brainless sort of way, but as someone who does MMA and loves fighting games such as Virtua Fighter, this game’s gameplay fails for me.

112

Someone needs to tell that to Scott Smith.

I think the game is fun and a decent attempt for a first time with a new engine. Yes, there are alot of nitpicks, but I doubt every single aspect of MMA could ever be incorperated into a video game, but overall I am having a blast playing my friends and the CPU with just two characters, and I hope the needed tweaks and improvements will be added in future sequels.

113

Actually the Expert difficulty is extremely easy. I use Shogun, and the CPU can’t defend the Muay Thai clinch for shit. A few good full power knees to the face and he’s done. Alternatively you can just rock his body all day and go for a submission (although they gave the Expert CPU a superhuman ability to mash out, you can’t use your thumb to mash, you have to “piano roll” the front of the controller. Because that’s a natural movement, right?). Every time you perform or defend a takedown or submission you have to move from using your thumb to using your fingers. It’s like the standing game was created by a group designing for the pad while the ground game was designed by guys who thought the game would be played on arcade sticks. NO one piano rolls a controller naturally. Also GL online against people using turbo controllers. They’ll submit you in 10 seconds.

To those who say you can’t mash in the standing game… uh you’re wrong. Unlike in FNR3 where if you mash you’ll lose stamina QUICKLY, you barely lose any stamina for mashing in this game. Pretty much all stamina drain comes from your opponent doing body shots to you. If you stay in tight if you’re playing Shogun, Chuck won’t be able to land a single hit on you because his elbows and knees are too fast (yeah whoever made it so a weak inside knee completely stuffs a hook was an idiot, and it’s going to completely unbalance the game in favor of the quick guys. IRL people “punch through” weak hits all the time).

So yeah, getting in close and mashing (i’m just gonna define mashing as randomly alternating high and low punches and high and low kicks with no regard for defense) is an extremely viable tactic in this game.

And if you think that fights get called after full mount in the real deal most of the time, you need to watch Pride fights more. Sure Herb Dean calls a match if a fighter so much as gets a scrape, but if watch some fights where Shogun got mounted and destroyed, only to come back and win it. I really wish people who’ve watched like 4 UFC matches and True Ultimate Fighter didn’t try to act like they know about MMA.

114

It’s only fun when I beat down my brother with Rua and he is Liddel. I don’t follow UFC but he obviously picked the stronger guy I guess.

I don’t see me going any further than just playing the demo though.

115

I’m so conflicted about your post, because everyone is entitled to like or dislike whatever they want, but you’re so wrong about many of the assertions you make with regard to the game systems that it’s distracting. Ultimately, I don’t think correcting you will make you like the game any more, though, so I guess I won’t bother? Sorry you didn’t like the game anyway!

116

I’ve played this game quite a bit (on Expert since day 1 and against other players) and I can assure you he’s not wrong. Also like him I know tons about MMA (I’ve watched it since early Pride days). I’d like you to point out what you think is wrong in his post. He’s pretty much spot on. I think some people haven’t gotten deep enough to notice a lot of what he says.

It’s funny because with most fighting games when you first get into it you mash, then you learn that’s not the most effective way to play. In this game you start out not wanting to mash because it doesn’t seem right, but once you get better you realize that mashing is the strongest way to play.

As I said before, it didn’t have to be that way, but they chose to make it so that a jab will stop you dead in your tracks. I’ve seen 100 fights IRL where a guy lands a jab clean but his opponent (especially a guy like Rampage) punches THROUGH the jab and lands a vicious looping right hook to end the match. In this game if you go for a Superman punch and I tap you with my pinky toe it’ll knock you dead in your tracks.

If you combine that with the fact that stamina barely drops from throwing and you can regain stamina very quickly, you get a very mash friendly game. The only way a guy like Liddel can beat a fast guy like Shogun is if you catch him coming in. But with “zomg imba blocking” you just put your hands up to your face, run in, and go Muay Thai on their ass.

The problem is that they combined too many elements of regular fighting games (stuffing an opponent with a jab) with elements of MMA (moving forward during a block) and it makes the game a poor-ass mishmash of both. They should’ve chosen if they wanted a Sim or an Arcade game and stuck with it.

117

You can do that in UFC 2009 Undisputed. You are totally wrong in saying that a jab stops attacks.

But honestly, like I said, everyone’s entitled to like and dislike whatever they want. I think in this case, it’s a combination of you not really understanding the game, and also just not agreeing with some of the decisions made, and that’s totally okay!

Oh yeah, and I made the game, so I kind of like to think I know a little bit about it. :rofl:

118

It’s cool that you made the game man, but I’m gonna go in right now and double check because I’ve beaten Liddel on expert without barely getting hit by just moving into elbow/knee range and mashing. Maybe far jabs can get looped, but I’ve definitely seen an inside knee shut down Liddel all day. I’ll edit this post when I have my results.

EDIT: OK just tested it. Did every strong punch Liddel has and watched him get stuffed by a jab every time. Maybe you’re talking about when a punch moves you in such a way that you completely evade the opponents’ punch. That’s different, like Liddel’s looping hook. Sure you can evade some punches and hit them hard with it, but the fact remains that if they connect with you in any way you will go into hitstun and your move will just instantly stop.

And since you’re made the game, may I ask why the hell you guys decided to make the ground game ENTIRELY based on button mashing? That doesn’t make any sense to me how that would be considered a good idea, especially on a pad based game. I could forgive the rest of the faults if my favorite part of MMA wasn’t reduced to simple mashing. I find it ironic that the most skillful part of mixed martial arts is the most mindless part in this game.

119

I don’t know what to tell you, but what you’re describing just isn’t true. One of the game’s core concepts was to support attacking while being attacked in as many situations as possible. Punching while being punched was something we got in very early in development.

As far as the ground game being entirely based on button mashing, that also is not true, so I kind of don’t know how to answer that question either. But like I said, you’re completely entitled to not like the game.

120

I was exaggerating when I said the entire ground game. Obviously transitions are skill based, which is cool. But two of the core parts of the ground game are clearly based on mashing, takedowns and submissions. It even says to mash in the tutorial (and yes spinning the stick is the exact same as mashing). You could’ve made it skill based like you did transitions but you went for the mashing mechanic for some reason. I would’ve liked to see the same system applied for subs and TDs as you did for transitions, such as the defender could defend one side with one movement in the sprawl, and the aggressor could go for a certain leg with a different movement.

But unless your tutorial lied takedowns are completely based on stamina, stats, and mashing.