I completely agree. I’m just saying there’s people that want to be the best, and want to be a player who dominants the competition, but some of those people have limited options. They will never get that exposure to other play styles, and experience that me and you mentioned. If US players had constant experience against the Japanese, I feel the US level of play would be that much higher.
There are some people that can definitely be a high level player in fighting games without arcades/or access to high level players, but who knows what happens when this person is playing on the big stage, or even playing in a tournament for the first time. The mentality is so much different.
On a grand scale, I don’t think US will ever get there, but there are groups of people in the US that can actually stay on even ground when it comes to Japan.
But see that’s Japanese-centric though. I know it depends on the game, but US players on the borders of Mexico for KOF for example, have access to players from Mexico, so what becomes of that? The highest levels of play of KOF found in the US just happen to be on border towns. Why is this?
One person or a few go to Mexico to train, come back, the level of play gets higher because of it, people adapt, get stronger, and the cycle rinses and repeats.
So people from the US can look to other countries besides Japan because I assure you as good as the Japanese are, they have not seen everything, every country has different styles, even cities within countries have different styles, and you can catch Japanese off guard (I did it to Mago who got top 4 in SBO in NGBC when I beat him 7-4 at EVO World 2007) just as much as they can catch you off guard.
Maybe US players just look at Japan as the Benchmark and could care less about other countries. Some things are like that. There may be good players all around the world, but chances are they never heard of them, and rather play well known Japanese players because they saw what they can do, and they want to be just like them. I mean fighting games originate from Japan, so people expect the people who live where the game originates from to be the best of the best (not always the case).
I can imagine this same conversation being talked about with Japanese Baseball vs American Baseball, or American Basketball Vs <insert any country that plays Basketball>. While it’s totally different from fighting games, the skill difference is very noticeable. When there’s a standard, people will always look at the main innovators and dominators, and aspire to be just like them.
Are you saying that Americans are better at baseball than the Japanese? Not really if recent performances are any indication. And MLB is made up of tons of Latino players, so what exactly is your definition of ‘American baseball’. And lastly, guess which country won the last two World Baseball Classics? Japan did. So your implication that there is any large skill gap between American ballplayers and the Japanese is completely unfounded.
I used to be a baseball writer covering both the Yankees and Mets in NYC so baseball is certainly something I follow. So far the Japanese have won the first two major international competitions of baseball twice at the highest level. Current Red Sox pitcher and Japanese native Daisuke Matsuzaka received the MVP trophy both times.
If you think of the World Baseball Classic as the EVO of baseball then the Japanese seem to dominate that pretty decidedly. I’m not saying that the Japanese dominate like that in terms of fighting games. But certainly saying that the ‘Americans’ are any better at the sport of baseball at the highest level is incredibly ignorant and foolish.
Apparently you’ve never watched the Olympics because America hasn’t won basketball at the Olympics every time, and the ones that we did win in the last three Olympics wasn’t easy either.
Never said that. I’m just saying that Baseball is an American sport. Mostly everything about the game came from America. You think a country like Japan didn’t learn from American baseball players as a whole? I know Japan has some great talent when it comes to baseball, but I would like to see a real US team (not some PUG) play a Japanese team. It might be close, it might be a blowout, but the results would be totally different then some random team put together for international competition.
I have watched the Olympics, and I don’t really think Olympic anything is a true measure of skill or performance of a nation. Maybe individual events, but team based things? Definitely not.
Both the Olympics, and the United States National Baseball team are made up of players from all over the US from many different teams. They lose the team mentality because none of the people are from the same team, they don’t know each other/ never played together, and most of the time, they are just there because they were selected. Hell, most of the team relies on individual skill most of the time to carry them threw the events (hello Dream team). You think team chemistry is really good come Olympic time? Hell no, compared to a developed team they aren’t well put together, and they are sloppy.
Sorry if my skill gap difference made some people angry. I’m terrible with words.
Thats still ignorance. Thats saying only one country exists and the others don’t. From travelling myself I know for a fact that’s pure ignorance. Esp in regards to games like KOF and Tekken (Which are the most played fighting games in the world), theres wayyy too much out there people just don’t know about. Japan isn’t the end all be all, theres sooooo much skill out there people just don’t know about.
its always like a hard question to answer because no matter what you say people will always go back to “well daigo won so and so, and justin/marn lost first round at sbo” but people need to realize what they dont see is what actually matters in japan…we spent a lot of time at big box when we were out there…and im comfortable saying that the top 4-5 in usa are on par with japan…obviously they have more knowledge about certain things because of the obvious advantages of everyone living close and playing a TON…but for the ammount that usa top players play (not very much at all comparitively) and what i witnessed and how we did…we arnt very far behind at all if any…even with them being slightly ahead the speed at which usa top players level up in japan is ridiculous and while you may go back to “sbo results had team usa going out first round” in reality all a japanese tourny is a streak…since its just 1 game all you have to do is go on a small streak and all of a sudden you won a tournament…and we definitly had our fair share of streaks at big box…marn consistantly beating itabashi gief and shiro…justin consistantly raping akumas (tokido specificly) just in general we all had a lot of solid streaks…the things you dont see is what really makes the difference in japan…and while ide still say the big 3 are a little ahead of us (mago/daigo/nemo…even tho nemo quit so idk if that matters anymore) i would say were on par with the rest…was pretty bored so just thougth id answer this question imo…sorry for the wall of text!
^^^close the thread on that note…floe speaks goodshit. Besides, if there is anyone asking the community this question, then we can most likely assume they arent that good and want to know the potential to which they can take their skill. The people saying that japan is automatically greater than the US WILL never be good enough in the US let alone get better than Japan, this is based on the notion of having a defeated attitude.
Lol at using one instance like that to justify the majority of american wins being O Sagat. You see how your example doesn’t show much?
And yes, Claw was being used cheap.
FloE…ever heard of metagame clash? Sure, US can get some streaks on Japan(pretty rare still) but the discussion is beyond just wins or losses. Metagame clashes can result in matches looking really ugly because players aren’t playing as “expected”.
Did you see team Wong vs. cygnus/that other rufus at SBO first round? It was a very ugly match, with no flow at all. The reason is because there was a big metagame clash here.
Are you sure he was top 4 in NGBC? Last time you were saying he WON NGBC.
You don’t seem to understand something about “different styles”, or metagames rather. The reason certain styles can catch you off guard isn’t necessarily because it is a new, different style. It can be that the style is inferior (based on a lack of knowledge). It can take a bit to adjust to this style - the required adjustment isn’t because it’s something new you haven’t seen before - it’s because one player is playing on a higher level than the other player (who is using this different style) and so the higher level player needs to dumb down their game… Metagames can have many layers and the Japanese are accustomed to playing people that are thinking many levels ahead. When they run into a lower level player, they need some time to figure out exactly how far his layers of metagames go.
Really, why do you think Japan vs. US matches generally look very ugly?
If I’m on ignore, then stop mentioning my name in almost every single post while you refuse to read anything (that generally shoots down your pathetic points). This is elementary school behavior man.
The ability to adjust to gimmicks and metagame clashes is a skill that should not be discredited.
The way I look at it. Japan= MLB US= Japan pro leagues.
We have some guys like Wong/Ichiro who can compete and even be all-stars, but the best players overall will be Japan. We’re definitely capable of competing well though.
BTW on the Japan vs US baseball, I think the Baseball prospectus guys did some statistical analysis or something, and Japan baseball was between AAA and majors. I’d still take the Yomiuri Giants over the Royals or Pirates. (I think they gave it a 94% equivalency or something)
As for the WBC and Olympics for baseball- we send a minor league team to the Olympics (no one on 40-man rosters goes), and Baseball isn’t an olympic sport anymore- i think it got replaced by rugby and golf. WBC has its own issues- though that is no discredit to the Japanese, who do play a very high caliber of baseball.
Let’s put it this way though- when Buddy Carlyle is big free agent signing over in Japan, the level isn’t really MLB quality.
It’s safe to say 95% of the people who have posted in this thread have no idea wtf they’re talking about.
I can’t say I know much about the US/Japan tournament scene, inner workings, whatever else. So that’s why I’m not going to.
This comment is fucking stupid.
Play to win or don’t play. Who cares if it’s “cheap”? Oh right, people that don’t win.