TvC: Tier List Speculation

I just discovered that all of PTX’s aerial moves are safe on landing, due to you being able to block for the entirety of the landing animation off his attacks, and since he can jump around without any landing or startup lag, this means he can essentially use j.5C and be totally carefree about getting punished for it, which makes approaching those pesky chain-weilding Karas’s so much easier.

I’m assuming Lightan has the same.

FrustratedSquirrel aside, nobody is developing game content in here for a few reasons. Many are just playing the CPU, so once B & Bs are discovered they can’t add much. Also once in a while all of us discover a couple tricks to use in a match, but I guess most people refrain themselves from sharing it since tactics that are not Kubo-Instant Win stuff may get hated on.

Also, the overall community seems to be getting worse mentality-wise. I’ve been reading SRK since when MvC2 came out, and at the time top players would share news with everybody else. Now what we get is Justin Wong spamming “Souki” which realy helps no one, and yet is more than most top players of most games are willing to do. Marn was actually the high point of TvC discussion.

Well, you know what’s cool? Tag in combos!!! I know Ken can do c. HK, jab DP, baroque, tag. What other tag combos or tactics (like safe tags vs some moves) people know?

SFIV coming out soo soon after TvC pretty much killed off a lot of activity here. I blame that more than anything.

I’m one of the people that just play the CPU, so what you said applies to me.

It will pick back up.

I have way more fun with TvC than SFIV. I have a few people I play with, but only one of them is really progressing in skill along with me.

I need this game to be active too, at least until some other fighter steals my attention away.

This game has a LOT more that can be discovered and documented. I mean, we haven’t even discovered half of the useful team combos and tactics I’m sure. B&Bs are nice and all, but there are always alternatives that are worth using too where assists are involved. This game his so many possibilities.

We should start figuring out stuff like frame data too, if possible. x_x I remember that with Smash Bros Brawl, people got onto that stuff quickly and it helped.

I’m really trying hard to make the giants good. I’m testing all dangerous situations with PTX vs bad matchups and trying to find ways he can play safely, and so far it’s really looking hopeful. I train with my friend who uses Karas/Tekkaman on a team, and we play so that whenever I get hit by either chain, we reset the game. Psychochronic taking 4th place in that tournament recently with PTX and hardly any practise before hand was pretty cool, especially since he did face a Tekkaman who knew how to kill giants in the last match he played, and he still won some of those rounds.

Oh, and one more thing: Polymar beats PTX up real bad. He gets in and uses A B 2B UH OH, PTX IS TRYING TO ATTACK, I’M JUST GOING TO USE 6B NOW AND GO TO THE OTHER SIDE, OK? and then suddenly Shinkuu Katatekoma.

I’m also enjoying TvC more than SF4. PTX is looking better in my eyes. I’ve been winning several tekk/karas’s at my local arcade and it doesn’t seem so bad of a match up now. I honestly think the true giant slayers are really cash, saki & ippats. Polymar is kinda difficult, yes, but remember that PTX’s 5C hits from behind! I’m hopeful interest will come back to the board… at least not for while cause of SF4. :wgrin:

Don’t forget Yatterman. You can’t barge through his ‘chain’ and he has a really high-damage infinite. I’m not so worried about Cash or Ippats, but Saki is a problem, yes. XD Morrigan is also pretty nasty because of her command grab.

After more experiments with both Lightan and PTX, I can safely say that PTX THEORETICALLY has the superior pressure game. Lightan doesn’t have a safe closing to any of his strings without baroque, and has poorer mobility. His attacks are faster and he has better combos, but he can’t rushdown nor approach as safely as PTX can. Lightan also has more deadzones. I really want to learn how to play Lightan though, since he looks like he could cover some of PTX’s bad matches like Keits said.

Also, Lightan doesn’t have safe aerials like PTX does. Weird.

As much I like playing SFIV, TvC just seems more fun to me, despite its simplicity.

I don’t really see how Ippatsuman wrecks giants.
-623+2 attacks grab super doesn’t connect at all (neither does it connect for Polymar, unless he’s on the ground, in which that case, grounded 360+ 2 attacks will land).
-Dash, 623C make Ippatsu hard to retaliate against, but it is unsafe. 63214+2 attacks inflicts good damage in a giant whiffs.
-Against Ippatsu Megazord, just jump over lower screen unblockable and crouch upper screen unblockable. I think normal A/B slaps could get in a few hits, but even those don’t do a whole lot of damage. Giants can’t be juggled (like normal size characters) against Ippatsu Megazord.

Most lvl.3 supers with invincible start-up (Polymar, Casshern, Ryu) do well, too, if a giant tries to go in for some up close damage.

Don’t forget Ken’s teleport against giants-- instant crossups at or least mess with guarding. Whenever I use Ken against giants, I tend to use Tekkaman as well. Teleport, Tekkaman assist, launch, B&B, 63214B, 623+2 attacks works quite well.

I like TvC more too, but I disagree with the comment about its simplicity. Maybe TvC is simple compared to MvC2, with 3 char teams, 3 assists per char, 56 chars and most of TvC features plus stuff like Gbs and GCs.

But TvC, and also GG for instance, have way more stuff to have in mind and develop tactics around than any SF game IMO. In SF you’re not worried about partners, DHCs, double supers, tag ins, variable counters, baroque (there’s focus though), pushblocks, megacrashes, tardy counters, sj cancels and all that crazy stuff. Maybe players as a whole are still on a low TvC level but, if the game isn’t broken, as in one tactic wins everything, it has the potential to be way more complex than what most people think, IMO.

Same. :smile:

I think the main factors that turn people away from TvC are:

  • Less availability of the consoles and converters necessary to play the game.
  • It’s a new game series, with new characters and new game mechanics.
  • Karas.

Myself and everyone I’ve spoken with, we all agree that the game is a lot less fun when Karas is used. In order to be competitive in TvC, you have to know how to deal with Karas. But it’s way more fun to just avoid using Karas altogether in casuals.

Comparing TvC with Karas to SF4, I’m not sure which one I find more fun. =/

(Personally, the thing that will take me away from TvC is not SF4, but rather AH2 next month.)

Yeah I definitely think that this game could go farther if people put some time into it, it’s too bad all the community seemed to want to do was find a broken thing and spam it until SF4 came out. I really can’t even believe how closedminded everyone was about the game considering it just came out.

Also, it turns out I was wrong about PTX’s throws being useless. If you have megacrash to spare, you can get guaranteed damage off any throw. I explain a bit more about how this works in my PTX guide, but by grabbing an opponent and mashing Megacrash, you can land a 5C on them anywhere on the screen if they tech your grab, and by delaying Megacrash in the corner, you can get a guaranteed 2C if they try to tech. The only exception is characters who have specials that allow them to escape quickly, like Ken. PTX also gets baroque every time he megacrashes. It only takes 30% baroque 2 megacrashes and a bit of damage to KO Karas from full health with rocket BBQ 2C in a corner. You can also baroque the 2C or 5C every time if you like consistant damage, but I like to save it for the rocket so I can OHKO the second character when they switch in after the first one is defeated.

Lightan can’t do this because when an opponent tech his grab, they get sent flying far away, too far for the megacrash to hit them. Lightan also doesn’t have an unblockable rocket for the second character who switches in. So baroque is slightly less useful for him.

Also, I realised that PTX fills meter way way fast. You start the match with 1 meter, and can build it to 2 by landing any of his C moves twice. And Karas’s unscaled infinite on him gives him a lot of red life and meter soooo…

Getting hit by Karas’s inifnite is not so bad if you can Megacrash out and then rape him with a baroqued missile to level 3 or corner 2C.

Errrr… couldn’t they just block your Mega Crash after teching your throw? (Admittedly they’ll probably do an attack since they’re mashing to escape, but in theory they don’t have to.)

they can’t block in the tech state. Also the crash doesn’t hit them, the 5c does.

They can’t block? That’s news to me.

I need to play your ippats more, RF!
But besides megazord, his homerun super sprays projectiles all over giants making it really hard to AG all of them at once. This does lots of chip damage.

Apparently the japanese are playing a lot of TvC. On FGD there is a translation from Arcadia Magazine listing the 10 most played games. TvC is #8, ahead of GGAC (#9) and 3S (not listed). http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=179554

We just gotta grab those new vids, turn on our Wiis and think about new strats. Japanese arcade players seems to be doing it hardcore.

Megazord isn’t so bad for PTX either. You just run to the right side of the screen and duck. Most of his stuff goes over the top. Not sure if this works for Lightan, since he’s bigger.

Megazord?

I think he means Gyakuten oh, ippatsumans mecha