But Royal Blue is a tradition. :sad:
[COLOR=“Green”]Fine.
Anyways, Batsu is definitely High tier.[/COLOR]
i dont think he’s S tier…but he definitely became a very dangerous character…i think for a character to be ranked S…they would have to be able to fight every character or own every character…when u say the other S class characters u cant argue with why they are considered S…i dont think cash has good enough buttons…they lack range and their recovery is horrible…he get push blocked and punished for free…his jumpins are bad…his anti airs have bad recovery…he is forced to turtle in most situations…especially against chun, ryu, karas, and ken…on the other hand the infinite is highly practical and if the opportunity presents itself he is good money…but im afraid that his button priority and recovery is a huge disadvantage and his only low is this slow ass down C with bad recovery…how does he mind game and pressure some one
Well to be fair Casshern can punish a lot of mistakes he’s not really rush down, he has mind games with his super armor knee, Friender, and knock down game. He has pressure just not rush down pressure, IMO i think Casshern would be a really good zoning character with his dog calls and assist in the mix. Then again i might be bias because i just saw Casshern sin :lovin:, he’s solid but not S tier. Although this game has a lot of room to develop since its so young, only time will tell where the tiers will be by the fourth quarter.
I main Cash-earned and as much as i love beating da blasphemy outta people with him (if i get a solid combo off) I dont think he should be higher than B at this point in the game’s life. If anything, i would base his toer position (if partners were included) on the roll/cash infinite. Its hell to time but it can be done anywhere on the screen while if you have Karas on your team you need to be in the corner, which isnt always easy due to megacrashing and pushblocking. But with Roll all you need is LV3 or higher and a hit. And you can start their infinite off a sweep.
Edit: Casshern Sins is quite the anime. I hope they put his stylish counterpart in the next game. At the very least as an alternate costume.
Turns out the Casshern / Karas combo isn’t even an issue, only works on “big” characters.
So…anyone that it’d matter on, it doesn’t work.
Casshern Sins had me in tears 4 episodes in a row. It was totally embarassing.
Such a great anime, but BOY is it sad and beautiful.
The reason they didn’t put Casshern Sins in this game is because his primary level 1 was a 20-second angst-filled close-up that was designed with stalling in mind. His level 3 was an equally long outburst that also did damage. Playtesters flew into a rage if these moves were used more than once, so they dropped the character.
souki is godlike even without the infinite.
You know, I definately think PTX should be a bit higher than Lightan. PTX actually has mixup potential outside of grabs, and a few more ways to tack on the pressure. If played correctly, he can also be made to move quite fast by using dash-cancels to get rid of all the lag on his jumps.
Basically, PTX can get around fairly quickly just by jumping. Since he has no lag on either startup or landing (you can use it to cancel landing lag too) he can bounce around the stage which makes him harder to hit than when he walks or runs. It also allows him to use the C aerial quite quickly.
Another thing is that PTX has a very fast mixup in 6B, 4B. This move gets him out of so much trouble and everybody seems to forget that it actually exists. The 4B can be delayed until the very last moment before the chainsaw hits, literally a split second’s difference between an overhead and a low.
Also, PTX CAN attack through both Karas and Tekkaman’s chains.
I’m glad Justin Wong is seeing what I’ve been seeing for the longest time now lol.
PTX is terrible though, sorry man but Lightan is definitely better. I’ve played both vs REALLY amazing players (The PTX user is the same guy that beat Justin Wong at our school’s Brawl tournament and the Lightan is one of the two best Dedede mains in NYC) and I have to say…PTX is a cakewalk compared to Lightan. Lightan actually has somewhat of a pressure game. His grab is easier to get out of but in a sense it’s a lot more surprising.
I can say for 99.9% certain that Lightan is DEFINITELY better than PTX. I’ve had extensive experience against both of them so unlike most of the people here I actually have reasonable insight on this…against smart players.
Don’t take my word for it…there’s a reason the Lightan placed well at the Sinsation tournament. You’ll never see PTX get anywhere vs a player that knows how to fight giants because it’s so easy. As soon as you learn to tech hit the character is really limited, whereas even if you tech Lightan’s grabs he still has other means to deal damage. I’d say the only cool thing PTX has is his unblockable rocket and his strong ass auto guns but usually I jump over the rocket and wait for the ammo to run out before I approach vs. guns. Also when PTX reloads his guns…FIRE AWAY!!! It takes him quite a while reload. Add that to the fact that the character gets stunned on each hit due to the super armor stun effect and you’ve got yourself a free 3-4 hit combo or special.
Thing is though, nobody plays PTX properly. I don’t see anyone ever using his 6B,4B to escape from dangerous situations, and I don’t ever see anyone cancelling his jumps or even buffering his specials properly.
PTX can definately pressure quite well. Sure, he doesn’t have a good grab, but he doesn’t need one when he has a split second mixup (with the ability to buffer a riot tackle and charge back in there for more pressure afterwards) and a low. Lightan’s mobility is terrible compared to PTX’s, even with his kara throws. There are less gaps in PTX’s offense, wheras Lightan has a lot of them.
Honestly though, I’ve been reasearching PTX extensively since I got the game, and while I’m not exactly the best player, Ive seen plenty of things that people are NOT doing.
FYI, you should never even be using the grab in the first place if you’re playing PTX. He has better options.
Lightan is just easier to use.
…you’re making general observations on what people are doing from Youtube vids I’m sure…because there’s no other way you can make the (very ignorant) assumption that nobody plays PTX “properly”.
I shouldn’t have to say this but not everyone who plays this game has vids up but trust me when I say, the players I play are good players. You can be sure that my assessment is based on competent players at least. The funny thing is you admit that you’re not even that great of a player so what makes you think you know how to play PTX properly anyway…?
For one; the one mixup you mentioned will probably only work once or twice on a good player…the overhead is so slow you can just jump and hold back so that the low has no chance of hitting just incase you wanna fake. And then if you keep doing the immediate low from 6B it will get old and your opponent will just start blocking low. I will admit it is fast enough to catch anyone with a few times but the fact that you can’t connect 2C from it makes it kind of crappy.
PTX isn’t gonna win any games with his limited repertoire of viable attack strategies, not to mention playing defensive with him is out of the question since he’s such a huge target. Anyone with common sense will just safely bait you with their longest range move and wait for an attack to whiff and then they’ll unleash. The recovery on most of his stuff is good enough for most characters to get one solid 5C in or j.C which will steadily rape him.
Do I have to mention his health is minuscule compared to Lightan? I don’t even lose half my health fighting this char most of the time. Other than random hits, grabs(me missing tech hit) and hitting me out of specials PTX is not hitting me and I’m certain your PTX won’t be any different. It’s a technical thing, there are just some things you can tell, no matter who the player is. The character is simply at a huge technical deficit. Lightan is in the same boat with the tech limitations but he has more options and a lot more leeway since he can end combos with his grab which, even if you tech puts him in a pretty safe position to do whatever he wants to next.
For the record, just because you can see what the n00bs on youtube are “NOT” doing doesn’t mean they would still win even if they were doing it.
I’m very curious to see what type of pressure game you’re talking about in your previous post though…other than spamming 5A or 2A and then finishing the string I don’t see what pressure there is beyond that…and keep in mind if you whiff a part of the string there goes a good chunk of your health, thank you advance guards…
EDIT- Here’s a little video I created to show how badly Karas rapes PTX by the way. Whether you play PTX properly or not eventually you’re gonna get hit with the chain and when you do… well, just watch the vid.
[media=youtube]xwbWCV0ZXWE&fmt=22[/media]
You dont have to be good to KNOW how to be good.
Just because someone isnt a great player doesn’t mean he doesn’t KNOW how to be one.
If you can recognize your faults, your shortcomings, and how to improve by shutting down your weaknesses and pumping up your strengths, that means you have the knowledge on how to become better and you probably have the knowledge to be a good player.
What MAKES you a good player is when you apply your knowledge.
Isnt that like part of what a coach is? He knows how to be a good player, but that doesn’t mean he physically capable of doing so, so he teaches others how to be a good player.
EDIT: Also, Silven because of your reputation, your claims could be called…less than credible. I have to lean a bit to the side of squirrel. Just because you say they’re good, doesnt mean they’re playing a character the right way. Nothing personal, but I’d take the opinion of a person who pretty much used a character from day one than someone who plays a different character and knocks on/doesn’t prefer’/looks down upon the original character in question. Until vids are show, I just can’t see your so-called “good people” doing it right.
Though I could be wrong, I dont know. There is no proof for either side.
PTX’s pressure comes from correctly buffereing his specials in to his normals. If you approach with a jump cancelled jump, use j.5A (overhead) 2A, 2B(low) 2C (start buffering chainsaw) Chainsaw A version within the first 2 hits (generally safe against most stuff, including Karas’s chain) and then do another lagless jump-in, that is way better than anything Lightan can do.
As for people ‘wising up’ to his instant low attack, even if they do start blocking low a lot, the move is good on it’s own as a getaway tactic. It’s so fast that there’s no way anyone is going to never fall for it again after the first time, because I guarantee that there will be moments when they’ll have to approach if they really want to do damage. You also seem to underestimate it’s hitbox. If they’re too late when it comes to jumping and blocking, they’ll still get hit by it Also, PTX can empty cancel 6B into a chainsaw A version or riot tackle A version if they jump.
Yes, pushblock is fine and all, but usually it removes much of the actual danger for PTX as well, since it pushes him a fair bit out. I did experiments with Karas and his chain, and since the chain can be attacked through, if you’re spamming 2A, he won’t be able to hit you with it even on pushblock, since the chain’s range is also not that great, and once again it can’t even hit you if you’re jumping. And as I stated, PTX has a lagless jump cancel.
I really doubt that whatever good players you’re going up against are using PTX properly. Post vids next time and I’ll point out a whole heap of things they could have done in certain situations.
I agree on the health part though. PTX doesn’t have as much life compared to Lightan. But I think it’s a good trade up for superior mobility.
OMG silven, you mean you can infinite a PTX? We had no idea. Thanks for demonstrating your point by comboing him in training mode. You seem really dedicated to trying to call people stupid for no reason.
i guess only shoryuken people know it not youtube…
btw, i do not think ptx suck, but sure lightan is better imo.
Another thing PTX can do to get around Karas’s chain is just spend a lot of time dashing. When you’re dashing, you can instantly cancel into lagless jump the moment you suspect he’ll use the chain. It’s always safe with a landing A, and if the Karas player predicts wrong and throws out a chain and whifs, you get a free J.5C which does a lot of damage to Karas, especially since it can be baroqued.
The approach and finish I use when going against Karas is jump > j.5A > 2B > 6B,4B. 6B4B is his best way to avoid being punished, since his riot tackle is unsafe and his chainsaw is unsafe on pushblock.Basically just don’t devote to any special moves without baroque.
I don’t remember putting “stupid” in any of my latest posts but ok. Nor am I trying to make anyone look bad, I’m simply making my argument for why I think PTX is crap. Isn’t this what a tier disucssion is for…? “You seem really dedicated on” trolling me though…get over whatever your problem is and go back to playing in your scrubby Japan arcades so that you can at least make a formidable effort in convincing people that Roll is god tier…
In regards to the PTX argument I’m done. There’s really no convincing anyone when it comes to simply talking so I guess I’ll just let you experience it for yourself. I honestly would love to play you to show you how easy it is but that isn’t possible. Pressure, with any of the giants is limited, that’s all I’m gonna say.
Also, it’s always easy to be the guy on the sideline pointing out things that people are doing “wrong” so I don’t see the point of recording vids because no matter what my opponent does right you’ll just try your best to point out every single reason he got hit…
I watch pro vids in a lot of games and it’s really easy to point out every mistake even with the pros. My point is, no matter how good the PTX in my vid will be you will find some reason to say he sucks so there’s no winning with you really…If I actually cared enough about the tier list I would humor you but I honestly don’t care. I just wanted to contribute my .02 cents because I actually have a lot of experience in the matchup because like you, my friend really likes PTX and wants him to be good. He fails a lot of the time though lol.
Pointing out mistakes in pro vids doesn’t mean you’re bashing the players at all, it’s merely showing that they weren’t using all of that character’s options given the situation. Right now we are discussing what PTX is capable of at maximum potential, not how good other players are.
Dude, your tiering comments are usually great but, like we discussed before, I think you’re a little out there with the attitude again.
Just like you said, anybody can point mistakes on YouTube, and yet you called some of the players there “YouTube noobs”, and you’re really not sure unless you played them. Many people hated on Marn, but not many would care to MM him.
Also
Maybe JWong knows this from day one, and yet it seems to me that you’re implying that your perceptions are better or whatever. Unlikely, but maybe they are. Wong however has a tourney win under his belt, or hundreds if you count other games. You still have to prove yourself.
See? The guy is supposed to be good with PTX at TvC because he beat Wong in a single match of a diff game that Wong doesn’t even play to begin with?
IMO, you have some of the best inputs here and make very nice contributions, but you can avoid a lot of hate if you just debate tactics instead of arguing about how much better you’re crew is supposed to play with no proof as of right now.
I’m not trying to hate or anything. I would PM you with this, but I wanted to make pblic that I DO think you’re a great poster. IMO, you should just take it easy on the attitude and stick to your good points.
Back on track (sorry for the digression, Keits), what can giants do against their counter teams like people playing Saki, Tekkaman or whatever.
They can play very, very carefully. 9_9
Serious answer: I don’t know much about Lightan, but when it comes to fighting Tekkaman, PTX just needs to make careful use of his barging supers and stay up close in tekkaman’s face. Tekkaman’s space lariat is slower than Karas’s chain. PTX has his chainsaw and riot tackle as well as aerial C. All of these go through the lariat.
Karas is a bit harder. To approach him PTX needs to jump a lot and also try to bait the chain. Against a Karas who just spams the chain you’ll get some free damage until he figures you out and starts playing more sensibly. Basically you just have to be really precise. Always approach by jumping, Always finish your offense with either a baroque or a 6B4B, and don’t do anything risky. Keep in mind that while Karas’s infinite does a lot of damage to PTX, it also builds meter quickly. Since you won’t be using meter very much unless you have rockets or want to try to finish off, keep it ready for Megacrash. Just like Tekkaman, PTX can defeat Karas’s chain with one of his specials. It’s nice to know that every time you block the chain, you’ll get the tiniest bit of red life back to baroque. This will keep your slower moves safe and allow for more room for error.
Yatterman is more of a problem. His kendama can’t be barged though like the chains. If he hits with it, he gets a high-damage infinite off it. Luckily, it’s a charge input move and it’s not very fast. Just don’t spam 2A like you would normally do against another character, because he’ll just Advance Guard it and hit you with this move before you can do anything to escape. Always do 2A > 6B4B instead. Once again, jumping is good.
Saki…eh, just keep in her face and don’t give her a chance to use her piercing shot. Aside from that, you can just close in on her with riot tackles.