Oh god please get over it. Seriously. We’re not banning karas.
That’s silly logic anyway, because Chun is nowhere near as extreme as Karas.
I think Chun is better than Karas. You are one of the worst offenders of helping to overhype karas, you know? Wait till he starts winning all the tournaments before you put him in a tier of his own.
We should ban Daimao and get it over with. The less pedophiles in the game, the better.
But on the topic of Morrigan, I think her biggest weakness is getting zoned. Her dashes aren’t too hard to hit her out of, so if you’re not in their face, you really need an assist or something to help get inside.
Keits, why do you think Chun is better than Karas?
I don’t see Chun being as retarded as Karas…Karas’s infinite is easier and nastier, his attacks are faster and have more range, he has his teleport dash, a reflector, the best VC in the game, useful lvl.1 supers, crazy rushdown, doesn’t fear giants, has unblockable setups and a retardedly fast throw, and generally has an easier time getting in on keep-away characters.
Chun li has better defense, better damage and nice mixups. She doesn’t deal with Lightan/PTX all that well and her level 1 supers aren’t all that great in HC’s and stuff…She’s fairly close-range in everything she does wheras Karas can get you from across the screen. I don’t know, I just don’t see how she’s better than Karas. She’s not far behind, but surely not better.
I’d love to be wrong though, I don’t WANT Karas to be god tier. I’d rather he be balanced so I could play him without feeling guilty for being a tier whore.
Oh, and if we’re going to ban pedophiles, then we need to ban Ken too.
And Alex, although he’s more of a rapist than a pedophile.
ITT: What kind of Sexual Predator TvC characters are.
GOGOGOGO.
… 
Anywho, back on topic. We’ve got opinions flying back and forth about who’s better than who and no way to really back up claims. Can we get sinsation over with so than we can talk? Alot of focus has been on Karas recently, and I just want to change that. So lets talk about Morrigan or Daimoh.
No more ban talk as well.
Morrigan: succubus
Daimou: Pedophile
lol, on a more serious note, I think I’m going to start using Morrigan a lot more now, but I still don’t see her being a major threat just yet. I think my favourite thing about her is that one moment she can be running away and spamming projectiles, then within a moment’s notice start up a super fast rushdown/mixup game.
Valkyrie turn is actually pretty nice for punishing beam supers. :> After it finishes, she can combo and get a fair portion of meter back.
Soul fish is still one of my favourite projectiles to spam.
Doesnt she have that retarded looking tactic where she dashes and than instantly does an attack into the ground, so it looks like shes hopping?
Yes, that’s just using her dash and then quickly using an attack, and repeat.
That’s what I meant about nice mixups. If she does that in the middle of a rushdown, then suddenly lands and does a low attack, you have to guess very fast or else you’ll eat a combo. And then she also has her command grab.
But she still has to get in close, and she doesn’t have the best priority. Pushblock also kinda kills it.
Also, Roll is not good at aerial combos, eh? http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm5905828 @ 7:00
This is only my opinion but…
A lot of crazyness has happened since I’ve been gone for like…a day lmao.
Well you guys have a different mentality for sure when it comes to fairness in games.
**
Warning:**
This doesn’t exactly pertain 100% to this game it’s just the way I see things in regards to fairness and bans or at least slight provisions in regards to broken things so when you read this just forget about TvC for the moment and think about games in general.
In a way Keits you’re right but something tells me you haven’t played many “fixable” games seriously enough because when things are right out "broken"they are almost immediately fixed. Who finds them? The players of course…(aka people like us) Look at all the major tournament games that are “patchable”… I mean to this day Warcraft(Mass archer not so great anymore…), Starcraft(Zerg rush a little harder due to expenses), Gears(Sooo much crap fixed I don’t even wanna get into it) and Soul Calibur (Remember Ivy infinite anyone?! Gone now:rofl:) are getting updates and minor bug/glitch fixes so that they continue to be at the prime of “FAIR” competitive play, just to name a few (and this is a HUGE understatement). I know they aren’t the same as Capcom fighters but it goes to show when a developer intends for a game to be tournament-worthy they pay attention and fix balance issues whenever necessary if they can…
You can say when developers themselves are patching their games they are in some way “banning/limiting” the thing that they patched… :rolleyes:. When it comes to non-patchable games I feel it’s the players’ responsibility to “fix” it for competitive play and make up rules that prohibit blatantly broken tactics. We’re playing on the Wii and there’s obviously no venue for patches so the only way we can uphold fairness would be to at least have some kind of competitive standard. I understand the disagreement but that’s just where I’m coming from with my experience with serious games in my time. A lot of you guys are used to taking whatever you have and just dealing with it so I totally understand the harsh resiliency towards moderating anything in this game…
I’m pretty sure in light of all that we’ve found out about Karas so far the developers would most likely be patching him up right about now if they could 
. But we have to accept that this game is on the Wii and once it’s out it’s out…there’s no updates. It’s final.
There are probably a million flaws in my logic, and it’s definitely subjective I don’t deny that so feel free to e-rape me all you want but I just couldn’t resist sharing my stance on the issue of banning once I saw Keit’s amazingly moving “sig-worthy” opposition to the subject at hand.
If anything, since I’m an outsider and have no credibility just take my simple-minded foolishness with a grain of salt, perhaps maybe food for thought…
And for the record…that Morrigan/Ryu vid was amazing.
Chun Lis Infinite is better even if its harder as Karas’s doesn’t work on everyone or in every corner. Chun Li’s air game is better, Karas has no air game (though he doesn’t need to be in the air…). Chun Li’s IAD B is a real good and stuffs alot of things, where as Karas IAD attacks aren’t so good. She has more life than Karas, her Lv3 is better, Lightning Legs is too good, she can deal with giants what are you smoking, (dunno if youve seen her+tekkaman infinite on giants, without that even all you need is lightning legs on giants and then level3)
Karas is not a god tier. Hes tops for sure, but not some unbeatable win button.
Banning characters is stupid. As many have said before, once you ban one character, if you keep going that route, you should have to keep banning characters untill either the game’s balanced, or there’s only one character left for people to use. It’s rediculous that because a few people around either find him too hard to handle, or too easy to win with, that he shouldn’t be allowed in competetive play. The ony characters that really deserve a ban are console characters, as they undergo less testing, which Vewtiful Joe has pretty much shown.
I mean, has anyone ever concidered the fact that the reason he’s so good right now, is because he’s easy to use? Or maybe the fact that he’s the most used character round here? I can’t deny the fact that he’s a powerful character, yes his defence is low but he has so many tools to work with. But one thing’s sure and that is he’s not abusable nor unbeatable to the point where he breaks the game (Keits has pretty much proved this already).
If this is how people are reacting to this, I wouldn’t dare concider introducing you to a game called Hokuto No Ken…
Son, you are quite simply playing the wrong game. I can’t sum it up any better than this. Stop trying to fix the game and start trying to abuse what is there to win.
Your dead wrong about chun lis infinite being better, karas’ works on more than half the cast and can be setup off of ANYTHING. Who cares about being in the air with karas, you want them on the ground where he can apply inifinite pressure. Karas’ IAD C is gdlk… Life doesnt matter, and who needs level threes?
The point being karas’ has the best infi in the game hands down.
Anyway, back on the topic of tiers, if I had to make any predictions or estimations, I would put it out something like this. I’ll do two lists, one of right now and another of how I see it could be later down the line when characters have been mastered. Note this is just my opinion and based on what I’ve seen and experimented with. Individual tiers are in mutual order, some intentional, others not.
Right Now
S - Saki, Karas
A - Chun-Li, Batsu, Ryu, Polymar
B - Tekkaman, Ken, Morrigan, Jun, Ippatsuman, Rock, Doronjo
C - Roll, Casshern, Yatterman, Diamao, Joe
D - Souki, Alex
E - Lightan, PTX
Possible Future
S - Saki, Karas, Ken, Doronjo, Morrigan
A - Chun-Li, Batsu, Ryu, Tekkaman, Polymar
B - Jun, Diamao, Rock, Ippatsuman, Roll, Yatterman
C - Joe, Casshern, Souki, Alex
D - Lightan, PTX
Characters like Saki, Ken, Doronjo, and Morrigan, I can see moving up and getting more effective. Characters like Chun-Li, Batsu, Ryu and Polymar are perfectly estimated in my mind, with the exception of Tekkaman who has a habitual habbit of getting more destructive each time I look at him. Also I can see Diamao being better than what he’s currently worth. The others I either felt suited those positions, or I didn’t know enough about them to bump them up. But yeah, this is how I feel at the time…
more than half the cast, correct, and half of them need to be done on certain sides, also correct. chun li’s infinite can be setup in so many ways its retarded. spinning bird kick, baroque. done. c.a, c.b. c.c, lightning legs. done. launcher cancel to lightning legs. done. level 1 super canceled into lightning legs. done etc…
his iad c is pretty tight. has good range too, but gdlk? life doesnt matter? huh, do you play games. lol. when one fuck up can put you either dead, or at a lost of 70 percent of your life, i think it matters. its not whether you need level 3’s or not. im sure you wont be saying, who cares about level 3’s when you get hit by a heavy damaging one that is easily setup up off a bnb combo, like with what batsu can do.
some of the things on this board are starting to confuse me. please just man up and play the game
with the new batch of japanese vids, and my future predictions on how things will develop, i agree more so now than ever, that the lines between tiers in characters is becoming a little blurry. besides some blatantly top characters like, karas, chun, ryu, and from what it sounds, saki, i can see a through b tiers easily being a thin line seperating them.
While I do agree that Karas ultimately has an edge on Chun, his infinite is not better than Chun Li’s…
-Karas’ may be easier, but Chun’s is no where near being impractical.
-Both can be done off of “anything”. Depending on height Chun’s can even be done off of air to air C or lightning legs, actually giving her a couple options Karas doesn’t have.
-Both can be done full screen (see Buktooth’s post in Chun Li thread). Once again Karas’ may be easier, but at high level that’s not going to matter.
-Chun’s works on everyone, afaik. Karas’ doesn’t.
-Chun’s works in both corners. Karas need Baroque or an assist to help switch sides.
-Karas can solo/unscaled infinite Lightan, but Chun has the one with Tekkaman’s assist, and it’s not like Lightan really destroys her anyway.
Really all Karas has that’s better about his infinite is it can be done off an unblockable, which he still needs Baroque available for, and that it can be done off of a ranged attack, his chain. Neither is enough to offset Chun’s essentially working any where and any time.
I could definitely see something like this being eventually agreed upon. Unblockable set ups with Saki are vicious, I think Ken and Doronjo are just a mound of untapped potential even though I can’t use 'em, and Morigan’s rush down and full screen infinite capabilty seem like an execution freak’s dream.
You forgot his normals. They count as ranged attacks I’m pretty sure, haha.
I think the big thing Karas has over chun or anyone else is his safe offense, he really doesn’t have to put himself at risk to attack you, and on top of that, his offense can build his meter pretty damn fast. This on top of the fact he doesn’t have to use supers at all means that he’ll always have meter for “extra lives”. This on top of the fact he can use his burst to start his offense makes it a huge risk even hitting Karas when you know you might die if you do.
As far as the infinites go, Karas’s is a lot easier to lead into. And believe it or not, ease of use DOES matter, as you have less risk of dropping it and it requires less setup to go into.
Chun’s is more versatile when you land it though, I will certainly say that.
But, overall, Karas as a character still has a big advantage over chun. His pokes are just outright better and even if he can’t infinite her, he can still make it hurt.
Also on another note, I really think tekkaman is S-A tier. He’s so fucking good, he’s got real mix ups that are easy to apply and probably the best meterless damage in the game.
New vids you say? Where at?
This. 2 combos and most of the cast in the game dies.