I know what they’re saying, but it’s a dumb way of thinking. They think because you get + frames for meaties you have less recovery. What’s actually happening is because the amount of hitstun/blockstun is fixed and you do the move later in the animation you get the plus frames. There is no point in doing it the way they are talking about because then programmers have to deal with a recovery range on every single move in the game which is a lot harder than having a fixed amount.
If they are right about it, this game is truly retarded in terms of its mechanics.
[S]In the frame data on SRK the section labeled “recovery” is calculated based on hitting on first active frame. If you hit on last active frame (recovery - (active frames - 1)) = recovery of meaty[/S]
What you said makes no god damn sense. If Rog has 2 active frames on his crouch jab how the hell can meaty crouch jab ever lose to a 7 frame reversal? More importantly how come Balrog has to setup 5-frame safe jumps if he can freaking block 5-frame reversals with a meaty jab?
(5-(2-1)) = 4 according to you
Street Fighter has been around for 20 fucking years. How do you guys not know how meaties work?
[S][/S]
[S]Recovery in the SF4 wiki frame data is calculated on the move hitting on the first active frame[/S]
[S]The moves total frames of animation never changes[/S]
[S]The move doesn’t finish sooner, you just landed it later in the animation cycle[/S]
[S]Overhead (f. HK)[/S]
[S]15 Start Up (Active on frame 15)[/S]
[S]4 Active Frames (These 4 Frames can hit the opponent)[/S]
[S]15 Recovery (If it hits on frame 15 [the first active frame] the move will complete its animation in15 frames later)[/S]
[S]because it hit on the first active frame (frame 4) active frame 2 (frame 5), active frame 3 (frame 6) and active frame 4 (frame 7) are recovery frames[/S]
[S]-1 on block, +4 on hit[/S]
[S]Hit the move on active frame 2[/S]
[S]0 on block, +5 on hit because you hit on the second active frame, the move has 14 frames of animation left[/S]
Those two obviously dont understand game mechanics or Dudley.
My filter only works for their posts. not quotes.
any intentional quoting results in filter.
also expect oki in 4-5 days i dont usually record footage unless it’s a thursday (for some reason)
after this video…
I expect from you’s guys.
to never back off any character on knockdown.
never
unless it’s gief
If I read any complains from the fab 5 (now 4 since i can no longer read renegade’s posts)
im not making level 3
Option Selects( safe jumps and anti backdash) (continuation of Oki, prequel to blockstrings and pressure)
Resets (no bullshit like s.HK > LK duck > overhead) (level is only for those with execution. it’s mostly conditioning and momentum)
Blockstrings and pressure ( This is about defense somewhat, and offense. It’s about Dudley’s options vs the opponent’s options when +2 +1 0 -1 -2 also +3 and above)
Buffering ( The holy grail )
[S]Forgetting to +1 to account for the active frame that suppose to hit. I calculated the recovery right, I just forgot the active frame that suppose to hit.[/S]
mr.X you’re wrong about the wiki. the recovery listed IS the actual recovery the move has not what it would be if you hit on the first frame. hitstun/blockstun is calculated as what it would be if you hit on the first frame. so like if something had 5f start up, 5 active and 5 recovery with 9 hitstun (0 on hit) then if you hit on the last active frame, your opponent still has to endure 9 frames of hitstun while you still only need 5 frames to recover leaving you at +4.
c.lk’s total frames is 4+4+6=14. a meaty c.lk would hit on the last frame so 14-7=7. a reversal with 4 frame start up is 7-4=3. now first active frame of the reversal is 3-1=2. a meaty c.lk would be 2 frames too deep into the red and will get hit by a 4 frame reversal. a meaty c.lk will only be able to block a reversal of 7 frame start up or higher.
You’re still wrong. If you thought for a second about what you were saying you would understand how stupid this is. If it were the case that people could beat 3 and 4 frame reversals with meaties, don’t you think the best players in the world would have learned to have done this with a ton of consistency by now? You’re not smarter than them and you’re not better technically than them.
I can’t believe this. You’re trolling right? Do a crouch short that is at least 2 frames meaty so you can link st. fierce from it in training mode and then test what reversals you can beat. You can’t even block a freaking 6 frame reversal. How the hell are you going to beat a 4frame or 3frame dp? I will even give you the damn notation. Meaty crouch short > back + fierce. Do this against Chun EX Spinning Bird (6f), Juri EX Senpuusha (7f), and Honda EX Headbutt (8f) and see what happens. You guys go on about training mode this and training mode that. Why did I have to go into training mode to prove that you guys are morons who are spitting out complete garbage?
Edit: Loses to at least 7frame reversal as well. Way to go guys. You so smart.
So you’re saying Active and recovery frames never happen at the same time?
Dudley’s “Duck” must be a special case then.
c.LK
o o o o o o o o o
_ _ _ + ++ + - -
---------------Here it’s an anti 4F
The above is wrong according to you.
o o o o o o o o o o o
u u u u u u + - - - -
Here it’s an anti… 6F
Ummm…i don’t entirelly get the problem, but if you were talking about doing meaty cr.lk and then blocking a reversal, then cliffside is almost right, except that after a 4 frame meaty cr.lk you’d be able to block a 8 frame reversal, not 7(so no safe meaty against viper ), because,the first frame the opponent gets up:
-there is one active frame left, which makes the first frame of the reversal
-then there are 6 frames of recovery, which make up for a total of 7, but you can still be hit on the last frame of recovery, so you are only safe against an 8 framer or slower reversal (like balrog headbutt, which you can even OS EX DP after)
To answer Donald duck (lol),no, the active frames of a move and recovery rever collide. Dudley’s duck is listed only as recovery, because it doesnt have any active frames, because it doesnt actually hit by itself (without a followup),so that means that it also has no startup and cant get counterhit. (there was a bug in Super where ibuki’s command jump was considered to only have startup frames for the whole duration instead of recovery, so hitting her out would’ve given a counter hit)
What does collide, though, is the last startup frame with the first active frame, so a move like dudley cr.lk, which is listed as 4+4+6, doesnt have 4+4+6=14 total frames, but actually 13, because the first active frame is also the last startup frame.
To Mr.X, the recovery and active frames are separate, but the recovery is calculated actually for the LAST active frmae hitting, not the first.So if you hit with a move on its first active frame, and want to know the whole recovery after that, you must add the total active frames -1 , to the recovery frames: I’ll sue dudley f.fierce as an example: It is lsited as 13+7+13.When it hits on the first active frame, there are actually 7-1+13=19 frames until he can do something else, recovery.That’s the real recovery of the move when it hits first frame.There are 13 frames of real recovery only if it hits last frame meaty.
Finally came to your damn senses. Frame data is not that hard. Just don’t get mislead by derpy information like whatever was posted on the wiki(lol) and you’ll be fine.
Edit: Smileymike did a better job of explaining ducking than I did
), because,the first frame the opponent gets up: