"Tut" - (New? Click here. Read first post)

[cliffeside]

Finally came to your damn senses. The reason why ducking works that way is BECAUSE IT’S ALL RECOVERY. Why do you think you can cancel it? That’s what cancelling is in the first place, canceling the recovery of a move with another move. The only reason why you can’t do stuff on the first couple of frames is because the Devs specifically put that in.

this is true

[Darkyellow]

How can you do an okizeme tutorial without knowing how meaties work? 34 can see Smileymike’s post at least right?

[MascotRay]

Okay, I’m getting confused by the confusion, and maybe I didn’t read Mr. X’s post correct earlier when I said I understood it to be the same. You guys are all talking about recovery frames, and I was talking about frame advantage.

All I know is that advantage on hit or on block assumes the FIRST active frame connects. If a later active frame connects, that advantage is adjusted. So a move with 3 active frames and is +2 on block assumes the FIRST active frame connects, the remaining frames play out, and it leaves you at +2 frames going into your next move. Now with that said, if the SECOND active frame is the frame that connects, there would obviously be one less frame of animation to play out, and thus you are +3 going into your next move.

So your advantage on hit or on block will never be less than the value given, but it can be more. This is why very meaty attacks can lead to combos that aren’t otherwise possible, why some moves are always safe on block, and why properly distanced moves that would otherwise be vulnerable can be spaced to be safe on block.

I realize everyone here might already understand all this, but I figured I’d clarify since I was initially confused by the discussion of recovery frames.

Does that sound right to you all, or am I misunderstanding something?

[Darkyellow]

What you said is right. You get more frame advantage on meaties because the total animation is shorter not because there is less recovery on the move. The reason why there was confusion is because people didn’t know how frame data works in fighting games.

[cliffeside]

So you’re saying Active and recovery frames never happen at the same time?
Dudley’s “Duck” must be a special case then.
c.LK
o o o o o o o o o
_ _ _ + ++ + - -
---------------Here it’s an anti 4F
The above is wrong according to you.
o o o o o o o o o o o
u u u u u u + - - - -
Here it’s an anti… 6F

pls halp HAV
ilu bby

no active and recovery never happen at the same time. what mr.X was talking about was frame advantage. the calculation for that is block/hitstun-(remaining active+true recovery). using c.lk as the example 4 active, 6 recovery, 13 hitstun. 4-1=3. 13-(3+6)=4 frame advantage.

[East]

The way duck is listed, because it doesn’t actually hit, the move is considered entire recovery. It is a special case. Normally active frames and recovery frames do not intersect.

[cliffeside]

duck has the same properties as akuma’s teleport. 0f start up, all recovery, has a period of cancellation into a specific attack (for dud, enders. for akuma, ultra 2).

[Donald_Duck]

Ummm…i don’t entirelly get the problem, but if you were talking about doing meaty cr.lk and then blocking a reversal, then cliffside is almost right, except that after a 4 frame meaty cr.lk you’d be able to block a 8 frame reversal, not 7(), because,the first frame the opponent gets up:
-there is one active frame left, which makes the first frame of the reversal
-then there are 6 frames of recovery, which make up for a total of 7, but you can still be hit on the last frame of recovery, so you are only safe against an 8 framer or slower reversal (like balrog headbutt, which you can even OS EX DP after)

o okay thanks brah.
oki coming out thursday or friday as scheduled’d.

luv u bby

also viper has to guess on he wake up
Dudley’s c.HK beats thunder knuckle.
dudley’s overhead beats burn kick
short swing blow beats everything and adds juggle on everything
ex short swing blow beasts backdash and ex seis

[cliffeside]

Ummm…i don’t entirelly get the problem, but if you were talking about doing meaty cr.lk and then blocking a reversal, then cliffside is almost right, except that after a 4 frame meaty cr.lk you’d be able to block a 8 frame reversal, not 7(so no safe meaty against viper ), because,the first frame the opponent gets up:
-there is one active frame left, which makes the first frame of the reversal
-then there are 6 frames of recovery, which make up for a total of 7, but you can still be hit on the last frame of recovery, so you are only safe against an 8 framer or slower reversal (like balrog headbutt, which you can even OS EX DP after).

oh snap. my bad. yea you’re right. i remember because exactly as you said, i couldn’t meaty viper without trading.

[Donald_Duck]

Oki is coming friday.

tons of new info.

the hour it’s rendering/processing ill upload …uh…

i mean ill post uhhhhhh
ill post what’s in the vid.
I’ve said it before but not in detail.
…uh…
2 last questons until tut post

1- should i use streets of rage music in level 3

2- does anyone want the “filter” so they dont have to read someones posts?

[MascotRay]

1- Streets of Rage, Yes.

2- No need. I just focus on what’s helpful and ignore trolling posts.

Really looking forward to it. I’ve watched the previous sections over and over. thanks.

[MeLLoW]

^^^^^

[mowr]

I think you’ll find that that is Dolan duck, not Donald.

[Donald_Duck]

Oi
Need you guys (anyone that isnt filtered (Stimpy and LightGold)

I have the following for oki

examples of opponent backdashing vs all dudley’s oki options
example of opponent reversaling all of dudley’s reversal options
example of opponent blocking low vs all dudley’s options
example of opponent blocking high vs all of dudley’s options
example of opponent focusing vs all of dudley’s optionst
example of - - - LK, and EX SSB
example of - - grab
example of - - all options when in corner (smirk2#)
Example of Dudley’s “other” high low Oki
f.HK hit confirm
c.LK hit confirm
LK short swing blow vs all SSBable chars reversals

To anyone that isnt filtered and understands this post
am i missing anything important.
dont worry about the SSB part
am I missing an important tool
the faster the responses
the faster the uploads (lol not really but i’ll be able to upload without regrets)

This video is about… 30 minutes long

[MascotRay]

Hmm… would safe jump/OS be considered part of Oki?

I can’t really think of anything else there could possibly be.

[Donald_Duck]

Hmm… would safe jump/OS be considered part of Oki?

I can’t really think of anything else there could possibly be.

yes that’s part of OKi however I’m not showing safe jumps besides 1 in the video.
reason being level 3 part 1 is "Option Selects (and safe jump set ups)

im recording that as “other oki” and “shown options”

Safe jump Oki as everyone knows = high (safe jump) grab, and empty jump short (that’s also ungrabbble wen standing

uh… oh i forgot to put down "attacks that add knockdown"
that’s pretty much self explanatory… exclamatory? idk w/e leave alone.
but srs
Each knockdown doesnt set up for both of Dudley’s Oki
1 oki = regular high low mix up of f.HK c.LK ect ect
2 oki = safe jump oki
of course Jet upper only sets up for oki 1.
of course grabs set up for both.
of course unteched, techable moves set up for both
of course midscreen moves like a juggled MGB sets up for nothing but moves them closer/farther from the corner blah blah

but ya good eyes brah
soniamproud

[Teh_Mayor]

resets maybe?

[Donald_Duck]

resets maybe?

Resets are a whole other type of mix up.

This is for Oki.
Resets are … in level 3

Level 3 (strike) - Pro
OSs (and safe jumps)
Resets
Blockstrings and Pressure (similar to Oki but standing)
Buffering

I’m thinkin about putting Buffering first and either Resets or Blockstrings and Pressure last.
Since it seems I reeeeeeally should explain buffering sooner

[MrAnnual]

Looking forward to it, boss.

[gosufailure]

^ along the lines of your note above, I started buffering ex mgb into s.hk and when I land it (rarely - I’m a noob) I feel like a boss. Looking forward to the next tuts.