I just remembered something really important.
Maybe you’ve already been using this but jin his b+2 is also a pretty good poke, and the last couple of frames also have high crush properties 
Jin is all b2,1 df1 4 and tha boot xx demon stance, lows use hellsweep d4 db4. At least thats what I see.
Okay so I’ve only started playing this game for around 3 months, team of Bruce/Miguel (I dont know I might look for a different pairing but I’m not sure who to ditch or just learn a new team all over). Anyway, last night I fought against this Jin/Hwoarang player, I think I did okay when I’m in far/mid range but once Hwoarang got in with the pressure, I cant seem to escape into that mid/far range again… I tried being patient and blocked everything while looking for an opening to either db+1 over highs but also being aware that I can eat a mid launcher if I ducked, at times even tried to read a low and downparry… What are my other options? If I tried to backdash, is it punishable? Also, most lows dont really grant much frame advantage on hit, right? Should I attempt something after getting hit by a low then?
Granted, I only played him twice with the first match went to the last round… but yeah I’d like to hear from experienced(preferably) players regarding how should I deal with similar situations, what kind of mindset I should have? etc
Merging into QA thread.
What do you generally do against flying shenanigans like against Devil Jin, Angel, and Jinpachi? I use Asuka/Dragunov.
:eek: It probably sounds like patronizing answer, but just move out of the way.
I play Mishimas all day but know how to play with a lot of characters.
Here are some tips. A lot of people are saying that Mishimas are easy to use. This is false, if you watch true top level mishima players you can see that the movement is the key. Knowing how to WD to electric, WD cancel is such a key role in playing Mishimas. So practice on learning how to master WD.
But the main key just like another fighting games wither 2d or 3d. Learn the basics of the game, like SF spacing for Tekken is important. Knowing how to punish correctly is very important.
Im wondering why people think WD is important?
I guess no one’s planning to answer my questions.
Are they silly questions? :shrugs:
You can compare it to air dashing in marvel.
You can move more easily and you can cancel your dash into an attack. It’s just a really good tool.
Everyone is capable of forward dashing or running in tekken, but in order to cancel it you first have to go neutral position and then block or attack. But when you’re wavedashing you can immediately cancel your dash into an attack. And just like airdashing in marvel it’s much faster to wavedash instead of regular dashing or running. And also when you wavedash you can always go for mixups, be it low, mid or high (launcher).
That’s why WD is considered important.
this might help, http://wtf.tekken.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9035&t=5799&p=32404#p32404
And yes most low attacks are negative, all the generic ones are negative but some character specific ones are positive.
If the low has a high crush property then it is most of the time negative on hit like jin his d+4 for example, but if it is rather slow and your opponent is standing then it is most of the time positive, like jin his db+4.
Still it’s not a general rule and you can’t always rely on it in a battle, you just kinda have to know if they are gonna be positive or negative.
Like ralenzo said WD is very important because you can attack out of it. For example, every mishima expect kaz has a 14 frame launcher in the EWGF (Kaz perfect EWGF is 13F) and when you are WD and all up in the face of the opponent and he tried to jab or side step you just EWGF for a launch. Watch youtube vids of Koreans playing mishima’s and you can see why you will want to learn WD.
Forget EWGF. You can really mix your opponent up from WD with Mishimas. Take Kaz for example. Hellsweep is a great unseeable low and Kaz players tend to wavedash into hellsweep a lot. Kaz players can also wavedash and f,f+3 for the launch once they condition you to duck. Heihachi can do the same with his f,f+2.
LMAO this non sense saying forget EWGF. How can you forget electrics? They are the best move in the game! Always been and always will be. Electrics were non sense then why do people many people WD into electrics all over the world?
I think that he probably meant that EWGF shouldn’t be your main goal.
EWGF is what makes the mishima’s so deadly and so much ‘stronger’ than the rest, but to me not entirely necessary for you to win.
You can compare it a little with option selecting in a SF4, it gives you a huge advantage if you know how to use them but you don’t necessarily need them to win.
Like Ryu vs Honda for example, if you can option select your jump with a shoryuken then the Honda player is forced to block your jump in, he can never wake-up ex headbut because the option select will beat him. You as a Ryu player can keep your momentum and pressure.
Same thing goes for EWGF, it’s not easy to pull off but it also gives you a HUGE advantage. It’s a high crushing launcher that gives you frame advantage on block.
You can still do well with just wavedashing and without using EWGF, the regular WGF also crushes high and also launches on hit, the only difference is that it’s -10 on block. So you lose your momentum.
But just like doing shoryukens in SF4, if you are able to make good reads all the time then it doesn’t really matter whether u used EWGF or WGF, the only difference then is the 1 frame startup.
Start learning WD first and then try to master EWGF.
WD is pointless if thats why you think they are good. You can attack out of a dash just as fast and it’s not a cmd input. You do not move faster from a WD than a run or dash and your dash corrects your axis, you can do EVERYTHING out of a dash you can out of a WD. If you want to learn Mishimas forget about WD, learn EWGF and slick movement(which I think entails a lot more than what people think) . If you can get extremely comfortable moving and punishing with EWGF you will be a good Mishima player. A WD is just a stylized mixup and if your lucky you might crush an attack. When you watch Koreans use WD it’s because they are so accustomed to the game and their opponent that they can show off and use it as an intimidation tactic. It has no inherent benefit over a dash, besides moving out of a spot and freaking your opponent out. It is useless if your opponent doesn’t deeply understand the game as well.
Telling someone to learn the WD as one of the most important tools to be a Mishima player is terrible advice, even Qudans the Mishima god has said that all you need is 2 WD’s to play that mixup. You need to be 90%+ with ewgf out of any given situation, know a shitload about punishing an move like and ice skater. Learn that first please.
Maybe there is a miscommunication but in order for you to EWGF you first have to do a wavedash don’t you (you have to do that motion at least) ?
How are you supposed to do an EWGF if you are not even able to do your wavedashes consistently…
Just because EWGF is so broken and overpowered doesn’t mean that you don’t need to learn all the other ‘basic’ stuff, to me WD is very basic and very important for moving around the field.
If you don’t know how to WD but only know how to do EWGF then you can practically only rely on other peoples mistakes, you can’t create an opening cause you cannot wavedash, the only thing you can do is spam a high hitting crush move that gives you +5 on block…
I’m not saying that EWGF isn’t important, because it is, especially in high level play. It’s a far reaching 14 frame punisher that’s also a launcher and safe on block.
But knowing how to move around the field with the least amount of mistakes is also very important, at least to me it is…
If you are asking that question you should probably stop posting advice for future Mishima players. NO you do not have to WD (wave dash, as in multiple crouch dash’s cancelled into each other as fast as you can do) to do EWGF. You need to crouch dash cancel, or cancel the earliest frames of crouch dash into 2. Wavedashing is not basic its not even that useful, how is it ever creating an opening using WD? I think you are seriously confused about something here? Here is a basic Mishima game plan, whiff punish with ewgf, when in range dash in EWGF/HellSweep these open the opponent up to MIDS. As your opponent gets sick of being bullied by EWGF and hit by Hellsweep they try to DUCK or crush or fast mid…whatever. Then you can start to hit them with CH’s and Mids and whiff punishing.
I never said that you have to wavedash CANCEL to do an EWGF but whatever, we will never get to an agreement anyway.
You think EWGF is important and wavedashing is not, I think both are important, but that doesn’t mean that you have to disrespect my opinion you know.
Especially when you were the one asking the question >.>
:eek: I think the big takeaway from this is that we should all play Kazuya.
Because I am totally down for that.