Remove her command jump. It’s useless, and even if you buff it, she already has the vastly superior super jump, which she needs to keep, by the way.
Does Raida need to be here?
I thought of a way to incorporate a wall jump and cling into Ibuki. She should be able to wall jump (preferably with the animation of her old command jump). It should be fast but not travel very far at all. This is where her wall cling would come in. She should be able to stick to walls, and the longer she sticks to the wall, the farther she’ll jump off of it, potentially to the point of a better wall jump than Seth’s. While she should be able to wall jump/cling off a super jump, doing so shouldn’t boost her wall jump. Chun had this mechanic in 3rd Strike, but it would feel so out of place and too powerful here.
As there are no close vs far normals, HK should definitely be her “launcher” (close HK). Should be jump and super jump cancelable, unlike in 3S. After this move, she should take a page from Decapre and be able to combo into her air throw. Ibuki is supposed to be air dominant, isn’t she?
Sweep should keep its ability to target combo into HK so she regains that launch option from 3S, but on hit/block from afar, the second hit can now whiff completely, since there is no far HK, adding to the risk/reward system that Capcom wants for SFV.
I’ve always wanted j.hp to keep opponents juggled so she could chain it into her jf.mk even on airborne opponents, ideally after her launcher. This gives her move options than just j.hk and air throw as meterless follow-ups to her launcher. I always preferred this air target combo, as I never saw the point in having 3 of them.
Hien is a decent fireball counter, and a great way to confirm into super kunai, so it should remain as it is in USF4, with the additional option of holding forward or back to manipulate the recoil, so she could potentially wall cling after this move hits or is blocked.
V-Skill: @Skiegh 's idea is pure perfection, so that.
V-Trigger: Dunno, something with Don Chan?
The specials of hers that have added the least value to her gameplan are neckbreaker (which won’t be hard knockdown in SFV, pretty damn sure), and her command jump, which has never once been useful. Raida outside of 3rd strike has questionable purpose, and needs a redesign, in my honest opinion. Though I said the same of Tsumuji’s variations as well.
Normals of hers that need to remain are: Far LP, MK, f+MK, f+HK, cl.HK (launcher), and then specifically, all of her target combos are what made her who she is. I think her normals will remain pretty similar in nature, it’s just a bit confusing on which ones will actually be useful or not in SFV.
3S Ibuki was far from underpowered, she is known very well as the queen of the mid-tiers. She has low damage, low health, but has all of the tools she needs to deal with most situations. It just so happens that Ibuki is at disadvantage against every top tier character. All for various reasons, but mostly due to Ibuki’s options being limited due to some sort of reason, be it how far they get pushed back during their pressure (yang), how their hurtbox shifts when crouching (Chun-Li / Oro), the amount of good buttons, damage and anti-air presence (Ken), or just absurd damage output against a character with too little health to deal with it (Yun). Many other reasons for each one, but that’s the gist.
3S Ibuki is designed very well, she just happens to be poorly matched against the top tiers, but she can wholly hold her own. She has all of the tools she needs. Something else too, a Third Strike exclusive thing that hinders Ibuki more than other characters, and another reason she falls off at higher levels - red parries. She is very easy to red parry. Regular parries aren’t even much of an issue for her, it’s reds that get her. I would say MOST 3S players outside of Japan haven’t experienced how brutal it can be working around a player who can consistently red parry you, but let me tell you, it is very hard. Again, she has the tools to deal with it, but it’s like walking a tight-rope, where the reward for successfully thwarting the red-parry and the reward for them getting it correctly – well, they are massively disproportionate.
While true, even within the context of what she had in SF3, she would need an entirely new special move to be able to low-confirm from a distance. Using system direction, it’s easy to see how poor her options are for confirming from any range outside of her st.MK. I’d also argue the lack of a low threat that was massively damaging is somewhat of a blessing in disguise. Personally, I find it leads to players not watching out for my own cr.MK, which gives frame advantage, something far more important to an Ibuki than mid-screen damage. It also lends to players throwing out their own lows more often, which is easily punished for significant damage and stun with f.HK. Not saying I don’t agree, but I think the design of her low options are pretty stellar. She gets advantage and a poking tool (doubles as solid meaty too). Obviously, if she had her SAIII from impact and a cancelable low she’d be OP, but again, not the best bit of fun for the character design, I’d say.
It was an easy thing to parry, but it’s actually one of the safest normals in the game on parry, only being able to be punished by 3-frame start-up moves or less. Even if you delayed a throw punish by even 1 frame, Ibuki could tech directly after (which is how most parries against this move go). Her far jab too, is also moderately safe on parry, being punished by 6-frame start-up moves only. Sounds like a lot, but if you keep in mind parry confirming time, people will often delay their punish. Her jab from the right distance is a relatively safe tool.
I don’t know why I’m saying all of that, I’m just pointing it out. In-case it wasn’t already known here. Even if it has… near no relevance. Shrugs Ibuki Factoids!
So, something else came to my mind when contemplating the concept of a more 3S-inspired Ibuki in SFV, and that’s that I am not sure how she would work in the footsie game with the idea of no proximity normals. For one, it makes her target combos inherently better, but perhaps potentially, less reliable, if they end up whiffing from far distances. The most stressing thing however, is I wonder how her footsie game is going to work (from a 3S perspective). For a 3S Ibuki, while all of her buttons have their uses, there is one button that requires the most dedication for you to master, and that’s her MK button. Master that button and you finally become a top tier Ibuki player, more or less what I’ve told anyone I’ve ever encountered who is thinking of learning Ibuki. I know I personally have limited myself to that one button on more than one occasion to practice.
Anyway, I say all that because Ibuki’s footsie game in 3S kind of revolved around one simple concept: gain advantage, move in. She is all about getting right to her distance, which ideally is about two steps beyond the proximity range of their opponent against most characters. The reason for that is simple, Ibuki possesses a proximity type normal that can be used outside of proximity; her standing Medium Kick. It has a powerful hitbox, and starts up at least 1 frame faster than any other normal from your ideal range. This means that if you get into that range, and that Ken really wants to do low forward, you win – all buttons pressed at the same time, you win. You’re also close enough to walk-in and throw, back-up and whiff punish and so on.
However, now that proximity is a distant concept, Ibuki’s gameplan (I suppose… MY Ibuki gameplan, stolen directly from who I consider to the best (though dated) Ibuki player: Aruka) just won’t work the same way. Buff her st.MK to contend with those other proximity normals and suddenly it is easily linked into her far jab if you give it the advantage I want it to have. Problematic. Most certainly problematic…
I have to say, even if I am not a character loyalist, I am a 3S Ibuki main with far too much passion for that character in THAT game. So, I am interested to see how they fit that character into V. Of course… I was excited for Ibuki in SFIV at one point too, a game I hated. Then she came out like THAT. Shivers Much like my philosophy for SFV as a whole, it holds true here as well… “Well, it can’t be worse than SFIV for me personally.”
This is a character that needs a redesign. For too long Capcom has made all their female characters cute/voluptuous/sensual/etc. It is time that real women are represented and Ibuki is the character to start with. I am thinking they do sort of a “Rosie O’Donnell” style design with her. PS, I hate Ibuki
I guess I underestimated my trolling abilities, that was obviously (or so I thought) a joke. However, the fact that you responded seriously has made my work day a bit easier, thank you.
Yes, because you contribute so much with your “trolling abilities.” :rolleyes: In that case, thank goodness you’re not a comedian. Because, none of your “jokes” are funny and you really need to on work them. Train harder.
Now, let us hope that others will continue to contribute something of value to the Ibuki discussion. Back on topic.
Don’t be mad you fell for the old “make ibuki look like Rosie gag”. As far as contributing, what are we meant to do in threads about a character that doesn’t even exist yet? Endlessly speculate on what she will look like/what abilities she will have? Pray that her Kawaii factor will be off the charts this time around?
That’s fine, but we can’t do half of those things as the character isn’t even out yet. Obviously my opinion holds no weight around here, but I think it’s kinda silly we are flooded with all these threads about characters that may not even be out until this time next year.
I know a lot of people want her to go straight back to her 3S footsies, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. I would expect her to have footsies that lead into dirty resets, but isn’t as strong in either as her other versions. I am very interested in seeing how she interacts with the SFV stun system, since it was big for her in 3S, and stun in this game can pile up even faster.
