That right there is why I don’t like/get it. Randomly getting an advantage or disadvantage is silly to me in a fighting game competition. I rather it all be based on skill and not have to worry/hope for the random factor helping either me or my competitor. It didn’t decide the round, and he didn’t give up, I wouldn’t give up either. But it certainly sucks he got a disadvantage due to a random occurrence.
Random is cool and all, and it most certainly helps make Brawl more unique with it than without. But as for me, I rather avoid random when it comes to competition. Kind of thought avoiding random when possible was a common mindset.
Yeah, he did get an advantage, but it wasn’t exactly random. Wolf got his opponent off the stage. He had control of the stage for that moment in time. The game didn’t spawn it into his grasp, but just spawned at a time where Ike failed to keep control of the stage. Wolf deserved the item. Of course, he still had to use the item to abuse the advantage. Another step which Ike could do something about.
I do see your argument. He controlled the space so he deserved it. Rightfully so, but there was no controlling what spawned and exactly where on the map. A lightning bolt that could of randomly shrank him might of spawned instead…which would of put him at a disadvantage, which he was already in.
I can’t see there being an argument about random being in the game. It’s there and it appears mostly due to items.(Could be other stuff, don’t know yet) There is no controlling what item spawns when and where, it’s all random to me. Only control is turning them off or the frequency at which they appear. And to avoid the item random factor, I rather have them off for a tournament.
I’ll leave you to your opinion with regards to it, but I do have to say if it were a lightning bolt, it’d have been a completely different evaluation process than a smashball. From what I can tell, the story went like this: Wolf knocked Ike off, item spawned. I’m not entirely sure from the video nor my knowledge of Ike, but at this point, it looks like he intentionally died rather than recover with his up+b after his f+b to get back up there faster? Or was he dead because of where the f+b left him positioned?
If he did it intentionally, my thoughts on it were if it were if it had been a lightning bolt, he probably would have thought to recover instead of bothering to kill himself to get back on the stage quick enough. He would have played it out and seen how Wolf would’ve handled the item.
Of course, if he was doomed from the start, Wolf wouldn’t have immediately picked up the lightning bolt at first anyway, as if it did only shrink Ike, he was on his deathbed anyway. Of course, he could’ve gambled anyway and burned off the item so Ike didn’t have a chance to get at it with spawn invincibility. Or they both could have played bait games around it 'til one picked it up or it vanished. The possibilities are endless. It just so happened it was a smashball, and it played out the way it did. Every item can have this kind of intense but quick mindgame in that regard, from my experience, anyway.
My point was no one knew it what it would be, or when it would spawn, or where for that matter. Sure it makes it exciting, suspense is great. But rather not have the random in competition.
I understand your point, as well as your opinion and accept that. My point was simply that while it was a random event, the outcome still has to be strategically planned on both sides. Or at least should have to be. It’s a very on-the-fly strategic shift, and may require a quick decision that may be incorrect. But it’s still a strategic evaluation after a random event. That’s where I see the benefit.
Seriously, dude. Step back. Relax. Realize who’s on your side here. I don’t understand why you posted like this.
Firstly, none of the assist trophies put the user at a technical disadvantage. I don’t see the risk, ever, of using an assist trophy.
Secondly, I simply ask if you or anyone else thinks that the lightning is fair, or skill-based. The effects are random, and the benefits are quite large.
There was no forcing of anything here. Has this debate so embittered you that anyone commenting on something you said is automatically anti-item?
That sounds great…but don’t forget it gives someone an advantage/disadvantage…and that it’s also random. Random advantage is just wrong for a competition. I’m glad you acknowledge it’s random, but can’t you see it being a bit wrong for a competition when it’s completely avoidable?
I totally see the strategic elements it can add, just like supers do to other fighters. It’s a completely different fight when someone has a bar in 3s for example. That same element can be had in Smash with items, it’s just that it comes from a random event which can hurt the skill competition by adding luck into it.
Yeah, Keits already said what needed to be said in that respect. Ergo, the rest of my post isn’t going to be really talking about the game and trying to “convince” people but rather just dealing with the stupidity of some posts’s (Chaos’s aside).
Yes, this is wholly convincing.
Since you seem to be scrubby yourself and the Brawl Code thread does exist, how about you “peace me”. I mean, obviously, if any moron can do it and you’re the moron that’s trying to prove an assine point, then you should be the one to beat me and all of us.
Yes, because I’ve certainly never beat people with items off before in Brawl and you certainly weren’t attempting to praise me as being better than Kwaza to prove a point before.
Yeah, that never happened.
And of course raph should win at this point, he’s had the game longer than most of us and has decided on a main character.
If we’re going to post things horribly out of context, then I will turn this whole into a link as it needs more exposure.
Basically, the gist of what I got from your horrible–in both content and presentation–post was that items provide an advantage more often than not.
If it weren’t for the fact that I thought you a moron already, then stating something so obvious would convince me.
See? This is what a good argument should look like.
I doubt it since I’ve mostly played with items are as far as items are concerned in all iterations of Smash.
You should go back to your Penguin avatar; his snobbery fits you like a glove.
Now you’re just be an egregious troll. If it wasn’t for your join date, then I’d be pretty sure were just Embryo.
So you’re a sore loser that attempts to be (even more) pathetic instead of just learning to avoid and defend against things?
This explains so much.
adds f_man to Ignore List
Meh. Never said it wasn’t ironic.
It hate how people say that like it completely invalidates the argument instead of just making both parties look like assholes.
I think I can handle that, but can SWF? Especially if they’re trying to convince people so that they can “enforce” things. I mean, at least pretending to be nice would get you somewhere.
Man, if you guys read any of f_man’s legitimate posts in any other thread, you’d see that the stuff he posted in this thread was just horribly sarcastic trolling.
Seriously dudes…if you absolutely cannot STAND losing to any kind of “randomness” EVER, then picking Smash as a tournament game is one of the **stupidest **decisions you’ll ever make, ITEMS OR NOT.
The reason I see that the random advantage doesn’t seem like a problem, is that there are sacrifices to be made. Rarely, if ever, does an item spawn on top of someone, giving them the item with absolutely zero effort. If an opponent is off stage, an item might spawn, and the player now has a choice in either obtaining the item or finishing the job. There are several factors to take into account and no one instance is really identical. Also, the item that spawned might not give an immediate strategic advantage for any sacrifice. Or it could be used to bait his opponent. That’s where I see it being an additional skill. But again, it’s something I can only predict. I have no way of truly knowing until we see just how it is.
I don’t think having elements of randomness in a game make it un-competitive, as it seems to be argued. The better players will find a way to win, and if somebody loses with items on when they would have won with them off, then maybe they just aren’t as good a player as they thought – or more realistically, they’re only better at a different game than the one they are currently competing in.
There is no item in the game that can spawn that is so random and overpowered as to completely break the game – and if there is, which we are trying to figure out, then that item should be taken out. A large portion of the items only give players more options and strategy – picking up a laser gun changes some moves for others, for example. It doesn’t give you a definite advantage, it just gives you more options. Even the bumper, which can KO well, stays out and can be used against you as well, thus balancing out its power like a double edged sword.
