Tournament Talk Back - "Randomtivity"

Classic Fighting Games Super Smash Brothers Brawl
41

Playing the game with four players is actually something that was discussed here, as a separate bracket. And items by default aren’t on very high, but nice try attempting to anger me or something. Not gonna work.

And thus far, in Brawl, the random nature of items has not swayed the results. If you’re talking about the tournament we just had as “all the proof needed”, then you’ll be disappointed to know that the results were just the opposite of what you believe, the good players won and kept winning regardless of the items. Again, I don’t care, I can play it both ways. I’m just saying what happened.

Also, Smash is not a traditional fighting game, as I said earlier. At least, not in the original form of the game. Rules were changed to make it into a pseudo-2D fighter. It was never meant to have a “competitive scene” in the first place. So your comment about “if a perfectly good competitive game had a wacky setting it should be turned off” depends completely on whether the game was made with the wacky setting in mind.

If Smash didn’t have items from the beginning and they were added later, then sure. Using a traditional fighting example, if Guilty Gear had an option to put in items added to it but was not the original intent, then sure. But Smash was created with items in mind. So, why go after people for trying to play the game closer to how it was intended?

This is my opinion on the subject. I’ve heard yours, now you’ve heard mine. Let’s leave it at that, because all the posts in the world aren’t going to change minds on either side, correct?

Or…Kwaza had a good match? I’m not saying that items didn’t play a factor because I didn’t see it, but perhaps the player stepped it up and won? Or The Damned had a rough match? Perhaps a bad character matchup? There’s a lot of factors you’re leaving out, man.

EDIT: Wow, the other people just owned your whole post.

42

kwazaa wasnt in the brackets so Im guessing wasn’t in the tournament

43

Just so you know,

KwAza did not enter the main tournament. I announced I’d hold a 2nd smaller tournament while the first one was still running, and KwAza decided to join at that time (he hadn’t been online before).

The main tournament had 28 people. The round robin had only 8 people (most of the other people were tired, including raph_strkyer and ceirnian).

44

If thats so then why use stock instead of time? Why turn off healing items? Why turn off capsules and crates? The pro item people still want to turn off items, just not all items. The reason? That is because the benefit was incredibly noticeable with healing items. It is less noticeable with non-healing items but there is still random advantages are given.

45

first of all you don’t get a very good statement across when you star with “u r a noob” at least “a” is a real word

and second how are you so sure that if we ran this 100 times it would always come out the same. I would not by any mean say that this is a list of professionals so they are bound to make mistakes, so there is no way that for 100 rounds it will be consistent.
once again stating opinion as fact.

46

They decided to use stock, and they didn’t turn off any items. And even if some items are found to be broken, that wouldn’t justify removing all items. Just as the switch lets you turn them all off, it lets you turn some of them off as well.

47

Using stock over time is a preference, as I see it. I know I for one just like stock better. If turning items off is your preference, then fine.

And the reason pro-item people want to turn off some of the items is because they can already prove how unbalanced they are. For everything else, it’s unknown. There are items like the Fan that I can tell you right now are broken. You can trap the opponent in a semi-infinite, Marth can use it for a guaranteed KO by pulling them in at high % and Dolphin Slashing point blank, and so on. But for a good majority of the items it’s not for sure that they immediately unbalance the game. That’s why they want them to be tested. If all items prove to be broken, then turn them off for competitive play. But it’s something people here feel should be tested rather than assumed.

And while I understand that most of SWF thinks that enough testing has been done, SRK does not. Each side is entitled to their opinion. You or anyone else isn’t going to make the entire SRK Smash community go “Well darn, we’re wrong and we should listen to you guys.” It’s not going to happen. Period. So, instead of making posts with blatant attempts to flame people for a non-existent stupidity from wanting to try things out, the anti-item folks should just let it be and allow the tests to be run.

48

Why are healing items broken? Give me proof. Give me a good explanation. How are they already proven to be broken? They are unbalanced how? Is it because they can give one person a huge advantage? Couldn’t both players have an equal chance at getting that healing item that gave a huge advantage?

49

copied from other thread

if anything

Mario Bros with lag is a big no no.

Having to dodge all the shells and crabs (when thrown are unblockable mind you) can get really hard online. It an interesting stage because the way you fight your opponent drastically changes, but online, once you get pinned, your usually done…

its a fun stage dont get me wrong, but its really REALLY hard to take seriously. I have felt this way for a while now, but i wanted most of you to experience it yourselves. The Damned and Ceirnian should know what im talking about.

50

Again, they didn’t turn off any items. Where is this coming from?

51

gameboybob how is lip’s stick broken? or a single food or metal box?

just wondering thought id ask you cause you know everything.

52

that is the problem now, some people want items and FS in, but then ban other things? “why don’t you just play it how it came, no tweaking of the options at all?” does come to mind.

Fan is broken, can possibly infinite and then kill someone. same with FS no? (not an infinite, but possible to insta-kill) Even without the possibilty of insta-kill, you then can go back to people’s previous arguments and say: you both have to fight for items, you both have as even as a chance to get it, etc. etc.

perhaps it should either be all ON or all OFF…

54

See, I don’t think healing items are broken. But others do, and that’s who I’m referring to, not myself personally.

55

It’s apparent in the video that when Wario uses the Assist Trophy that Tingle comes out well before he even grabs the Warp Star. Wario should know what Tingle’s ability is and that is to throw some various items around the screen which includes a large amount of hammers. He took the risk vs. reward of taking the Star and losing his control of space instead.

Better yet, why don’t we just ask Keits what happened since he was the one playing Wario and lost in that video. He’s the only who will know what he was actually thinking when he did that.

56

I was an advocate for items in Melee for the entirety of my tourney carreer. I watched how items came to be, and eventually fell. Over the course of the game’s life, it was determined that certain items failed to prove a decent level of risk vs. reward and were removed. And while my assumption is that these items may be the same way in Brawl, I admit to having unfounded assumptions without actually seeing them do just that. I can’t say what ANY item does in Brawl to grossly affect an outcome beyond the point of skillful use, and I don’t know, at this stage in the game’s life, if they ever will. The only method for determining that is solid proof. Just because the heart containers felt broken in Melee does not mean they are broken in Brawl. If we determine they’re broken in Brawl, they will be removed from play. So far, I haven’t seen a reason to do so with ANY item, and I won’t pass judgment until I see concrete evidence in BRAWL that supports it.

57

I think lag needs to be addressed… Until Nintendo fixes their server systems (if that day ever comes) I think tournaments will do better regionally; or at the very least there should be lag playtests before the tourney starts so that entrants can decide whether or not to risk entering the full tournament.

58

hell that keits match with the hammers isn’t even as bad as this one

which is absolutely hilarious

59

Yeah, that’s a completely convincing way to attempt to save face after your sarcastic, elitist bullshit.

Really, you already have so many points against you here, including being the leader of that elitist back room on your forum, that you could at least try and be like alphazealot and be, I don’t know, not a condescending asshole and speak without being sarcastic.

As someone whose sarcastic like 80% of the time, I know that it isn’t useful to for trying to convince people unless they’re idiots and all it really does is piss them off once they see through.

That happened to me in the SF tournament before Brawl came out. Peach caught my Zelda with a fan and I got stuck in it until 160%.

It’s kind of ironic that the lesser knockback of it now makes it more difficult to get out of.

I’m surprised you can still see through that caveman’s head of hair of yours considering your typing “skillz”.

You could at least be more eloquent if you’re trying to put more word’s in my mouth for a positive–in your shaggy view–cause.

For the record, of outside what nasir clarified, at the moment, Kwaza IS a better player than me, if only slightly.

One big thing he has going for him is a constant main, Fox, while I’m still experimenting with people that I like. I was experimenting with Luigi all last night when he beat me.

Besides that, you also say it like better players can never lose earlier on in the tournament. Even if he was in the brackets, earlier on, he could have been beaten by Raph_Stryker and then beaten early on by Ceirn–I finally didn’t misspell your name–in the Losers Bracket and then he would have been out of the tournament anyway. (And even though that’s exactly how I lost/“placed”, that isn’t tout my own horn.)

I’d tell you not to be stupid, but it appears I’d be far too late.

Yeah, that’s…unlikely to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

I still think the type of connection has more to do with lag than the location, considering that AF lives in California and seems to have a horrible connection with all other California players (myself included).

I’ve had that happen so many times, but I just shake my head since it was so avoidable in this case, especially since Wario can eat bombs and it was on-screen before it hit him.

Anyway, that was geniunely fun, nasir. Thank you for taking the time out yesterday to run it.

I look forward to next week’s if you’re ready, especially since I just unlocked the Spear Pillar and am about to unlock Electroplankton.

60

What risk is there? You lose twice and go out?

There’s no entry fee. There’s no prize at stake.

We are trying to see what a good EVO standard should be. By not entering and showing what you can/can’t do, even in lag or not, you are reducing any validity to your statements because you are refusing to back up your point of view, whatever it may be.

If you refuse to enter any tournaments, take any action… and EVO rules turns out something to be you don’t like, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

61

Man, there was some quality, good old classic Damned ownage in that post. :rofl: