This is going to be a issue as a community that everyone will have to come to terms with.
I run tourneys and lans in my area.
For now until this issue is voted upon I will be hosting tournaments in my area with the settings
ITEMS OFF
MAP HAZARDS OFF
My standpoint on this is items take away from the complete skill and gameplay of this game. Some items are weaker than others yes. But Items definitely can make a player a pure juggernaut if the player is knowledgeable and skillful enough. The only way to truly stop a item rampage is by grabbing him.
I personal think the game plays perfect on OFF settings. It makes all the stages more playable and compliments the detailed gameplay this game has to offer. IMO this game literally starts looking like a dance when playing 1v1. Its very detailed and there are many different counters. The possibilities of scenarios are endless without the items and hazards.
To make things easy tho I suggest Items OFF. Though we could leave them on and ban some or many of the items from spawning since you can turn individual items off. We can also turn items spawn down to spawn less frequent because it seems that many items spawn during a match on normal. The 2 items I dislike much that I think are far too powerful for a game are the razors claws and the axe. The laser bees are pretty powerful also but are tolerable. But they can put you in a juggle for a while if your opponent is mean. I have not seen The Great Mighty Scythe yet so Idk how mean that is yet. But I do play items off usually always so that explains why I havent seen it. Along with this by having ITEMS ON, it makes sackboy’s level 3 completely insane because he not only gets to kill everyone and pop bubbles full of meter orbs, but it also spawns bubbles with items in which sackboy can have a part by killing everyone gaining meter nearly up to LEVEL 1, and grabbing an item to slap everyone around with to gain more meter. That there makes the most unexplainable and unpredictable match to play in and also does not compliment the skill and gameplay this game has to offer. Other than all of that, I have no complaints on items.
Why map hazards off? Well to me its perfect for competitive play. No complaints about the screen moving or random shit coming out. It’s only you and your opponent. Plus it makes Aldens Tower a playable stage for Tournaments if we vote to have hazards off. It starts the game at the very top of the tower. Which is a very good setting that has platforms and boundaries which is good for competitive play.
I presume everyone wants to play stock instead of time for tournaments.
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This is just my 2 cents, and I think it is a very good topic that us as a community need to consider and make a decision for this game to be taken seriously into E-sports and to be a long lasting competitive game. This game is already looked at as a smash ripoff in the eyes of the industry and the rest of the fighting game community at SRK and smashboards.
I don’t want to fight without some pocket sand (murder crows), I love them and its a great tool. Everyone hates on items but the axe builds 40-50 ap in one series of hits, thats huge! Why forgo something that enhances gameplay?
As much as i want to agree, this can cause HUGE tournament delays and can even cause problems due to the fact that there’s no timer in stocks…matches could go on as long as they want. 2 keep away players sounds awful.
Items need to not be banned. They are balanced in the fact that they Eject AP, and give combo opportunities to character that don’t have them. Hazards should be on too. They are on timers and not at random. Learn to use then to your advantage.
You’re under the impression this game is on a Nintendo console. This game is too different for the same rules to apply. Items should be on. Items is the only reliable means to take AP away from the opponent. Throws don’t take away a satisfactory amount and only a handful of characters process moves that do. Hazards should also stay on. Some hazards also take away AP and they are not random. They are easily avoidable if you paid attention to the cues and you can use them to you advantage like the Buzz in the Dreamscape stage.
Did this guy seriously post 2 threads talking about similar things? Good God.
Items on, stage hazards on. Let the community decide for itself what is appropriate and inappropriate for the tournament scene, and work with them to come to a solid conclusion as to tournament rules and formats. Banning should be the last resort to correct imbalances for competition sake. The game designers spent MUCH more time deciding on appropriate formats for the game, so we should adopt their standard until otherwise noted.
The only tournament setting I think we should have is random stage select. Everything else is fine by me, I would like a game mode that is stock AND timed so that there is a limited life resource and running the clock would be a viable strategy for keepaway characters, but that doesn’t exist, so I can understand time being the default game mode just for the fact that tournaments need to be able to plan around the game.
Seriously though. Random stage select. I fucking hate the thought of this game being a counter pick game. I don’t want stages to get banned or have “Oh, this is a counterpick stage so you’re not allowed to play it in the first round, both players strike out stages they don’t like,” or something equally stupid because counterpicking character+stage is so good. I hate the Smash stage system and don’t want it to have any part in this game.
But they are unbalanced in the fact that they are random, and can randomly help whoever is closer to them when they spawn. Why add randomness when you can just take them out completely? Giving characters longer combos from items is not a good reason to have them, those characters combos are the length they’re at for a reason. Not to mention longer/more AP combos are being invented daily.
The games are not the same but they are the same enough to know that items are completely random and add no skill to matches. If items are the only reliable means to take away AP, then that means no character takes away AP faster than another, it’s already balanced! The anwser to that is building AP faster than your opponent. That is better than adding something totally random like items.
Honestly if this game wants to succeed, and grow a fanbase, it can’t have items. Every other fighting game doesn’t want items for the same reasons, they are random as hell. VERY VERY RANDOM.
I know this isn’t a fighting game (per se) but the same logic still applies, items randomly drop anywhere and can be really good or really bad items. There’s no skill whatsoever. It takes away sooo much from the game.
also stage striking in smash was very successful, used for like 10 years with barely any complaining.
Aren’t items spawned in certain places at a fixed time? If so then they shouldn’t be banned as they don’t really add that much randomness like in smash.
They’re still random in the sense that the item is random, and that they can heavily benefit the person who happens to be next to it. I mean it’s not like people will be camping item spawn spots. If they do, my god this game will be lame.
The fact that you guys need items to support your character saddens me.
Items ain’t random. They spawn in pre-determine locations on the stage and items in this game isn’t some magical win button. RPGs rockets misses on crouchers, murder of crows is a slow shot and only goes one direction, you lose your defensive options when using melee weapons like Spear of Destiny and Razor Claws. The items have flaws of their own.
And no, it’s not already balanced. Taking AP is part of the metagame. Taking AP from a throw depending on how much meter a character has. Taking AP with items has more consistent results
It’s call item hoarding. Such an element is common in competitive arena style shooters. Knowing when and where an item spawning adds to the strategy like everything else.
I think kill limit should be the way to go with this game. 2v2 with a Kill limit of 5 seems to work just fine in order to have an effective match without wasting people’s time. Stock matches take forever in a 1v1 match, but should also work with 2v2 for the same reasons. Time matches aren’t very good imo, because the keep away game is quite powerful in PSA with the right teams. With limited ways of building AP against character designed to keep themselves at a distance, timed matches would be extremely boring affairs, but tournaments would run smoother.
Keep away SHOULD be viable. You know how you build AP against a keepaway team? Get in. Just like every fighting game ever. I don’t care if you think it’s boring, it’s bullshit to play a game mode that makes other styles of play weaker just because you don’t like that style of play.
People also keep telling me that 1v1 is boring and other garbage, and yet it’s the only mode I have fun in. Plain and simple having a timer not only keeps things in order, it adds a level of strategy to keepaway characters, which they NEED since they can very easily be put in a serious disadvantage they will either have a hard time or simply won’t be able to recover from. Running out the clock is the reward for playing a solid zoning game and I feel they should have that option.
I like items. I’ts a good way of depleting AP and they do have their disadvantages. I like the idea of gameplay involving guarding item spawns, much like in Quake where you control ammo and weapon spawns (although those are items remain static in Quake). Also, not only guarding item spawns but knowing that someone will go for an item creates a nice dynamic to the game
As for format, that would have to depend on the organizer and how many people participate. I personally feel Kill Limit would be the shit.
I am on a few fB groups for the game that have 100 ppl each on. Along with being on allstararena.com
it seems between everyone half of everyone is say No to everything, the other half says yes.
I personally just would like a standard set.
The only complaints I have is that on Normal Items spawn too fast. Which I think should be turned down.
But as the first reply said
[INDENT=1]“I don’t want to fight without some pocket sand (murder crows), I love them and its a great tool. Everyone hates on items but the axe builds 40-50 ap in one series of hits, thats huge! Why forgo something that enhances gameplay”[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]Not sure how items enhance gameplay? Items make it so you cant perform moves and you cant grab. So it takes away from gameplay to a certain degree. Yes items take away AP points but some items are completely OP juggernaut style. The Axe, The Claws, they make you release more AP than any of them it seems. And they get 3 hits Each. All the other items are great… but I still think items take away from the core gameplay that the game has to offer[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]And on stages… hazards off the the best deal IMO. Im not sure… but i think the hazards make the camera zoom out and to me… i feel its aggitating… especially in a 1v1. but if the camera doesnt zoom out like i think it does. It still sucks because if you and your opponent are close then you cant see the whole stage because it zooms in so much so the timing and landing of the hazards are debatable on a players point of view[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]But Overall all I’m saying is a standard needs to be set. People on allstar arena have suggested lowering AP gain, and playing 2 stock.[/INDENT]
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[INDENT=1]3 stock is my vote.[/INDENT]
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It’s provides risk management. Do you forgo the use of a characters tools to make use of the benefits the item provides? No, it doesn’t take away for anything and in fact add new layers such as item hoarding as I mentioned before.
Hazards ain’t the big deal you make out to be. Camera zoomes with certain hazards like Ares in Hades, Metal Gear Ray in LocoRoco stage and Buzz in Dreamscape. Both won’t be problems if you simply paid attention to what’s happening around you. You miss the cue that’s your fault. I personally feel the standard set by Superbot is a fine one.
Items seem to be entirely designed from the ground-up to work with the rest of the game, in a proper competitive setting, especially given how people tend to complain about there not being enough AP drain. Hazards are… kind of iffy, but that’s just assuming what Buzz does. Any other hazard, I don’t see much problem with.