^–(to Vegaman) Don’t be suspect. Everybody is all up in arms about the concept of over-application of the rule. If we’re not in a world where people can talk freely with the TO and sort out any confusion, we need to get there quickly. This rule should be applied judiciously.
But there are several notable instances that no one can defend:
random select at TS
fanatiq mailing it in vs fellow AGE player ChrisG
I’ll give you that VxG and NLBC might be questionable, but WHY ARE THERE QUESTIONS? Seriously, anybody trying to win that way is going to blind-pick their “secret counter-team” and then there are no questions.
agree. fuck it. im drinking right now. lets just drink and continue playing games. i enjoy a little back and forth every now and then when it comes to fgc politics, but ive said my piece and youve said yours. lets drank
If two people are left, they have the privilege to split pot and mess around if they want. If it was me and another player left, I wouldn’t feel like trying/make it a good game either. What’s the point? I’ll be getting the same amount anyway. I understand they should entertain you stream monsters but lets compare…
Their mindset VS Stream monsters
THEIR MINDSET
we will be getting the same amount anyway so why bother trying, plus we’re tired.
STREAM MONSTERS
we want to see a good game damn it, we don’t care if you guys get paid the same.
If one of you stream monsters were the only top 2 left, I doubt you’d try that hard after you’ll be pot splitting. If you say you’ll try as hard then you’re lying to yourself.
SOLUTION
Let them pot split but the winner gets the bonus.
pot is $100, normally both will get $50,
if we were to put the solution to work, it would go like this
pot is $100, both will get $40 each, winner will get the extra $20.
Im pretty unaware of how things are handled outside the FGC. But don’t some other communities have ranking systems that help prevent such a thing? If we can make it so theres a consequence to losing to someone beyond tournament placing, I think people who only care about money will be forced to play better.
Maybe we can have a player ranking system that helps tournament seeding for larger tournaments (just an idea, Im sure something else can be thought of) and if you lose to someone (regardless of who you pick) ranked lower than you, your seeding becomes worse. I think something like this gets around the counter-pick problem.
This is exactly the problem, being entitled and not having any regard towards other individuals. Maybe one should think about people streaming the event and the amount of work they put in instead of screwing everything up by fooling around in the finals.
But one thing I’ve noticed is that some people do not possess any sort of social intelligence to understand how such actions are detrimental. If the players participating give a “I don’t really give a damn” - vibe then why should anyone else care about the event? But at least you got 50 bucks for your next meal right, might get another 10 from a raffle and a fiver from donations. It’s all about getting dat cash.
@King999 I love how you just DISAGREE without saying a word. real smart. tch tch…typical I don’t agree with you but I can’t back it up so I just disagree and hide… lmao
I agree with that but it is what it is, there’s nothing anyone else can do, not even EVO STAFF! If all of you, including the evo staff demand that the top 2 play it out like it’s the grand finals at EVO, they still wouldn’t care. they might pick their real team and play it out but will do things they normally wouldn’t do if the pots weren’t split.
the only SOLUTION is if all tournament organizers do this…
**SOLUTION
Let them pot split but the winner gets the bonus.
pot is $100, normally both will get $50,
if we were to put the SOLUTION to work, it would go like this
pot is $100, both will get $40 each, winner will get the extra $20. **
This right here is a much better solution than the current attempts to legislate, if they establish a global ranking with cash bonuses at the end of the season and make the different in ranking points large enough between first and second place that alone would go a long way in making people take finals more seriously.
Problem is that would actually require a couple things, to begin with it would show actual organization in the fgc which is apparently anathema for some people, because organization and esports are evil or whatever the fuck, honestly I think one of the biggest impediments for the progress of the fgc is how enamored some people are with that whole grassroots thing, but that is besides the point at this moment.
The biggest issue at hand right now is the current approach, colluding seems to be turning into a blanket term that does little to address the real issue, if tos want players to take finals more seriously they should make them WANT to, the aforementioned solution of establishing global rankings with cash prices for the top placers would do that, whereas saying if we dont like what we pick youre not getting paid is needlessly confrontational, and quite frankly its a lazy option, it doesnt address the issue, (that being why players dont take the finals more seriously) so rather than curing the disease it only alleviates the symptoms, but creates a new slew of problems in its wake. Not the least of which being that it lends itself to ambiguity, people say just play to win, but its not that simple, the reason being by doing that that we are making it ok to punish players for not breaking any rules simply because we dont like what they do.
Is there an issue? Yes.
Should it be addressed and fixed? Yes.
Does punishing players for picking who they want to pick fix it? No, not really.
I think picking random and throwing matches should be banned, specially the latter I think should be enforced with extreme prejudice in fact. But as far as forcing people to pick who we want and play how we want I dont feel thats something we should be turning into rules to impose upon other people. Not where there are other options, options that would encourage the players to adhere to a code of conduct rather than forcing them to act like we want them to.
I think its a good thing that the issue is being addressed, I think its a good thing that were finally getting some attempts at actually organizing, but I also think that this particular attempt at a solution is rather flawed, and its mandatory enforcement is in turn proving problematic and rushed.
@TheWanderer I already said my piece if you care to read my posts. I’d basically be repeating myself if I responded to you. I’ll just say that you don’t get it.
All you said was make the top 2 play it out like it was EVO grand finals and they should act professional just like any other events/sports. They should appreciate the organizers providing stream and all that stuff. When there’s a problem, you don’t tell sob stories or fix the mid level problem, you go to the root.
sorry to break it to you but all the things you say will not work. All the things I said I have answered all your posts and offered a SOLUTION to the problem that is collusion.
Come to think of it. Here are 2 solutions
SOLUTION 1: No pot splitting, let them play it out. If they agree to no pot splitting but later get caught In the back/bathroom somewhere splitting then punishments will be given out.
SOLUTION 2: Pot splitting, but winner gets a certain %(see my example for pot splitting solution)
example: pot is $100, both will get $40 each, winner will get the extra $20.
these are not meant to be 100% prevention but these are a lot better than what most people are offering.
@TheWanderer But nobody cares about pot-splitting itself. What they do with their prize money after it’s over is their business. The rule is in place so that players play seriously instead of giving everyone a farce of a match. At least make it look like you earned the reward, and not disrespect those who put up that money, the players, and the spectators.
The rule’s not complicated, but people are over-complicating it, bringing us to where we are now. The fact that Evo’s had the rule since the beginning and some people are up in arms over the rule being instituted at other major events is telling.
I can’t believe people are actually arguing about whether or not we should hand out punishments to players or TOs who are either involved in collusion or allow it. This is a good thing for the community as a whole, and it’s a core tenet of any serious sport ever played.
The fact that people are mad about a rule saying, “Cheating is bad”, is an indication of the maturity level and intelligence of some members of the FGC.
“Collusion of any kind with your competitors is considered cheating. If the Tournament Director determines that any competitor is colluding to manipulate the results or intentionally underperforming, the collaborating players may be immediately disqualified. This determination is to be made at the sole discretion of the Tournament Director. Anyone disqualified in this manner forfeits all rights to any titles or prizes they might have otherwise earned for that tournament.”
When pot splitting is involved players will intentionally underperform. After checking the article, I was off.
As for as fixing this problem…
Most of the times, only sponsored players make it to grand finals or top 8. You rarely see a nonsponsored get to grand finals let alone top 3. Therefore what can be done is have wizard/evo staff talk to all the SPONSORS.
Think of the sponsors as the parents and the players that are sponsored as their kids. What do you do when the kids act stupid/cause trouble? You go and tell their parents. The parents will then tell their kids to play fair(play for real), and if they listen, the kid that did better than his brother in this case his teammate will get paid more/better bonus while the kid that didn’t do good or lost will earn a small amount.
This only happens when two players of the same sponsor are in GF or top 8. If one of them want to help the other and sandbag to let other one have 15 seconds of fame, let them, therefore we go back to the PARENTS…
This will not only help them level up quicker but prevent them from sandbagging. overall it’s all up to the SPONSORS to speak to their kids.
