dood noone takes sbo seriously anymore. it’s based too much on luck with single elimination. yes this is coming from a credible source in the tekken scene.
You didn’t quote, you name dropped. Please bring the quote where he said the reason he likes American tourneys more is specifically because they are double elim. All I remember dude saying is that double elim gave him a chance to feel out Wongs fei long and was therefore able to beat him. He also said he likes American tourneys better but that’s because dude likes the atmosphere created by the players.
Now I’m not 100% sure I remember everything right so back up your name drop with an actual quote please.
Single elim is dope to watch, but its really really stupid for a “big” tourney
Single elim is arcade format.
If it’s a major tourney where you have set-up’s and all that then fine. But when it comes to THE TEST, then single elim is the way to go.
You come to win; not to “get some good games in”. That’s what casual set-up’s are for.
There will always be a winner no matter what format. Might as well make things alot faster, more meaningful, consistent and more challenging…not make things longer when you’re still gonna get that one winner. It’s like winning the lottery only to find out that it will be done again and the winner of THAT lottery will mean your prize isn’t guaranteed anymore…that’s shit. (Yes I know lottery’s are based on luck, but that’s not the point I’m drawing from).
Now quit yer yappin’.
Not to mention it’s not like single elim cheats the best player(s) out of victory or anything like that. I mean, who’s gonna make it to the end, the worst player/team?
Who is the better player overall is subjective, but I think there are a few things you can say for certain about single game/elimination. If a player is on fire they will be more successful in this format, and it promotes more character diversity.
Compare Evo 3s results, where 4-5 Chuns in top 8 is common, to SBO where Makoto is arguably a more dominant character than Chun
So if you come to win and are confident in you skills you want to minimize random scenarios as much as possible, making it multiple matches aids in this, not single match…K? The idea of making it speed up, and making it more consistent and challenging is so off base and not even worth discussing.
Pherai - Ya agreed, I think what your showing kind of proves what I mean to say. In reality Chun is top tier and will win more often than not, but put her and the user in a single match situation and now that chance is smaller, so to me you are taking away consistency for entertainment.
Or the FIFA World Cup, the most watched sporting event on the planet, which is also single elim.
but the games are multiple repititions of set scenarios…
Its a really hard comparison to make, like I can kind of see it, but these are 2 minute matches vs long games.
Well, I can only speak of soccer (football) because I’m italian and obviously that’s the only sport I know anything about, but double elims are also used in soccer for multiple tournaments (for example the Champions League, which is an annual competition between the top ranked european teams), however, double elimination is NEVER used for finals or the most important competitions.
I’m not against either format, I like both because, especially for fighting games, they have different things to offer, but as far as “GET HYPE” gets, I think single elimination is far superior…
I find it somewhat depressing to watch an awesome match, which might end with some amazing comeback, only to realize: “Oh, there’s another set… None of this shit mattered”.
He’s saying that you can’t compare a 90 min game of football to a 2min game of 3rd Strike.
SBO is an amazing display of skill but I admit it’s sometimes a bit underwhelming when you see a player you’d been rooting for just go out like that,no second chances.I suppose thats why they hype it up so much, with the smoke clouds and booming 3s soundtrack(Q and Akumas theme playing at insane volumes).Also the 3v3 format is what saves the problem of single elim somewhat.
I suppose because their culture is so deeply rooted in Arcades where you get 1 go and you have to make it count no matter what,it justifies single elim tournaments.This ain’t changing anytime soon and none of you should care because you will probably never experience their scene truely and will therefore not be able to make such harsh comments about SBO.
With all of this back and forth I think the single elimination aspect of Japanese tournaments is why Japanese players are consistent. They are not using whole matches to feel out their opponents like in the US. In the US we are pretty much forced to do multiple match tournaments because of how little practice most players end up getting througout the year. Very few scenes have arcades that they can just walk to everyday and play. In Japan you can walk into any decent arcade and find healthy competition. There’s obviously exceptions to this with some of them like Dan being thrashed by S.Kelly’s Cammy at Evo though S.Kelly has a very arcade scene built play style that is probably unlike most of the Japanese players in the first place.
Azrael said it best during the arcade only days of SFIV (not an exact quote) “Everyday at the arcade in Japan is like Evo.” These guys can basically play the Evo worthy competition every day from morning till night and up until the morning again. Especially back during the 3rd Strike days certain players like Kokujin had to stop playing 3S for a while just so they could actually do real life shit again. That’s why they can play the way they play. They are constantly leveling their game up as soon as they get off work until the late night and doing it again the next day. So when a tournament comes around it’s not as random as a single elimination event would be in the US. You have 7 days of the week to train for a single elimination tournament so by the time the tourney comes around you know what to expect from a player and a matchup. There’s not as much need to feel out your opponent and test waters and put a real gameplan together because you’ve already been doing it for 7 days straight. That’s why they are able to adapt so fast when they come over here and play us. Do you really need a 2/3 set when you are practicing that often? Not really. Would a 2/3 or longer set prove the better player? Probably though again…if you have access to competition like that 7 days of the week you should just have your shit together by tournament time.
I mean everyone knows Evo would be the most random shit ever if it was a one match event up until top 8. Evo 2k7 was about the most random results for 3S ever with people I had never even heard of making top 8. Some people that I didn’t even hear were at Evo the next year. Especially considering the wide experience gap between players it’s very easy for someone like John Choi who could wipe any of us off the floor in HD Remix for the next 10 years can just lose to players using characters he’s just not had real experience against. I would imagine John Choi’s Ryu will be more of a threat at this year’s Evo since he will have had a better understanding of the mechanics and matchups compared to 2009 John Choi who lost in every other major to things he probably wouldn’t have lost to with more game time.
nice to see a kof in there
DevilJin, stop making sense.
… what??? 
:rolleyes:
good post :tup:
the problem is not with the overall winner. the problem is with really bad matchups and that the Top8 might not reflect the best players.
anyway… SBO has mostly team tournaments this year, so i guess it shouldn’t matter so much.
people here seem to think sbo is like evo where the winners are the undisputed best players of the field but i dont think its like that. it’s important to bear in mind the japanese have a lot more tournies so the randomness of single elim doesnt matter so much because you can see over time who is capable of consistently placing high, even if they get randomed out of a few tournies.
sbo seems like it’s a big deal more because it’s a flashy event and there’s prize money and it brings together players from all across japan, not necessarily because the required skill level is higher than any other big tourney. i mean do you see gosho/kyabetsu getting huge props for winning sf4 last year? someone (fudo i think?) even said that kyabetsu isnt a great player, lol.
that said as someone who’s never been to sbo i could be totally wrong : - )
Best post in the thread.
That’s more evident of SFIV being a garbage game than SBO letting ‘less than great’ players win the tournament due to format limitations. You don’t see anything less than the most absolute elite level of play for games like GG, 3S, ST, or VF, because those games are so tremendously difficult to play and succeed at the most elite levels. So the ‘less than great’ players are eliminated far early in the tournament. So yeah, it’s not surprising to see lesser known SFIV players make it further SBO, compared to lesser known players in other games.
First, you should take comments from Japanese about how x player isnt that great with a grain of salt. Rikimaru, this past SBO 3s champion, told me Kuroda isn’t that great.
Second, whatever the reason, relatively unknown players taking SF4 tournies over established champions happens here in socal too, in double elim tournaments no less.