I don’t know about all that, way more characters need perfection verse Akuma than Akuma needs verse them.
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Why? Nobody is really complaining about Makoto AFAIK (except for a friend of mine… but even he’s not being that vocal about it lol). I don’t think they’re gonna touch her.
I wanna see whatever location test cabs they’re putting out already, so I can see what direction this is going in.
Also, to OP… I was rooting for Latif, not Poongko. I don’t care about someone’s standing on the tier list when I watch high-level play.[/COLOR][/FONT]
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Apparently not…
Well there you have it! Akuma and Gouken are on the same level and T.Hawk and Guy and Gen are better then both!
I feel for you bro, I really do.
How much health and stun does Akuma have in your version of the game where every character is capable of winning a major?
How the heck were Fuerte’s nerfs a good start? While I think he could use buffs in other areas, that’s not his main problem. His problem is that every dash followup is high risk : low reward.
You CAN zone with Fuerte in a way similar to Viper’s Burning Kick .Fuerte’s stuff can be used in all sorts of ways, yet none of them are safe. And there’s more than just jumping to counter Fuerte. Jumping can put you in soft knockdown state via Tostada or get air grabbed or Guac’d with a hard knock down. Every single of his attacks has at least one weakness.
It seems you don’t know a whole lot about this character.
nothing personal against you, but can people please stop lumping gen into the useless category. he’s good in this one. it shows ignorance
Who said anything about winning majors? Much less everyone being able to win a major? God damn if obvious sarcasm isn’t obvious you and I just will never get along.
Actually now I’m just laughing cause you think you played perfect everytime you win and if you lost it’s only cause you can’t win without anything less then perfect. Haha.
I’m worried because I have no idea what the fuck Capcom’s balancing process is. Nerfs and buffs seem to get tossed around randomly at times.
I am confused now. What was this post about?
Again, who said anything about Akuma to begin with? You just brought him in and started putting words in my mouth.
I was talking about Fei/Yun/Viper being chosen cause they are clearly better once player skill has cancelled itself out at the top levels.
You reply saying that the developers don’t want everyone to be good at everything (which I didn’t say) and then say there is a character that is GOOD AT EVERYTHING and then say it requires PERFECTION to play him. Perfect implies no mistakes, I’m pretty sure you can make a mistake as Akuma and live.
Then you linked me a post to some Japanese shit where Akuma is not represented as if that is proof of something as 20+ characters are not represented. Still not sure what you were trying to prove since Tokida was using Akuma in top 8 at Evo.
Now you’re linking back to a post that has shit all to do with whatever point you are trying to make.
If you think you are confused, imagine me.
not my fault you can’t block seismo’s.
also twelve has a move like viper. inb4 twelve is ass tier so it doesn’t count. please learn your match ups and stop shouting broken. Unless you play Gen or some other ass tier character you have nothing to complain about. it just seems you have either a lack of match-up knowledge or poor execution skills if you’re having having to bitch SO MUCH about Viper and Fei.
dammit. here we go again.
…what are we even talking about now?
I think they are getting their Super Gen confused with AE Gen.
yeah, its ok. if this version was going to be out any longer, people would eventually find out he’s a real character again
heres hoping he gets helped out enough to keep up to par with whatever everyone else gets
Make Gen’s Crane U1 and Mantis U2 actually not complete shit.
I view Street Fighter 4 as a game in which characters exist almost in isolation from each other. Ideally each character is given tools/options that differentiate them from each other; in other words each character is unique or represents a character design philosophy/concept. The players get the game, choose a character for whatever reason, play the game, attempt to maximize what they perceive their character’s strengths to be as well as their own personal skill in order to win. It’s entirely possible that the players use the characters in a way that the developers did not intend but still have success anyways; there is nothing wrong with that. The uniqueness of the characters, and the attempt of the players to maximize it, results in an interesting game. We can all choose whatever character we want, play however we want, and at the end of the day the best player wins.
I am fine with the fact that Character X ends up being better than Character Y because of a combination of character design and player skill. It’s interesting to me too see if the player using Character Y can find something to reverse the way that the interaction between the two characters occurs. If the player using Character Y feels like he/she has reached a maximum, maybe it’s time to try another option…it isn’t time to start the “buffs/nerfs” extravaganza. Let the players decide how the game goes; don’t ask the devs to save us from the perceived top-tier reign of terror.
The difficulty that I am having with the balance police is to understand how you intend to achieve the balance that you desire without eliminating the uniqueness. “Gouken’s wakeup is pretty free, OK, we have to give him better wakeup options in order for the game to be balanced…”. I don’t want that; maybe you don’t either. Can you achieve balance without doing that (turning every character into an “Akuma”) or introducing a game mechanic that is a true universal counter (i.e. parry)?
Instead of adding new tools to achieve balance you could take the tools each character already has and just make them better. “Gouken’s zoning isn’t good enough we have to make it better…How can we do that?..Change the frame data and hitboxes so that it is easier to zone with him…Whoops it’s too easy now, we have to nerf him, shit”…Does this approach to redesign really just represent a lowering of the skill necessary to use the character?
In theory Akuma represents the perfect character. The price that you pay for using him is that you play really well or you lose. This character is fascinating to me. I want this character concept to continue to exist (whether or not it’s Akuma or someone else I don’t care). Give one character everything but make it really hard to actually achieve it. Where does this character belong in your perfectly balanced version of the game?
What do you have to say to people who like using Dan for no reason other than that he is supposed to be terrible? Where does he exist in your game?
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Agree whole-heartedly.
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We do disagree here though, because I don’t consider character skill to be a factor in balancing a character. Seth has said that Capcom has a secret way of designing characters. If I were to guess I would imagine it’s something like an RPG where if a character has 5 points for offense, that only leaves 5 points for defense, reversals, etc. Now, that is way simplified to what the actual process is, but I do believe they use some sort of system to limit the abilities of the characters where they can only have so many strong priorities and pokes, etc. The only problem, as someone mentioned, is that when you work on a project a long time with a lot of people, you get a little blinded by how strong somethings will turn out to be. I also don’t believe any character should ever hit a “wall” where their abilities out-grow their characters. That is the exact problem that needs to be addressed. Most fighting fans think it’s OK to do whatever you can to win and that’s why character balance is so essential for the developer to perfect. Without it, the fighting genre grows stale and stops being interesting to everything but the die-hards.
A lot of people may say 3S is ‘perfect’ but see how many players played the whole ten years. A lot of people came in 2005 or later after a lot of initial players dropped out, because, frankly, it’s boring to watch the same top-tier fighters duke it out (I know the tier wasn’t established in the beginning but you get my point.) over and over for a decade. If the tier for AE today was the same as next year the scene would lose some audience ever year until the game got a little change to spice things up again. Could you imagine if we were still watching Sagat v Sagat matches at every final?
3 Akuma has all the tools, a “Jack of All trades” and his health represents it. But he does have some unfair advantages as well, and those are problems. Believe it or not, I love Hakan (despite the bashing I gave him throughout the post) I think he’s got a lot of cool tricks and is under-used by a lot of people. But when I fight an Akuma, the problem arrives when he goes into his demon flip vortex.
Hakan can’t dash out without oil, reversal or slide away. And while he has U2, that forces you to play with a “counter-pick” which, ideally, shouldn’t be mandatory with either characters or Ultra in any game. You can’t say it’s a balanced fighter when one player has to switch his prefered tools to meet the match because his character doesn’t have any other options available. I should be able to form my own style with the Ultra I prefer.
ANYWAY … We can focus and block against the vortex and that’s it. It becomes a horrible problem because the character has literally nothing to get out. Even when you block right Hakan’s still screwed because Akuma’s up close priority beats Hakan’s (again, not oiled). So now Akuma got an easy vortex, that leads to another vortex or a zone that heavily favors him. That would be fine if it was a situation that took work to initialize instead of just a sweep. That’s not a skill problem, that’s an oversight. So do you buff Hakan or nerf the Vortex? Doesn’t matter as long as the developers address their oversight.
Do I think the SFIV series is one of the most balanced fighters of all time? I do, but little holes like my example keep the game from being completely respected by the larger video game population and the eSports community. We are close and perfecting our best game (in most non-fighters eyes at least) over the next few years is really going to open a lot of opportunities for people and prove this game is worth every cent for the years of playing you can get out of it. We’re really close.
- Dan can follow all the examples in my post and still be thought terrible by a lot of people because of his animations. Characters like Dan will always be in SFIV because a lot of people want to play Goofy characters like Dan or Hakan. People like me. The problem is, whether I win or lose with Hakan, people boot me, because they don’t want their pride hurt by losing to “low tier”. But even if Dan and Hakan were “B” tier, I would still get booted because people just think he looks dumb and they don’t want to lose to dumb shit. Basically, they’ll always have a place in my game because, I’m a low-tier whore. I played Honda/Vega in SFIV, Honda/Gen/Hakan ever since.
And it seems you just repeated a lot of the points in my argument. And then had the same opinion I expressed in the post.
what he’s got is plenty good enough. ppl are sleeping on Gen. he’s a footsie monster with some pretty retarded oki setups that lead back into themselves, like Viper except not as safe.